Advice on Picking a Breeder

[Pearse]

Setout pen is a GREAT novice job (if the novice can be trusted to not totally freak out the sheep I guess). It's the only one where you get to interact with the sheep in any sense and depending on who's in there with you it can be a great learning experience for starting to be able to read sheep. In my case, I didn't have a dog that I trusted to take into the pen with me (in retrospect Solo would have been good in there but I didn't want to take the chance that he was going to rile up the sheep) so I had to be the dog. How often does someone who only takes lessons get to do that?

 

Another novice job I enjoy a lot that does require a dog is pushing out to the setout team. It involves more real work than exhaust, but the potential for disaster and/or everyone hating you for screwing up is much lower than other dog-related jobs like setting out.

 

Can I collect DNA in beautiful Minnesota in October?

 

 

Setout pen is a great job for anyone who wants to improve their sheep handling skills. If you can sort 2 lambs + 2 ewes, without touching the sheep, in the setout pens then you will be better prepared to do it when it comes time to shed. It can be hard dirty work but I always find it worth doing.

 

If you want to come and collect DNA at the trial, come by all means. I'm keen to hear about your project anyway so if you spot me at the Finals be sure to introduce yourself. I'll be the one with the black and white dog. There's a trial in WI the week before mine too. If that would work better with your schedule heading back from the Finals, let me know and I'll talk to the trial host.

 

Pearse

[Olivia]

I agree...my first trial job was in the set out pen. I was working with a very nice gentleman who used his dog as the setout dog but I got to do all the sheep sorting and moving in the pen. Whew! By the time the day was over I was exhausted, filthy and did I mention exhausted but I learned more about moving sheep, what a good run looks like from the top and I had made a friend. He answered all my questions without hesitation and guided me gently in the best way to move the sheep.

 

My second dog came from a woman who was my herding instructor with my first dog. I met her open male dog and fell in love. I would have stolen him away in a second. I loved his attitude and the more I learned about working sheep I learned to love his working style. I waited for 2 years for a pup from that dog and he was worth the wait. She was also wonderful about walking a novice through starting a dog and taught me what to look for in my future dogs. Open handlers can and are your best source of information to learn about stockdogs...not just the sheep working side but they have to live with their dogs too and can tell you more about the personalities of various lines than you would believe possible.

 

Thanks to all those Open handlers who take their time to educate us novices about this wonderful breed.

 

Olivia

[PennyT]

I'm not on my way to the Finals because taking care of a litter of puppies seems more important. Silly me. Also the thought of going and not running Jordan or Taylor, who are 12 now, makes me sad.

 

I want to add a thought to the points made about going ahead and asking breeders whom you regard as possibily too high-faluting to sell you a pup. The same thing is true about trainers. Several years ago, I almost missed out on getting lessons from Ralph Pulfer. I knew he didn't teach clinics or advertise that he would give lessons at that time, so I thought that he would be offended if I inquired. It turned out that Ralph liked giving lessons and had his feelings hurt because not enough people approached him yet I couldn't imagine that the Ralph I knew could think that way.

 

Penny

[Michelle K]

This thread has been fantastic. I have learned a lot just by reading through. I'm definitely not looking to add another dog to our pack, but you've helped me to feel more at ease around the stockdog world. I must admit that I've been a little shy on this board because I am not "working" my dogs. I have always loved the herding dogs. The intensity of a Border Collie was something I always pictured in my mind when I thought of a herding dog. I wanted a BC for a long time, but I didn't want to get one when I knew that I couldn't fill their needs, so I waited. Unfortunately, the only people that I know locally, are into the BCs for AKC conformation. That's why I didn't go out and buy a BC. When I heard about Nykie needing a home, we got her instead. I did know a lady who worked her Shelties on herding, and I planned to talk to her about introducing my Shelties to it (This was last year, before we ever got Nykie). I knew that she had been sick, so I was waiting until she was back into her training to talk to her. Sadly, she was diagnosed with cancer and passed away in June of this year. She was the only person I knew that did any type of herding. I have talked to everyone that I know and no one could tell me who to talk to. Of course, now (due to my husband's work schedule and our daughter), it's a little harder to fit the time in for training, plus I have one of our Shelties in an obedience class right now, but I'm willing to try when I can. The thing is that I chose to go the alternate route of focusing on obedience and agility, because it is more available here. I do enjoy it, though. I would just love to be able to experience watching the true working BC. I looked at http://www.usbcha.com/, but I didn't see any trials close.

[SoloRiver]

For those of you who have not met Melanie...she is the cute Asian with the brightest smile!!

 

Ha! You are too kind. Frankly, I'm usually the only Asian, so I'm pretty easy to spot, especially when I have my red dog with me...

 

Seriously, if anyone is going to feel out of place and stick out like a sore thumb at a sheepdog trial, it would be me. Not only am I in a basically non-represented demographic in the sheepdog world, I also have a crazy, fashion-colored dog. And yet, I have never felt anything but welcome, even when I didn't have a trial dog to give me "street cred."

 

Don't be scared, people. Just go out there and say hi. No one's going to bite you. If it makes you feel better, you can always start by coming to talk to me. Feel free to say hi (but don't pet Solo without permission.) I'm easy to spot.

[ShoresDog]

Ha! You are too kind.

Harking back to the Morning in Zamora pictures, I would say that "cute" is an understatement! For me, one of the neat things about going to a trial is seeing the different ages of the handlers and the high representation of women. Going to a trial should be urged not only to see the wonderful dogs, but also to see that both men and women, young and old, can do it.

[Laura L]

Are you busy second weekend in Oct? Anyone else who considers working in the setout pens a "plum job" and would like to visit beautiful Minnesota in October, come on down.

 

Pearse

 

Ok I'm going to add 2 more trials that would be happy for volunteers to come work in the pen, scribe, spot sheep, post scores: the Caledonia Stock Dog trial the first weekend in May and the WWSDA Labor Day trial which of course is Labor Day weekend. Both of them are in Portage, Wisconsin. You can help whether you have a dog or not and whether or not you're actually running in the trial. And anyone who wants to come and take DNA samples is welcome too!

 

Laura

[DeltaBluez Tess]

>>>>I'm usually the only Asian, so I'm pretty easy to spot, especially when I have my red dog with me...<<<

 

Girlfriend......That is so not true. ;-)

 

I have my TWO red/white Border Collies and am Asian....

 

 

....so to make it even more confusing.....

 

 

Melanie - Asian - one red dog -

 

Diane- Asian - two red dogs (one which looks like Solo)

 

Diane

 

(Melanie...Tess just won an Open class, Lucy- red granddaughter just won PN)

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

With regard to the atmosphere on the Boards, just wait until after the fall trial season settles down. There's been some new faces appearing here and a big new crop of puppers coming up and I'm sure we will be talking each other's ears off! I've found sorting through the noise is much easier even if I'm super busy like I am now, by using the "View New Posts" and then just scanning the titles. There's never more than a couple pages of stuff to go through if I've checked at least once that day.

 

I like how all the fluffy stuff attracts people with little interest in the working stuff, but they find themselves drawn into the working side of things through all of you who put the effort into maintaining that chatter here too. Probably the photos and videos are the key to this. Melanie's photojournalism efforts have been really cool and I think help people who have never been to a trial realize that they are real, accessible, and just as awesome as we keep claiming!

 

Pearse, you would SO have a volunteer here - but not this year - Bugsy doesn't go that far yet. Maybe next year I will do the big midwest trial tour I keep planning.

[Samantha J]

Ummm maybe i shouldn't comment on here, i don't look at this section normally, but looked at this today and saw this thread.

 

I just wanted to add a few comments from someone who although is not completely new to BC's is still kind of a newbie. As Holly is my first one. The other poster that started this thread off or rather the one you started mentioning about i can't and don't want to comment on but in my case i feel awkward as i too am still quite new here, people don't know me that well and i am to be honest a little worried about any comments etc that i might make on here. As someone who has never thought about the history of the working side, never been to sheep trials or anything like that i may say things that seem daft to you that know about things.

 

With reguards to breeders etc it is a little different over here as far as we don't sell dogs in pet shops but the same also as the US and other places as we still have bad breeders and good breeders. From someone who joined this forum thinking i must have a KC dog as it is the best way to get a good dog, of course i checked out breeders before getting Holly. Found a good one and as i have put in other posts on here have always been very happy with her, she questioned me a lot first and has stayed in contact ever since. So for me that is a good breeder. I now am looking for another puppy this time round, i should think whether anyone agrees or not they have seen that on the other posts.

Now i do want to do right by the breed, and i am trying to take on board all advice offered here. It is hard though for newbies like me to digest it all. I agree totally with Melanie's statement about being shy to approach working people. I feel the same, i honestly would feel very uncomfortable asking for a puppy from people at these trials or going to them and getting involved in the first place. I personally am starting off with internet searches but i will and have been asking many questions too.

 

So really what i want to say is that although i perhaps won't always do the right thing, i personally do try and take all the information on here in and make it make a difference to my choices. I have been looking at ISDS for a start instead of KC. I also am looking into a breeder at the moment who hasn't had hip scores done but as per advice on here i am looking into the history of her dogs and finding out more about there work history before they are even born. Whether i do go with her or not i don't know but the information you give on here is helping. So i guess i am speaking for us newbie people that are still learning about your world on here, some of us are listening but we still may get it wrong. So please keep giving us the advice, otherwise we will not be learning anything else which would be a shame. It is a good site this i wish we had such a good one in the UK.

 

 

It would be a good idea for me to see some trials anyway, as a spectator . Off topic but just for a viewing what goes on with trialing etc where do i start?. I am from the South of the UK, could anyone point me in the right direction for perhaps sheep trials that i could sort of watch from a far to start with. I can't keep saying i don't understand it all, i would like to see it for myself a little. Is there any web addresses you guys good give me for trialing that are in the UK and good so i could check them out. Funny asking for advice for the UK on here but you do know more than me about my country on this subject.

[Sue R]

Samantha - I believe that the ISDS website has listings for trials in your part of the world (www.isds.org.uk). Go to this webpage for a listing of some upcoming trials - http://www.isds.org.uk/news/trials_diary/local_trials.html and look to see what might be close enough for you to go. There are contact people and phone numbers listed there.

 

I think we need to understand that while many breeders produce nice pet dogs and such, to keep the Border Collie as the dog it is and to ensure its future, requires breeding for working ability and not unimportant traits that are prevalent in the kennel club world.

 

Some of the nicest people that I have met in the working Border Collie world are top handler/trainers. The good ones are always willing to help so you need to put yourself in a position where you can ask questions and get answers. Do remember though that, as in everything else, there are good and bad handler/trainers in the working Border Collie world as well as anywhere else. If you have questions, you might like to PM or email certain folks here to get candid (and private) recommendations/cautions about particular breeders/trainers.

 

Talk around, check folks out, ask questions, get references, and (maybe most of all) let a potential seller know what you are looking for and why, so that they can help you. Many may also know of worthwhile dogs that don't cut it as stockdogs but would make excellent active companion dogs.

 

You never know, you might get hooked and someday wind up with a dog (or dogs) and sheep and a small farm! It looks to me like you have learned a lot and understand the philosophy and mission of these boards. Best wishes!

[Samantha J]

Thank you Sue for that answer and link, i will be looking at that tonight.

The only time i see sheepdog's work (sorry if that isn't the right word) is at country shows and that is in a pen with geese. Not the same at all.

 

One question though are you allowed to bring your own dog's? If we went to one i would really like to take Holly. She usually comes nearly everywhere with me.

 

I do appreciate your advice and Rebecca on my other thread too, she suggested meeting up with working folk. It's this i am not worthy feeling i need to get over. I have Holly and i don't think i have done too bad with her.

It's a bit like BC rescue really, if i went to the home near (although it is a few miles away) us it is for all animals so i don't feel too bad. However if i was looking at BC's from a BC rescue i get that same feeling. My bad i know, something i need to get over. I think it's the confidence word!! I need more of it.

 

Thanks again.

[Sue R]

Samantha - I can only speak for the US but all the trials I have attended have allowed spectator dogs that were quiet and mannerly. Well, except one, which was associated with a fiber festival and I think the prohibition was due to the festival, not the trial. Actually, handlers did have non-competing dogs present but spectator/fiber festival attendees were not allowed to bring dogs on site, so some idiot left their three pet Border Collies in the car park with the windows almost closed. They had to get someone to jimmy the car open to help the panting dogs as they couldn't located the owners on the grounds.

 

Keep Holly on lead, quiet, and with you, and remember to pick up after her and I doubt there would be any problem. If she is excited by the action on the field, you might find a quiet place to tether her (chain so she can't chew through) if she will stay there quietly.

 

Best wishes!

[juliepoudrier]

Samantha,

I know it's hard, but it's one of those things where the advice "just do it" applies. We have folks from the UK over here to judger trials fairly often and I have to say that to the person everyone I have met has been exceptionally nice. At the finals in Sturgis in 2005 (my first year as an open handler and my first finals) I walked up and introduced myself to Derek Scrimgeour (from the UK). I could've just walked on by, but I really admire him, so I screwed up my courage and spoke to him. He was very gracious and we had a nice conversation. I was a nobody handler and yet he was perfectly nice. I went to a sheepdog trial while I was in the UK in 2005 and spoke to a number of people who didn't know me from Adam (and ran into Francis Raley's son--Francis is secretary of the USBCHA), and they were all quite friendly. I know it's hard to get over the intimidation thing, but if you take the plunge, you might be pleasantly surprised with the result!

 

The UK trials seem to be a bit more informal, with people coming and going, whereas here in the US, the handlers usually stick around for the whole day or weekend of the trial. I don't think anyone would object to Holly being with you as long as she is well behaved.

 

J.

[Samantha J]

Thank you Sue and Julie,

 

This is something i would really like to have more knowledge about. That looks a great site for me to start, i also have noticed that there are breeders on there. Not saying that they would let me have one of course. Just gives me more options to consider. I am in no hurry, just i haven't really thought Holly was ready for me to even look until now.

 

I have noticed a few trials have been cancelled because of that horrible foot and mouth.

 

If some are further away as i don't travel well i am thinking maybe i could plan some holidays around the areas, especially if i can take Holly and hubby too. That sounds like something that would be a good day out for us all.

 

In the meantime you have started me off looking into what to expect at them and so a shall enjoy looking for information and maybe have a look at your working section (not to comment of course, just to lurk a bit).

 

I have got to work on this confidence thing too