Sparky16 Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 I've been asking myself this ever since my dog, Spooky, died. He was a 17 year old miniture poodle, (17 and 1/2 really) who lived a wonderfully spoiled life. He was smart, quick, active and had a metabolisim anyone would die for! Now granted it's only been 3 months since but I'm asking the questions now and frankly I'd love an opinion. I'm looking for a dog that will do obediance trials and Agility or flyball. I don't have sheep where I live in my sub-urban home, but the dog wouldn't be short of work (or a places to run, you'll see why.) I have 6 people in my family. 3 of whom are ill, 2 who work (plus 1 does rugby) so they are almost never home and then there is just me to take care of the 3 and help them. My mother has MS, so everything is hard for her to do. My Gramma has a heart condition and bending down or doing a simple chore will tirer her out, and my grandfather, even though he has diabeties, has become a bump on a log ever since HIS dog died a year prior! That's not a good thing when you have that, he just sits there and eats and is all sad, and his health is just dropping I need a dog that will get him out again! (Ha, my family is nothing without a dog) Anyway, when they call me to do something, it gets annoying especially when I'm studying for finals and the tasks are so simple! I'm no dummy when it comes to service dogs, their training and what they are capable of, (I use to train dogs myself before I moved) and my mom could get one if she really needs to (and she does) but therein lies the problem. Service dogs are BIG dogs! I love goldens and labs as much as the next person but our house wouldn't be able to fit a large dog like that. We can comfortably fit a medium dog and a border can still reach a light switch! Plus I know borders are happiest when they are working and there would be no shortage of tasks for her as a special needs dog. In fact, if all goes as planned this dog will be wearing a vest when she's walking down the street. As for the obediance, agility or flyball, well that is me. Before I moved I was training nieghbors dogs to do the neatest things (right up to playing soccer and basketball with the nighborhood kids) and it wasn't hard, and it was a ton of fun. I'd go everywhere and always have a dog with me. The dogs were my reason for getting out of the house and facing the new day (I had sever depressioon back then) and it always made things better. My talents with dogs got me friends and I was so happy. By the time we moved my own dog was on his last legs, he couldn't do what he used to and he couldn't keep up with me. With all my friends ditching me back in my old hometown (even though I only moved an hour away) and with me having no friends up here (no matter how hard I try) I slipped back into my depression (Which got worse after a recent car crash I was in - I walked away) and just became a bump on a log once more with no reason to go out and am getting all that weight I lost when I was with the dogs, back again. So to sum up what I'm looking for in a dog is this. 1. A dog that will go out and do obediance and agility with me and get me off this computer and out of the house and active once more. 2. A dog that can perform special needs tasks quickly and efficiently for the sick in the house. 3. One that can be a companion to both myself and my papa. Living space is fine, we have more than enough room for a border collie, and there is this HUGE park right across the street. I'm not kidding it is literally ACROSS the street! and there is always someone home. I know i said I'm a uni student but my classes are only 1&1/2 to 3 hours long and I have at max 3 classes a week, and I always take the summer off, so I have more than enugh time to spend with pup. Now that we don't have a dog the rest of my time is spent at home helping my family and being on the computer. I'm not asking the dog to be super dog, just a really good friend that could help me out. Everything, right down to feeding, grooming and training would fall on me but I'm down with that. I miss it with a passion. I was thinking of a border because I know they are active dogs and love to work hard. They are smart, and from what I've heard through the grape vine, very good companions that are always ready and willing to please. Do you think the border collie is a good choice for me? :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 I'm sorry to hear about Spooky. It sounds like he was a great friend for you. I know I would feel lost with my dog. I think a Border Collie could fit well with your family. There certainly would be no shortage of "work"! One suggestion I would have is to check into a young adult from a BC rescue group. That way they could match you with a dog that would fit your bill, so to speak. You also could get into the training right away. Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSnappy Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 Failing grandparents are not people who need a high energy herding dog running around their house. Please. No more kids/grandkids getting baby border collies for the senior folks/ to live with senior folks. Seriously, we get so many pups/young adults in from these situations. Older, frailer people do NOT appreciate BCs bouncing around. Also, you sound awfully busy. You have ailing older folks to care for, classes etc. - you may not have the time you think you do for an active dog. Lastly, I do not believe border collies should be a catalyst for getting people out to do things - people who already like to be out doing things tend to be the best for these dogs. I can't tell you by your single post whether a BC would be right for you or not, but I'm not sure your reasons for getting a border collie are the sound, necessarily. I think a lot of breeds would be better suited to your situation as you describe it. This is JMO. RDM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigD Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 Agree with RDM - getting a dog to GET the folks out and moving is NOT a good idea. I've got one of those "ideas" sitting at my feet right now. He was bought for the "family" to get out more with the new baby. Ended up spending his first 2 years growing up on a balcony because he pee'd on the computer when he was a puppy. (gasp!) My in-laws also got a Border Collie after they lost their other Border Collie. They needed that "dog" in their life and the "dog" makes them go out and exercise. Well, she's now an obsessed nut-case that is completely forgotten about, fat and horribly behaved. Starving for attention which they think they can fill with more food. ...sigh... If you had a poodle for 17 years I'd go that route if you feel you MUST have another dog. Poodles are fine agility dogs, VERY smart and have easier to control hair/fur. I've owned both myslef and found the poodle to be much less obsessed with things. In any case, going the route of a teen ager rescue will be the best for you - no potty training and you can see the "final" size already. My resuce boy is 23" at the shoulders and has more coat than you could ever imagine. He's 50lbs, big, fast and a lot quicker than any lab. I can make pillows from the amount of hair he drops DAILY when he's shedding. AUGHGHGHG!!! Denise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miztiki Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 Welcome to the BC boards! Some good points were brought up that you will have to seriously consider, but also keep in mind that I was told that a BC would not be a good fit for me when I first joined either. We can't tell you if a BC is right for you or not. We can only point out potential problems and offer suggestions and give you ideas to consider. You mentioned several things you would like in a dog. Perhaps it would be more helpful if a dog told you what his needs would be. Then you would be better able to make a decision. BC's are very intelligent. They need mentally challenging things to stimulate that great brain of theirs. BC's who are not sufficiently stimulated can literally go crazy with obsessive-compulsive disorders and devolop a whole range of behavioral problems. BC's are high energy dogs too. Generally speaking, they will not exercise themselves. If you let them outside to your 10 acre yard they will likely stand at the door waiting for you. If they do exercise themselves, it's probably going to be something you won't like, such as digging, fence fighting, chasing animals, etc. They need the opportunity to run, run, run on a regular basis. Ten mile walks are nothing for many BC's. The energy level can often be determined by their breeding lines. Which reminds me, be sure to read the "READ THIS FIRST" thread. We support the breeding of working BC's here, not AKC or sport dogs. BC's are social animals and generally do not do well unless they belong to their human "pack". A close relationship with your BC is important. Dominant BC's need strong leadership. Because they are so smart, they can manipulate a weak leader. If you're a pushover type then it would be a good idea to get an older BC whose personality is known. BC's can be sensitive to several things such as motion and sound. They are herding dogs and may or may not do well with the movement of other dogs, cats, livestock, cars, wheelchairs, kids, mowers, etc. Training plays a big factor here. Sound sensitivity (thunder, vacuums, mowers, trains - even from a distance, etc.) is also heavily influenced by good training and an understanding of canine behavior. That's another thing. The best BC owners understand canine behavior and are able to read their dog's unspoken language and respond accordingly. BC's can be "soft" dogs. For many, it takes no more than a look or soft disapproving tone to have them flopping on their bellies in submission (and sometimes even peeing!). That's the extreme end but generally speaking, BC's are soft dogs and do poorly with harsh corrections and loud voices. Thankfully, many BC's want to please their owner, so that helps! That should get you started. Where you choose to get your dog is something you'll want to put alot of thought into. In your situation I would recommend an older puppy or dog whose personality is known. How well a BC would fit into your life depends most on how much time and effort you are willing to put into the relationship. If you can provide a BC with the needs listed above, and keep the other people in your life from doing things that will undermine the work you've put in, then you can make it work. They live relatively long lives and are generally healthy animals. Some like to be pet and get attention, and some are more business oriented. Some will bark and some won't. Some shed alot and some don't. Some are smarter, some are higher energy, some are softer, etc. I hope this helps a bit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky16 Posted March 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 Ahh don't get me wrong. I have so much free time on my hands it isn't funny. Maybe I worded it wong when I said I needed an excuse to get out of the house. I honestly don't know how to word it really, but companionship is a biggy. I just have sooooo much time on my hands it's really not even funny. Tomorrow I'm going to attend an agility meeting, ask around. I know everyone is going to say their dog is the best. and as I said, none of the dog's care would fall on my grandparents, it is all me cause it would essentially be my dog. I've been reseaching this dog long before I've been asking here. Spooky was still alive when I started, and I've handled collies before so I know what to expect, but I just like other's opinons. A rescue dog will definatly be looked into. I just hope I can get the right answers to my questions and really determine if it will be the dog I'm gonna get. It's so sad that people give their dogs up. I'd never do that. when you get a pet it's like looking after a child for years! That really burns me up when people do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caroline Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 I think a poodle from rescue would work out great. Less hair to clean up and better suited temperment for the life you describe. It is possible a mix in rescue would work well, many dogs can be trained to do simple helping tasks, you don't need a brillant dog for that. You need a dependable dog. Perhaps a midsize rescue dog with a good temperment. Lots of good dogs in rescues in the lower mainland and Washington state. I know folks in Abbotsford! caroline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky16 Posted April 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 Really? I may know them! LOL! I just talked to my mother. she wants to get a toy poodle. So I guess I'm getting a dog for myself. I won't be getting one till next year though till after I graduate. I wanna start a doggy babysitting service, Yes I love mutts that much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 You might want to consider a Border Collie mix from a rescue or shelter, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiga's_mom Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 That was going to be my suggestion as well. I was looking for a dog and all I knew is that I wanted one that was fairly active, smart, loving and not too big. I didn't know anything about BC's before I started looking. I found Tiga on petfinder when he was about 2 and 1/2 months old. He's a BC mix, not 100% sure what he's mixed with, but we think either Lab or Nova Scotia Duck Toller. He's exactly what I was looking for. He is more active then I was expecting, but he gets lots of stimulation, both mental and physical. You do need to have a lot of time, they are very demanding. I can only imagine what a non-mixed BC is like. That being said, if I were ever to get another dog, I would definitely get another BC or BC mix from a shelter. I'm a lot more educated about them now. Only you can decide what kind of dog is right for you. It's not a decision to be made lightly and it's obvious that you know that. Good luck with whatever you decide and know that the people here are very helpful and knowledgable. They've helped me out a lot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smileyzookie Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 Well, I wanted a dog to get me out the house. I didnt really care what dog,just a medium sized one. I was in an accident a few years ago, and I needed something to encourage me to get out. And I was blessed SO much with my BC mix Riven. We got her from the Humane Society a few months ago and she is 1 year or so old. And, you know what contrary to what others have said, she has gotten me out. I go out with her a lot. I take great pride in her training and as soon as her obedience training is over, her agility training starts. I do believe if you find a BC mix, the possiblity of having what your wanting is good. But I honestly dont think full BC would be good for me, as I cant keep up with the energy just yet. I know I talk a lot, I just wanted to tell my story, maybe it will help you. lol One more thing, if all else fails listen to Miztiki. Thats my philosphy lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorri the Priest Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 No doubt, I'll get jumped on for this! When I acquired my two BCs, I was fit enough to get out and about with them (often 10 miles a day), and they were fine. Now, I'm knackered with arthritis and diabetes and can barely shuffle for 10 yards. My Boys seem to have accepted this, and have settled down to being good "house dogs", happy enough to slob out beside the fire. Not the usual mental picture of the nuclear-powered Border Collie! They still have a tendency to go ballistic when I appear in the morning, and that could be a problem if someone in your family has a mobility problem (20+ kilograms of "helloing" collie can provide quite a lot of impact!). Having said that, I've found that they adapt to what's available, even in a home which may not appear, at first sight, to be ideal. It's just unfortunate that my circumstances changed after their arrival. They are so good now that I couldn't face parting with them. Snorri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smileyzookie Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 Snorri, I liked how you stated "adapt to whats available". Thats exactly how Riven is. If I wanna go be crazy, and play.. she's all for it. If I wanna sleep, she's right there to sleep with me. And, Im sure you're dogs would hate parting with you as much as you do them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSnappy Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 Not all dogs "adapt to what's available" though. If this were as easy as you make it sound, we would not get so many high energy out of control BCs in rescue. The fact is, many young dogs need / require much more than people do/can/are willing to offer and the dogs do not adapt well at all. They are out of control until they are moved to an environment where their needs ARE met. Agility and flyball etc. are fun for dog and human - they are also not daily activities. And I have to reiterate that a young border collie in a house with older, frail people can be a very bad match. I am a young spry person and I get knocked over, banged into and tripped up by some of the younger, enthusiastic dogs I have in foster care. I cannot imagine how a senior person would manage ... and I know many do not, because they surrender them to us! My point here is, just because one family member thinks they want a BC does not mean it's the right fot for the household. "Sparky" is in her very early 20s and lives in a home full of adults with health issues. She might do better to wait and get a border collie when she has only her own needs to worry about, and when her home environment might be more conducive to the energy of a BC pup. Again, this is just my 2 cents. I don't know this person and I'm basing this just on what she's written so far. But ... I tend to not adopt dogs to people in their early 20s with a few exceptions - especially not ones who live with their parents. This is such a recipe for getting the dog back in a few years as I've seen so many times. So I am reluctant to adopt to people in this situation anyway, which could easily bias my opinion here. RDM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smileyzookie Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 Snappy I can see your point, and it is a valid one. I was simply stating that Riven was one of those dogs that did adapt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorri the Priest Posted April 2, 2006 Report Share Posted April 2, 2006 RDM, I accept your point, but I'm only talking from my own personal experience (which is the best anyone can do, really ). My own two Boys have adapted to a more sedentary lifestyle, as did my first-ever BC. This doesn't mean that they are not keen on going to a clear area to do "zoomies" (they love that!), but, when the opportunity is not presented, they are happy enough to laze about without getting cabin fever. Not all BCs will settle to this, perhaps, but, so far, I have had three out of three do so, which is 100% of the BCs I have had. Snorri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meg's mum Posted April 2, 2006 Report Share Posted April 2, 2006 I've chewed over this a little while. I've had three BC's in my life. The first rescue had a had a hard life, and needed a quiet gentle life, which our famiy with two kids, a cat and a guinea pig were glad to provide her. The second was a ball of fire rescue that I, in my twenties, cared for until my apartment dwelling, upbeat but not 'athletic' mother was able to care for her. Did her life exhaust its potential? Whose to know. Was she happy? She certainly seemed so. Did she ever express boredom by acting out? Once or twice. This little puppy of mine hasn't even revealed her adult needs and personality to me. Do I wonder if I am doing the right thing for her? Everyday. Do I worry incessantly about my ability to handle 'what may come?' A little. What happens if I lose my job, what happens if I become ill, what happens if we are NEVER able to housebreak her? What happens if she eats a bad toad or mole, or the black bears and cougars get her? If you go to a Border Collie Rescue and speak with them, they will help you evaluate your lifestyle and your choices, against the range of BC's and BC mixes that they are accostomed to seeing. If they think that you are a good match, their judgement will be worth a lot more than ours. In fact.....If you really do have a lot of time Sparky...perhaps you can do rescue work for a little while. Given your objectives, I think that might be just the thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky16 Posted April 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 tis all good advice, unforuntely snappy, I'll never be moving out of my home. Vancouver B.C. is a VERY expensive place to live in and I don't have to pay for food, rent and schooling when living with my family. Mom's MS will never go away, she'll always have health problems on top of helth problems, that is obvious to me and you to, I'm sure. I don't plan to get a dog till I graduate, I'm 3rd year going into my 4th come this fall (YAY ME!). anyway, Snorri I can totally sympathize with you. My gramma and mom have it. I don't know what your options are for getting a scooter to get out and about but if you do get one, prepare for a fight! It doesn't matter what kinda dog you have, they ALL love to sit between your legs and go for a ride! XD It's so common where I live. There was a lady with a Golden Retiever that does that. She uses a scooter to get around and her dog CRIES if he can't go on with her. I broke out laughing cause that's what Spooky, my poodle used to do. Memories. Anyway I went to some trials yesterday and asked around and even got to handle a few dogs! It was soooooo cool! I asked them what it was like, their personal experiences and it's amazing at all the differnt responces I got. none where the same! I took up an interest the english springer spaniel as well when I was there, but borders are my fav hands down. I have tons of time to check out the options and evaluate and keep asking. I'm not leaving this board though cause these dogs are one of my favs LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dal & Mad's Mom Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 As a nurse the one downfall I see to having a real young border is they will trip you. I'm used to it because I never trained it out of my old dog but, it's a surprise when I'm walking to have someone suddenly circle near my knees. Otherwise I wish you the best of luck. They are great companions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky16 Posted April 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 hehehe yeah they are a bit like cat's in dogs clothing. My own cat ( the evil lil beast from heck) is like that sometimes. WHen she's having a friendly moments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 Snorri, if I remember correctly, your dogs are both advanced in age. Am I correct? For Sparky, I have found that my dogs (or at least, one of them) are becoming much more "normal" (for dogs) in terms of energy level as they age. My first Border Collie, Solo, is now six, almost seven, and while he still has plenty of energy it is much more tempered and context-driven than it was when he was an adolescent of 16 months. Had he been a teenager while I was finishing school it would have been a nightmare. As it was, he did adapt (I was finishing a PhD and my dogs went wanting for a LOT of the stuff they were used to getting -- attention, exercise, training) but neither of us were happy about it, and we are both grateful that it was only a temporary situation for us. My other Border Collie, Fly, on the other hand -- she is about six months older than Solo and became much harder to manage on my limited schedule -- she is naturally higher energy than Solo is and requires a lot more exercise. There were points that she became so difficult to live with (not in terms of bad habits; just in terms of general frenzy) that I wanted to kill her. There is a lot of variation in terms of energy level in Border Collies. And it should be noted that of my two dogs, Fly is the one with the totally sound temperament. My dogs are in a different predicament now in that I have a regular job rather than the flexible schedule of a student. They had adapted well to this but like I said, they are both mature. I also spend a LOT of time before and after work with my dogs so they are still getting exercise and attention every single day. My feeling is that if you are already worried about your schedule and talking about how a Border Collie can "adapt" to a schedule that is less than ideal for a Border Collie, then it might perhaps make more sense to look at another breed in the first place. They are functionally not that much smaller than retrievers (my male weighs almost 50 pounds -- the size difference is negligible) and I think it is almost nonsensical to talk about a house having enough space for a Border Collie but not a Lab. They are far more reactive than the average Lab. I see a dog who is banned from most of the house and restricted in its interactions with the frailer family members and that really is not such a great life for the dog. A smaller, quieter dog would fit better into this situation, and still be able to do obedience, agility, and flyball too. Reading the original post I worry that Sparky is expecting too much of ANY dog, much less a Border Collie -- to fulfill too many roles and fill too many holes in her life. It is true that a dog CAN do all of these things for a person, but I also think that it is not fair to EXPECT a dog to do all of these things. I absolutely would not even think about getting a puppy in this situation. There are probably Border Collies that would work in this situation, but for things to work the dog should already be mature and of a known temperament and energy level. A dog past the age of four would probably be best since it should mostly (unless it is like Fly) be past all the puppy craziness. It's a tough situation. I feel for you but I can't really recommend a Border Collie in this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmy4ever Posted November 25, 2007 Report Share Posted November 25, 2007 I have had a border collie before, and now I have an aussie. So, I had experience with herding dogs. Theese breeds, well at least most, demand for attention. They will bond with their owner as much as possible and will want to be played with 24/7. Keep that in mind. Both of my dogs were outside dogs and were never alowed to come in the house. Theese dogs also need tons of excersice. Even a one mile jog will not satisfy them, (for my dog, even a two mile jog won't satisfy her.) But, of course, theese dogs have an incredibly loyal side. Once I was lying down outside and Gemmy, my aussie, came trotting over to me with a bone, and layed down on my stomach. I was in heaven at that moment. Theese breeds are extremely sweet and give TONS of doggy kisses when they can. Of course, they may nip at your feet, but all you have to do is say a firm "NO" and push them slightly to make them get rid of the habbit. My aussie NEVER bites my heels anymore. she used too, but doesn't any more. They are incredibly intelligent. My border collie wasn't that smart, but my aussie is VERY smart. (My bc wasn't because I never taught her. I was young!) My aussie knows sit, shake, down, up, off, play dead, rollover, jump, heel, jump over hurdle, and drop it. BC's and Aussies are very intelligent. So, if you are ready for theese breeds and can handle their sweet side, and playful side... GO 4 IT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted November 25, 2007 Report Share Posted November 25, 2007 I think all the reasons stated here are quite valid, pro's and con's. IMO if you get hooked up with some rescue org's and patiently wait for the right adult rescue, it'd be the perfect addition for your "needy"(no insult intended) family. I say adult as you could fore go the puppy stages where it might be a danger for your senior family members and would be the perfect age to start training for special needs tasks. Also the right age to start agility, and ob training with you. I certainly understand the idea behind having a dog help motivate you into activity, it doesn't work for the person who doesn't want to be active but they sure can work for the ones that just need some gentle or not so gentle nudging. My first one did that for me, and they've continued to do that right down the line. There are dogs out there that would never suit your needs but there are just as many dogs out there that can. I don't see a BC being a bad match, it's waiting for the right one to come along. I really don't think a sport bred BC would be a good choice so be careful when you're checking with the people who are out there only doing agility, flyball, or strict compitition type stuff. Some of those people are breeding for the "on" button but more than likely they haven't checked out the "off" button. Since you don't need superb working ability for livestock, the right rescue would be perfect! Just my 2 cents and good luck on your journey. You sound like a wonderful caring daughter, (or son ). Kristen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anda Posted November 25, 2007 Report Share Posted November 25, 2007 Uhhh... this is a thread more than 1.5 years old..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SweetJordan Posted November 25, 2007 Report Share Posted November 25, 2007 I got rid of my post. No point really. I hadn't even noticed. I saw new responses and just assumed. Well you know what they say when you assume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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