first Open runs

[SoloRiver]

Well, so Fly and I moved up to Open this weekend.

 

In two runs, Fly found her sheep a total of zero times. There's nothing like doing the walk of shame twice in one weekend.

 

Yeah yeah, I know, it's happened to everyone and all that, but it's still not that much fun being the "there but for the grace of God" team at one trial, much less two in a row.

 

The good thing is that this weekend made it clear to me that while I was worrying so much about Fly's close work, practicing what I thought we'd need for the shed, I managed to let her outrun go totally to hell. This is a classically good outrunning dog, or at least she used to be (in the past she's done these distances over weird terrain with no trouble), so I think I can fix it. She's never been terrific at looking for sheep, but I'm sure there are things we can do to fix this as well that I obviously haven't been doing.

 

Open certainly is a different can of worms than the novice classes are. I knew that going in, but it's really different when you actually hit that wall, especially after kinda getting used to being the best swimmers in the kiddie pool. (We have won and placed in our share of novice classes. At one trial, I even won the "Most Promising Young Handler" award. Perhaps I should have the crook they gave me repainted to say, "Most Disappointing Formerly Promising Young[ish] Handler.")

 

The most fun part is feeling like, not only did we wreck, but we wasted everyone's time. I felt like I should apologize to the judge, to the setout people, to everyone who had to witness it... in novice classes you expect wrecks. In Open, you're supposed to know what you're doing.

 

I guess it could have been worse. Fly could have taken a sheep down and started eating it. Except that she would never do that. (Then again, I never thought she'd have trouble finding her sheep either.) Yeah, killing and eating one probably would have been worse. Then again, if she managed to do that it would mean she at least found them.

 

I'm gonna go hug my dogs and mope now.

[kelpiegirl]

Aw jeez Melanie- poor Fly. How were the sheep set? Did she go in thinking they were somewhere and they weren't? I wonder if it is really taboo, if you could have on her second run, asked the judge if you could at least show her where they were and just have her fetch them. I know that is probably horribly wrong in terms of trialing, but I believe if it all falls to he** it would be good if we could end on a good note....

Let it go- I am sure she has- now find someone with a similar field, and work on that. She is a very nice dog, and you two are still a good team.

 

 

Well, so Fly and I moved up to Open this weekend.

 

In two runs, Fly found her sheep a total of zero times. There's nothing like doing the walk of shame twice in one weekend.

 

Yeah yeah, I know, it's happened to everyone and all that, but it's still not that much fun being the "there but for the grace of God" team at one trial, much less two in a row.

 

The good thing is that this weekend made it clear to me that while I was worrying so much about Fly's close work, practicing what I thought we'd need for the shed, I managed to let her outrun go totally to hell. This is a classically good outrunning dog, or at least she used to be (in the past she's done these distances over weird terrain with no trouble), so I think I can fix it. She's never been terrific at looking for sheep, but I'm sure there are things we can do to fix this as well that I obviously haven't been doing.

 

Open certainly is a different can of worms than the novice classes are. I knew that going in, but it's really different when you actually hit that wall, especially after kinda getting used to being the best swimmers in the kiddie pool. (We have won and placed in our share of novice classes. At one trial, I even won the "Most Promising Young Handler" award. Perhaps I should have the crook they gave me repainted to say, "Most Disappointing Formerly Promising Young[ish] Handler.")

 

The most fun part is feeling like, not only did we wreck, but we wasted everyone's time. I felt like I should apologize to the judge, to the setout people, to everyone who had to witness it... in novice classes you expect wrecks. In Open, you're supposed to know what you're doing.

 

I guess it could have been worse. Fly could have taken a sheep down and started eating it. Except that she would never do that. (Then again, I never thought she'd have trouble finding her sheep either.) Yeah, killing and eating one probably would have been worse. Then again, if she managed to do that it would mean she at least found them.

 

I'm gonna go hug my dogs and mope now.

[Little Bo Boop]

Ahhh, sorry you had a bad weekend, I know the feeling but you know what, it might not be as bad as you think. I know when I ran Liz in Nursery a few weeks ago, I thought we really stunk up the place ;-) and that everybody else did SO much better than us...but then I saw the scores and we didn't do all that bad, or rather other folks were having trouble as well.

If I were you I'd be pretty proud that I'd moved up to Open. You don't have sheep, you don't get to practice or work that much...you pretty much just have to show up and run right? I'd be pretty freaked if I had to run a dog under those conditions! So just walk it off ;-) and start getting ready for the next trial :-)

 

Betty

[juliepoudrier]

Melanie,

I know it was disappointing (and yes, we have all been there, and the walk of shame ain't the walk of shame till you're at the finals riding the red mule with Beverly Lambert to go get your dog from the top--oops! that's not very uplifting is it?), but it was your *first* open trial. No one expects you to go out and be a star right off the bat. I expect that once you go back and fix the outrun issue, you'll be just fine.

 

J.

[bcollie]

Melanie-

I have been in Open for a few years and went to a trial this weekend that we won one day of last year and this year got 4 no scores so don't feel too bad. My young dog gripped out both days and my main Open dog (big outrunner) missed his sheep entirely on the big, vast hills with no fences for miles. I couldn't feel too bad about it as Patrick Shannahan and Riggs had the same problem, going too big and not finding the sheep. It happens to all of us and you just look forward to the next trial. That and go home and train on the holes.

[cgt]

Melanie - quit your whining and take your lumps like the rest of us.

 

Every time I bring home a check I get depressed because I know that

the humble pie is being baked at the next trial. I just got back from a

trial where the best thing that happened to me was I got a flat tire.

 

One of my great pleasures in life is to get some of the Heavy Hitters to

reveal their most humiliating moments. So far, they ALL seem to have

a good supply of stories.

 

C'mon everyone, share your pain - let's hear your most humiliating moments

in Open.

 

I would start things off but, frankly, I already spend quite a bit of money touring

the country flaunting my embarrassing performances, so I feel I have already

made my contribution.

 

charlie

[Lana]

I have too many most embarrassing to count but my newest and most likely not last is….At this years sheep finals I had a lovely run going until I drove the fetch gates. I wanted to puke! This past weekend I went out bright and early to look at the course, I could not figure out where the cross drive gate was? At the handlers meeting they said that for the 2nd leg of the drive we were to drive back up the hill to the fetch gates! GASP Sick Sick I may be scared for life. Lana

[SoloRiver]

*sniffle*

 

You guys are the best.

 

These were pretty casual trials, almost like Open fun trials, so I did get to walk up the field with Fly both times and get the sheep. Our judge was a really, really cool guy. Actually, now that I think about it, I DID apologize to the judge...

 

The first trial was in Plymouth, CA and the second in Zamora, so those of you who have been there can imagine that I got my exercise on those walks (for those who haven't been there: hilly, very). I should be thankful I'm in good shape and CAN do those walks when necessary, I suppose. I hope it doesn't happen again, but well, it probably will someday.

 

Fly used to take redirects on the outrun, so when I saw her going up tight and getting sucked in by the hill on Saturday I gave her a redirect. Instead of taking it, she stopped, spun around, and faced me. I tried not to start crying right there (just kidding; not entirely) but I knew when she did that I was screwed because I was never going to be able to get her pointed in the correct direction again. I tried some more flanks but she kept taking off in the wrong direction each time, she clearly didn't have the slightest idea where the sheep were.

 

The second day we were on a different field but the sheep were set out on a hilltop big as day -- far off, but visible. I showed Fly about 15 lifts and thought she knew where they were, but when I sent her I saw her coming in again. So I stopped her, tried to redirect her, and she turned around and faced me again. While my heart dropped into my stomach, I tried her "look back" (which I'd completely forgotten about the day before) but instead of making a 180 degree turn she turned 90 degrees to her right. I tried a few more look backs but she was so turned around in her head by then that I realized it was another lost cause so we walked up again and at least got the sheep off the field.

 

Back to the drawing board. Hopefully I haven't screwed up my fancy imported sweetie pie of a dog completely beyond repair.

[blackacre]

Melanie,

It happens. Welcome! You have now been initiated into the Long Walk Association and received its top award. Well, almost. You really need to do it at the Bluegrass or Meeker or the Nationals for the ultimate prize, but, in a pinch, we'll take any walk of shame, coz Misery Loves Company.

Anyway, some stuff to try:

1. Teach your dog to "look" every time you go to the post or go send a dog for sheep in practice. I start doing this right from the beginning of training. Watch for the telltale signs so you can recognize if/when she sees them: head goes up, ears prick forward, dog gets very still, that kind of thing. It might be subtle; some never show anything but most will. And, by the way, some dogs have better eyesight than others and will be able to spot sheep at any distance; others must learn to compensate by going out until they find them.

2. Reinforce or teach the look back so you have some way of helping your dog get out there. If you are just starting to teach it, try to reserve it for looking for sheep *directly* behind the dog ie 180 degrees more or less, so you have directional control. It does no good for the dog to be casting aimlessly about in every direction. Useful in a double lift too, when how far you pull the dog around the first group before giving the look back to get the second will tell it how wide to cast going back.

3. Teach variations of the flank directing the dog back once it does look back, so it knows how big to make the cast. Hey, I can't do it, but the pros can.

4. A lot of dogs do not know how to run terrain. It's tricky and dogs need to get the experience. So try to go somewhere with hills and blind spots and practice. In my observation, the dog needs to learn to keep the image of the sheep and where they are in their mind as they go out and refer to it mentally so that they don't start coming in as soon as they lose sight of the sheep.

5. In practice, always make sure there are sheep there and never let your dog come back without sheep. Help as needed.

 

A

[cgt]

Melanie,

It happens. Welcome! You have now been initiated into the Long Walk Association and received its top award. Well, almost. You really need to do it at the Bluegrass or Meeker or the Nationals for the ultimate prize...

 

No!

I claim the ultimate prize for myself.

Until you can say you almost died - literally! - while

trying to take the long walk, you really

cannot take my prize.

 

I cannot bear to say more, but some of you may

actually have witnessed the fun I had at Fire Ridge a

couple of years ago.

 

-charlie

[amc]

Hey Charlie,

 

Did your 'almost dying' have anything to do with a trash pit?

 

[Smokjbc]

Hey Melanie,

 

I moved my dog Jane up to my first Open class a few months ago on a small course and she didn't find her sheep the first day. The reasons sound identical to your description- I did spend alot of time shedding (on the second day, she did a great shed and I was the clueless one that left too early) and took for granted that my natural outrunning dog would be fine with just a few weekends of outrun practice after about six months of not doing the distance work I should have done. The second day we found our sheep (it only took all but one of our outrun points away from us LOL) and got to the pen at least- still very ugly and with the lowest Open score but at good enough to make the drive home bearable. Of course, I haven't been able to follow that up with a better (or worse) run since circumstances have forced me to cancel the last two trials I wanted to go to but at least you know you aren't alone.

 

Charlie- did you go to the Cedar City trial? How was it? I really, really wanted to go but did major car repairs instead- hopefully they will have it again next year as it is the closest USBCHA trial ever to me .

 

 

Edited to add... Melanie- you probably didn't have the added bonus of losing someone's sheep on the setout on your second time ever of doing it at a trial. Luckily they found a real Open handler to help stupid me )

[cgt]

Hi Jaime.

 

The Cedar City trial was great.

Definitely worth going to next year.

(Though, that was the trial I was referring

to when making my flat tire comment.)

 

It was a bit tough the first day, though.

Out of 110 points possible in Open, first place was

61 and second place was 49. Only 2/17 PN dogs

even got a score! First place there was in the 40's

I think. Scary.

 

The course wasn't the problem (500 yard outrun on a very large, flat hay field).

The sheep (really nice lambs) were kicking everyone's ass bigtime.

 

charlie

[stockdogranch]

What was it about the lambs that was so tough? Were they fighting the dogs? Running off? Just clueless lambs? Inquiring minds want to know!

A

[cgt]

Hi Anna.

 

What was it about the lambs that was so tough? Were they fighting the dogs? Running off? Just clueless lambs? ...

 

Yes.

[SoloRiver]

The sheep at both of these trials were perfectly nice. If Fly had found them I think we would have done fine.

 

Before we ran (or "ran") I was worried primarily about the shed. Silly me.

 

Fly was trained thusly: she is supposed to stay by my leg as we walk to the post. For my part, I am supposed to walk in a line to the post that points in the direction the sheep are. If I send her from a bit behind me she is supposed to go wider. She also knows "look" means "look for sheep," or so I thought, but I am beginning to think she thinks it means "look intensely in that direction but for what, I don't know." She does prick her ears when she sees the sheep, it is very subtle however as she looks intense all the time whether she sees sheep or not. Even if she sees them she seems to have trouble with the "mental map" thing so hopefully I can help her with this.

 

Our next trial is on a relatively flat field that we have run on before and done well on. (I also ran Solo at that trial, but we won't talk about his run. Suffice it to say, it was Solo's last trial run.) I was thinking of scratching, but I am going to go out there to practice tomorrow so I'll decide after that. Either way, we're going to fix this. I'm not screwing around!

 

And here I thought my next training post was going to be how great our shedding practice was last week and how it paid off. I even saw Fly's teeth last week, which I guess is only a good thing if you know Fly and know that she doesn't seem to realize she has teeth. I thought we'd get to the shed and I'd at least be able to get her to come in with gusto even if I couldn't get her to keep the sheep I pointed her toward. I can dream.

 

Thanks again, guys. It helps a lot.

[Cynthia P]

Melanie I too ran in my first open trial this past weekend. Entered both days..only went one day.

 

They were non dogged commercial ewes. The field was not too challenging, with some dips and curves, but lots of pressure and non dogged sheep. This is not Libby's strong suit. I too have a very good outrunning dog and have been working on shedding, driving etc.

 

Soooo, she looks, vibrates, excited...good news; goes come by (everyone sent come by...i did something right), starts to cut in one of the hills, redirect on the fly, good, comes in again...scalloped out to the sheep, her eye sucks her right in but she did take a redirect fairly close to where she would normally be totally locked in...yeah!!! Her lift was perfect, straight, I didn't lie her down...don't let the sheep get a look at her, keep her moving (all of the comments I've had about her), flank, flank walk walk, keep in constant contact! Doing well, oh a little offline, send on an away...and we stop. As Scott Glen says, " a perfect picture taking opportunity...nothing is moving"...flank flank walk up....sheep eat grass, Libby is staring...i'm hapless...finally, that'll do...exhaust the sheep.

 

My friends were very supportive...I didn't go back the next day...I stayed at home to have my own sheep stare Libby down...where I actually could help her...

 

Apparently the sheep were more cooperative on day 2....we'll work on all of the pressure and see how she does next year. Libby's stong suit is not the stroppy commercial sheep but the faster running sheep where her fast flanks and obedience shine...however, since we have stroppy commercial sheep and most the trials in Ontario on are on non dogged sheep ...she's getting better and I just have to work with it.

 

I'm looking forward to finishing a course.

 

I am at one with you!

Cynthia

[KathyF]

Before we ran (or "ran") I was worried primarily about the shed. Silly me.

 

And here I thought my next training post was going to be how great our shedding practice was last week and how it paid off. I even saw Fly's teeth last week, which I guess is only a good thing if you know Fly and know that she doesn't seem to realize she has teeth. I thought we'd get to the shed and I'd at least be able to get her to come in with gusto even if I couldn't get her to keep the sheep I pointed her toward. I can dream.

 

Thanks again, guys. It helps a lot.

 

 

Ah, Melanie, you learned about something that others have told me. Don't get ahead of yourself. One step at a time, once you get through each part then think about the next. Every time that I have thought too much about the shed I can hardly get past either the fetch or the first leg of the drive.

 

I also have had the walk of shame and I had the ride of shame on a four wheeler.

 

Kathy

[airbear]

As Scott Glen says, " a perfect picture taking opportunity...nothing is moving"...flank flank walk up....sheep eat grass, Libby is staring...i'm hapless...finally, that'll do...exhaust the sheep.

And this would explain why I have so many great pictures of Lou and the sheep ... staring at each other. Sure they make for pretty pictures but ...

 

In our brief trialing career, we have had many moments of ignominy. Probably the worst one was when we had a fetch that was out of control, followed by a wrong flank around the post, and culminating with 3 sheep escaping to exhaust, one into the woods, and one collapsing. That I had left the post and was trying to call my dog off didn't ease the shame one bit. I remember patting the sheep that had collapsed, saying "Please get up, I am so sorry" until she finally clambered up and trotted off. Second worst was timing out going around the post. Yes, around the post. And no, it wasn't a double lift. We had that much of a problem lifting and moving 2 ewes and 2 lambs (or more specifically, one ewe who didn't think my dog had the right to tell her to move).

 

Oh, and arena trials. I won't even get started about how bad we are at arena trials! So chin up, the next one will be better!

[blackacre]

No!

I claim the ultimate prize for myself.

Until you can say you almost died - literally! - while

trying to take the long walk, you really

cannot take my prize.

 

I cannot bear to say more, but some of you may

actually have witnessed the fun I had at Fire Ridge a

couple of years ago.

 

-charlie

 

OK. I can't stand it. What happened?

 

Here's an amusing one, admittedly not at my expense. Terry won't mind, though.

Maryland, Sherry Smith's trial. On the back field. Cold, misty. Scott Glen is judging, high up in Dave's combine, wrapped in a blankie. Terry sends Boss, recently acquired. Dog starts on outrun. Scott shouts: "Terry, call your dog!". Terry turns around and says, "Why?". Scott shouts, "Because there's no sheep out there." Terry: "Oh". Long pause, Boss still running out, getting farther away every moment. Terry: "I can't. I don't know his recall." Scott: "whistle whistle whistle". Boss comes back.

 

A

[Belleview]

Hey Melanie-

 

If it makes you feel better, I once had to take the same walk of shame FOUR times in one weekend--twice each day when my dog who was running in both ranch & open (as the NE allows) didn't find his sheep....ever. Oh, and it was at Fosterfields, which as you know, is a big hill.

 

Better luck next time!

 

Lori Cunningham

[Wendy V]

I have many embarassing moments to share....but I am too embarassed to talk about it.

 

Melanie - I, too, have a dog that will give every indication that she has seen the sheep, but is clueless once I send her. Unlike your dog, mine is not a good outrunner, so I approach the post in an attitude that I am just going to help her through the course. This year at Edgeworth, which is a very challenging course that plays into my dogs out-running weaknesses, I had to give her several redirects. She, too, stops and looks back at me, so I even raised my crook in the opposite hand to indicate and reinforce which direction I wanted her to go. She read the signal correctly and got behind her sheep without a crossover. Embarrassed? - Nah, it takes more that. The second day of the trial produced no improvement, unlike what some would think. But, on occassion, when the stars are aligned in the universe correctly, this dog will pull out a perfect 20/10 and do something spectacular. Go figure.

[TotallyTerry]

I have many embarassing moments to share....but I am too embarassed to talk about it.

 

Melanie - I, too, have a dog that will give every indication that she has seen the sheep, but is clueless once I send her. Unlike your dog, mine is not a good outrunner, so I approach the post in an attitude that I am just going to help her through the course. This year at Edgeworth, which is a very challenging course that plays into my dogs out-running weaknesses, I had to give her several redirects. She, too, stops and looks back at me, so I even raised my crook in the opposite hand to indicate and reinforce which direction I wanted her to go. She read the signal correctly and got behind her sheep without a crossover. Embarrassed? - Nah, it takes more that. The second day of the trial produced no improvement, unlike what some would think. But, on occassion, when the stars are aligned in the universe correctly, this dog will pull out a perfect 20/10 and do something spectacular. Go figure.

[SoloRiver]

Oh man, raising the crook, I never even thought of that (I was using it for support as I slumped over in despair). I'm going to have to try it today.

 

Part of my problem -- or, it is an excuse -- is I bought Fly trained already, almost finished. I was told she had everything but a shed and a look back. (It turns out she does have a look back, although it is not quite solid.) In the novice classes Fly was almost idiot-proof, there were no training issues really, as long as I pointed her the right way everything went swell. It's only recently that I've thought at all about her needing to learn new things, having training issues. All this is aside from my handling shortcomings. It's often hard for me to sort out what's my fault and what's hers (if you can really say anything is her "fault").

 

Well, if nothing else this has certainly underscored the difference between a nice Pro-Novice dog and a successful Open dog for me. Maybe Fly will be the latter one day, although we don't have much time as she's going to be nine on Christmas.

[TotallyTerry]

Melanie,

I too did the long walk of shame this week-end so your post did make me feel better because misery does love company. Like you, I never had worried about outruns with my young dog, he just did them.

(Famous last words). Although he does have a look back and redirect, never had to used them. Now I can say that I never used them sucessfully!

 

I was told by two friends a couple of things that helped:

 

Marilyn told me that I had not totally ruined my dog for life. (I tend to be overly dramatic)

 

Lyle told me that I was not the only handler that ever left the field and went and cried and would definitely not be the last. That's trialing!

 

Does anyone with hills and a small woods in their field within a 250 mile radius of mid Michigan have that field to rent?

 

No, A.

I don't mind you telling any of my embarrassing stories. I only have one correction. I did know Boss's recall. It was whip-per-will. I just told the judge that I couldn't blow it. Thankfully, he could!

 

Kathy F.,

Your friends advice about not getting a step ahead of where you are is excellent. Being a self proclaimed penning goddess, it sure would be wonderful if I could get to the pen more often!

 

To end this post on a positive note, No Stop Tweed, an outrunning fool, started to cross. His redirect hadn't been used in years and as the name implies, stopping is not his forte. He did a most beautiful re-direct! Surprised the hell out of me. It was also the only thing wonderful about the run.

 

Terry