Are any of our BC's related???

[Joe Anne]

I thought this might be an interesting thread to get started..

I got Phoenix from a breeder in Abingdon, Va. The pups were born on Sept. 11, 2004. There were 8 pups in the litter, 4 females & 4 males.

Abingdon is only about 30 miles from the Tennessee border, and about 7 hrs from me in Southern Maryland. My daughter has 1 of the females, so that leaves 6 more pups from the litter... out there somewhere.

Does anyone on these boards have one of Phoenix's littermates??? If so I would love to compare and chat about them if you are interested.

How about the rest of ya'll... are you interested in seeing if someone on these boards has a littermate of your BC?

Just a brain storm, I would like to know if anyone else is interested in this topic???

[Dixie_Girl]

Jackson was born 12-16-04 in Jackson Springs NC. 2 males and 4 females. I talked to the breeder and she said Jackson was the only one doing herding that she knew of.

[CoRayBee]

I don't know the whereabouts of any of Barra's littermates, sadly. But Airbear's Lou is related- his granddam is littermates with Barra's sire Roy. So I guess that makes them second cousins? Something like that.

 

...did I get that right, Kristi? lol

[Kat's Dogs]

Location of the litter, Gig Harbor, WA.

 

Dazzle and her litter were born on March 1st 2005.

Bug and Frank are her parents.

There were (including Dazzle) 2 males, and 5 females in the litter.

All of Dazzle's litter mates are herding and Sue MacDonald (breeder) is keeping up with all of them.

[Dal & Mad's Mom]

It is a nice topic Dal's aunt Penny is lying under my feet right now she wanted to go for a ride when I left mom's so I said I'd drop her back. (She's also the dog in my avitar). Mom is planning to foster Penny's younger brother starting this weekend.

 

We've also met Penny's pups the owners love them.

Looking forward to meeting more at GH reunion

 

I've met people who have Dal's brother shopping in petsmart and they love him to death. It's fun to compare your pups.

[Beth G]

Our pups are out of Idaho and Montana.

 

The male, Popcorn was born on 1-13-06.

 

And the female, Pepper, was born on 1-28-06.

 

Not sure of lines or what not. But they are fabulous dogs and both smart as a whip.

[airbear]

Originally posted by CoRayBee:

... Lou is related- his granddam is littermates with Barra's sire Roy. So I guess that makes them second cousins? Something like that.

 

...did I get that right, Kristi? lol

Let's see:

 

Barra's father is Roy. Roy's littermate, Keeper, is Lou's grandmother. So Roy is Lou's great uncle? Is there such a thing? Which would make Barra ...this is a lot like math ... er, that would make Barra really cute!

 

Roy and Keeper as pups:

 

Barra and her dad:

 

Lou and, um, a cat:

[Root Beer]

Speedy was born on August 13, 2001 near Boyertown, Pa. His father's name was Rush and his mother was Tess.

[Guest amylobdell24]

Ceana was born 2-25-05 in Manchaca, TX - close to Austin. Most of her relatives were made in other parts of TX too - with a few from England & Wales thrown in.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

Ann and Jen have oodles of relatives in the area, being of local/imported extraction.

 

When Ann and Jen both start trialing for real (maybe in fall), Ann will have on her daddy's side: one half sister in Open, two littermates in novice, one and possibly two half sisters in novice, and probably one in pronovice or ranch. I've heard another litter sister is coming along well but her Mom is kinda busy.

 

On her mom's side her grandmother is in Open locally, while her mother's father on that side is now in Colorado I think(?), possibly her mother in pronovice, definitely an uncle in Ranch. Her grandmother has a second litter with one pup (seven months) well started who should be around next year.

 

Jen has two littermates that are local. rtphokie's Wick is her most "famousest" littermate, probably. And of course her mom is Laura's June, who has a littermate who is a farm dog in Rowan County. And I just re-discovered another littermate of June, who is black and tan, almost exactly like Ann, surprisingly, since the breeding was between two dogs who were smooth coated and classic black and white.

 

That's just immediate relatives. Jen goes back to the famous "Nick and Jen" pairing, plus Bwlch lines, in addition to John Thomas and Ettrick. That probably makes her "related" to half the dogs on this board, if not more. My Ben will pick up the rest, since he's a great-grandson of Merion Jones' ##Ben and ##Wisp via some classic late nineties typical import breedings (though awkwardly done at his parent's level, unfortunately). Ann is related to the Price's ##Davy line. It goes on and on.

 

The Border collie gene pool is a rather small and precious one. That's why those of us who value variety resist any effort to limit it for ANY reason other than to produce excellent livestock working dogs.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

Oh, I forgot one - Joan would kill me for this one. Ann and Doug the Dog both go back to Tommy Wilson's Roy (they are both great-grand pups - uh, Ann may be back a degree, I forget). Ben is a great-great-grand pup of Wilson's Roy's sire Moss.

 

Wilson's Roy and his sire (and his half-brother Roy overseas), were EXTREMELY important and will probably appear on many of your pedigrees. Or right back off them if you could get back another degree.

[MrSnappy]

Piper comes from the Burnaby SPCA. Anyone got one of these?

 

I have no lineage on any of my dogs, even the one I got from the breeder (born in Coeur d'Alene Idaho in 1997) is "just a farm dog." Although I have had more than one person tell me Piper looks like a Hampton dog.

 

RDM

[Alaska]

Biko is from a shelter in Spokane, born sometime around 1/1/03.

 

Clancy is from a rescue in Vancouver BC

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

I'm that annoying one following people with pound dogs around and demanding to see their pedigree because they remind me of some dog. Sorry!

 

I had one pedigree-less pups once, but pedigrees seem to follow me around. Honest, I really don't obsess over them or think that's all that matters about a dog. I ended up being able to piece together about two-thirds of her pedigree, even - her sire was a son of a female that was a full sister to Sally Lacy's Tru (Lad and I forget the female, Shy?) and Barbara's Imported Dale, and her mother came from LA Alexander. There's some totally last decade stuff in there!

 

I guess I like pedigrees because it's like archeology - putting together clues to make up a picture of history.

 

And of course I fostered lots of dogs who had no clues to offer about their backgrounds. Being an historian helped me there too, because it taught me to make absolutely no assumptions where there are no primary sources.

 

I was recently contacted about a dog that came back into rescue after spending something like six years in his adoptive home. Grrrr. He was one of my fosters so they wanted to know his back history. I supplied it, but I repeated several times that the most relevant history to this dog was spent in the home he had just lost (because his developing thunderphobia was becoming inconvenient to manage, apparently :mad: ).

 

He spent one year in training as a sheepdog, six months with me and six years with them. Who had the most effect on his life?

 

That was a dog with a REALLY nice pedigree, but it would have been much better for him if no one had known about it because his early life was all about disappointed expectations. I buried his origins, in fact, when I put him up for adoption officially. I'm sad that it doesn't seem to have helped much. Once Liberty is back with Karen I'll see whether he can come here.

[Meg's mum]

I'm with you Rebecca. Even if Meg were to turn on to sheep with fierce passion and talent and someone with a trialing sheep farm and loving ways insisted that she come live with them, she wouldn't be passing on her genes becuasae she's being spayed at the end of this month.

 

But I too love the "archeology". I think of it as the 'landscape' of the breed.

 

I haven't a clue where Meg's litter mates or aunts and uncles have gone, I just haven't had the time to ask! But I have her pedigree and a thread on that somewhere here.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

Yes, that's the thing that amuses me about folks who talk about carrying on their pet dog's "line." Dollars to donuts there's nothing particularly special about the line. Border collies are so very interelated.

 

I had a young male that I thought the world of, for years. I wish I had him right now but the man who has him needs him more than I do. He was a lovely dog and caught several highly respected eyes. I had the chance a couple times to breed him but I waffled instinctively. He had a neat pedigree at the third degree, but he was backyard bred and "soft" in the first couple degrees.

 

I've learned since then where that "softness" in the pedigree (I'm fairly sure), would have come out in the breeding. I'm thankful I didn't find out by bringing any pups into the world! The longer I don't breed, the longer I feel it's going to take me to feel ready.

[Smokjbc]

Yes, that's the thing that amuses me about folks who talk about carrying on their pet dog's "line." Dollars to donuts there's nothing particularly special about the line. Border collies are so very interelated.>>

 

My personal favorite is when folks say "hey, LOOK (framed papers in hand ) his/her grandfather/grandmother is from SCOTLAND! Can you believe that ?

 

I should have relatives of my dogs on these boards- I know Diane Pagel has a few since we got our two Pleat/Tess pups from her. By coincidence, my dog Jane is also related to dogs Diane has or had. And- Kat- I believe one of your dogs littermates comes out to work with me in Vegas (she is about the same age and is out of Bug). My old dog Leary is a Dryden Joe something or other, and Rhett is linebred Templeton's Roy on top. I'm sure there's lot of relative there . Anyone with McCallum bred dog? I got a Tim/Crystal granddaughter. Most of my dogs, except Jane and the recent pups, are local/Nevada bred.

[SoloRiver]

Solo is a great-grandson of Nathan Mooney's Max (and therefore goes back to Brady's Jim) on his sire's side, and in consequence has relatives trialing all over the east coast and beyond. Unfortunately he does not resemble them in working prowess, although he has his good points and has developed a LOT since I started working him out here in CA (he has a lot of presence -- maybe it's the sheep, maybe it's the space, I don't know but he likes it). Deb Mickey's Jill is a littermate to Solo's sire.

 

In other news he goes back to many of the usual suspects (Aled Owen's Ben, ##Wisp) but not until the last line of his pedigree. His dam's side is somewhat interesting -- half of it goes back to good old Pennsylvania breeding (Shearer and Shaffner), and the other half goes back to Wilson's Peg and Brady's Jim again.

 

I spent a lot of time researching Solo's pedigree trying to get a handle on his psychoses (I now think it's a result of the strange alchemy produced by crossing certain lines, along with stochastic factors) so I know more about it than Fly's.

 

Fly is imported and mostly of Welsh breeding. The only ancestors she shares with Solo in her six-generation pedigree are ##Wisp and his predecessors. She is a daughter of Norman MacDonald's Zac, who was the top ISDS sire several years back but for some reason his offspring do not seem to have been imported to the States much. On that side she goes back to Templeton's Ben and Templeton's Roy. I am completely unfamiliar with the dogs on her dam's side, but being a total neophyte that doesn't mean much.

 

Solo's pedigree:

http://home.earthlink.net/~soloriver/soloped.html

 

Fly's pedigree:

http://home.earthlink.net/~soloriver/flyped.html

[juliepoudrier]

So let's see, Kat goes back to Brady's Jim and Wilson's Roy, which makes her related to Solo and to Becca's dogs. Twist, Jill, Lark, and Farleigh all go back to John Thomas' Don, which as Becca said, makes them related to *a lot* of dogs in the East. And Lark is also related to Nathan Mooney's Max (several generations back through her grandsire Pete). Her maternal line goes back to Bwlch lines, I think, which makes her also related to Becca's Jen. Boy would also be related to Jen through the Ettrick lines. Yep, it would seem *all* of our dogs are related somehow. (Willow's pedigree is unknown, but I bet there are folks out there who could make some good guesses.) I'm sure I could find more connections than what I've stated here, but that would require actually pulling out the pedigrees and looking at them. Anyway, I think links to them are posted on a thread about pedigrees that was acgive a month or two ago (for the truly dedicated pedigree snoops out there).

 

J.

[MrSnappy]

Originally posted by Alaska:

Clancy is from a rescue in Vancouver BC

And Clancy is a Hampton dog I believe and, as I've said to anyone who will listen since he came into rescue, I really think he is related to Piper. So maybe we do have a relative on board here

 

RDM

[Maralynn]

Here is Missy's Pedigree . Her great-grandfather was also Nathan Mooney's Max, and she has Bruce Fogt's Hope for a great-great-grandmother.

 

Her mothers side leaves a little to be desired though

[borderlicious]

MrSnappy, small(ish) world. I lived in the Coeur D' Alene area for years.

 

My boy was born on June 26, 2004 in Hayden Lake, Idaho.

[Dal & Mad's Mom]

Frodo is pedigreeless and people are always pumping my mom for info. He is a perfectly marked split face that we found as a courtesy listing from one of the southern BC rescues I think NCBR. He's supposed to be from CO born in 10/04. The running joke between my mom's bc friends is they are going to make him a pedigree.

[sea4th]

Tam and Maggie are full bro & sis, but from different litters. Their by Imp. Dale out of Imp. Tib, sired by Templeton's Roy and farther back has more Templeton's Roys. In fact she has a lot of Templeton dogs behind her. Tibbie is now with me in her retirement years.

 

Joe and Sea are out of Maggie and are by a dog who goes back to H. Jones, Moss & Glyn Jones Ben.

 

Dale was used a lot, so they probably have some kin folk on this board.

[flien]

Heh! Rebecca and Julie are spot on -- the lines converge all over the place! My Ozzie is a Wilson's Roy grandson and Johnson's Rosco great-great grandson on his sire's side -- goes back to some Knox Ettrick dogs on the dam's. The wee Tess's sire is out of Henry's Holly x Kuykendall's Coon, so goes back to Rosco "just off the edge;" whereas Will is out of Verna Krammes's Willow x Wilson's Moss, so he goes back to Wilson's Roy again -- great-great grandson. We're all cousins here!

 

As far as working true to their lines? From the first trial we entered (when he was what, Julie, 2?) Oz has had moments when people would swear* he works "just like Rosco," even though old Rosco was waaaaaay back there. Willie, on the other hand, who looks the best on paper (of my sample size of three) is blooming late (I hope ); at the age of three, he has yet to excite any comments about lines. So for me, anyway, the pedigree stuff is chiefly for its entertainment value -- and it is fun, isn't it!

 

*as opposed to the moments when I swear -- definitely not Rosco moments!