Toddler and Dog Problem

[Guest TheRuffMuttGang]

Originally posted by Jodi:

(sticking my neck out here...)

Be careful!!!

[Beth G]

Look is there going to be a problem here too? I would like to kindly request that you leave me alone. Thank you very much.

I have already apologized here once and on the other board, created a new account AND tried to start over. Which is more than I can say for you.

 

And pushing away new border collie owners is another wonderful way to just end up with more border collies in rescue. Not that I plan to do that at all. I've raised pups before. I had a dog from a pup for 11 yrs until she grew too sick and I had to let her go.

 

So you may want to rethink your approach. I've had enough here. I will kindly mover to ANOTHER board.

 

Sad you feel you must stalk me because I choose not to internet brawl with you.

[Dixie_Girl]

Huh? Did I miss something? Somewhere? What?

 

BG is someone here bothering you? Please explain. If there is a prob you need to at least let Eileen know about it. If you don't want to post it for everyone to read you can PM her. She will take care of it. Really she will. Just give her a chance to do something first. Okay?

[Beth G]

Eileen knows everything, including who it is, and she has been great! But Thank you guys.

 

See there was a problem on another board and that person Ruff mutt is now commenting on every post I make. So I changed my name and now am getting flack for that.

 

But consider this:----------------

I just want to be able to post here unmolested. No nasty PM's. No putdowns, just advice. My whole aim is to learn about the BC. That's it.

 

I'm not trying to keep the hostilites going but I notice that Debbie (Ruff) is getting away with it and is following me from board to board making all kinds of comments on ALL my posts, on each board.

 

After the big blow out on another BC board I am already defensive towards her, and am AGAIN requesting for her to kindly not talk to me.

 

I mean really does it matter who I am logged in as. I changed my name to getaway from her,. That right there tells you something. Like I am trying to NOT keep this going. I'd appreciate the same on her part. I ask you is this possible? Can she ignore me????

[Beth G]

Now back to answering Q's. Yes I have two pups. One is my husband's and one is mine. We are both at home all day. Disabled. He is on dialysis and I have fibro and probable MS, so we have plenty of time for two pups. But we are pretty active. We go across the street twice every day and play with our pups and our 2 year old.We play on the playground first with our son, and then we go run the dogs and work on training in the huge field attached to the park. I have even taught my pup, Popcorn to go down the slide and up the stairs in preparation for possible future agility some day.

 

Then we go home and nap at around 1 pm.

 

It is alot easier than people think to raise two pups, at least for me, and I have done most of their housebreaking, by choice. The pups are crate trained and both on the same feed/walk schedule. The first month I slept out on the sofa next to their crates. It made it alot easier and that way they didnt wake anyone. My husband did take turns with me however, when I asked him so I got a break though.

 

So it's been quite awhile since we've had any more accidents. (The rug is getting proffesionally cleaned tommorow too:)).

 

Now Popcorn was housebroke in 2 weeks and I got him at 6 weeks!! I was amazed. I started out by putting him on a strict schedule, and then after a bit, he would cry or got to the door and I would just have to be very watchful, and make sure I got there in time. As their little bladders only give them so much time to give us notice...lol.

So when we got Pepper I did the same thing.

 

Pepper has been taking longer- but is catching up.

 

My husband is in the middle of a landsale so we are looking into getting a house this year. Not sure if we are going to move out of state or not yet, as he would like to be closer to his brother in Colorado again.

 

But these pups have alot of our time, and are very spoiled. I just recently became unable to work but these dogs in a way have saved me. I enjoy them so much!! I hope to learn alot about them here too!

 

If I have missed any of your Q's please ask again as my mind has it's bad days...lol.

[Dixie_Girl]

Good Lord you do have a lot on your plate! Yeah, pups and dogs can make bad situations at least seem better! I don't know how many dogs you've had before, but if you don't know already, BCs are different than any other dog! Especially if they've come from good breeding! You will get plenty of advise from the good folks here! I thought I was very knowledgeable about dogs. Jackson showed me the error of my thinking! He is in training now, and it is so interresting to see him go from goofy to serious sheep dog as soon as we step in the pen!

 

Best of luck to you and yours. Anything you have a question about, please feel free to ask.

 

Again, welcome!

[Dixie_Girl]

Originally posted by GeorgiaBC:

Have you tried crating your son?

Where the heck were you with this advice 25yrs ago when I could have used it?

[Beth G]

Thanks yeah they are such smart little creatures and can be so serious in an instant...and when they want to read your minds....lol.

 

For dog, I have had a lab/cocker/jrt mix Reilly, for 11 years. I put her down last may. She had pancreatic failure, tumours and arthritis.

 

I had a rescued greyhound Cashew, for like 9 years. She had real bad arthritis at the end too.

 

I also oncerescued a 2 yr old male lab/greyhound abuse case but he was too aggressive and overprotective to turn around.He wouldnt let anyone near us. He was the best dog around my son. But not with strangers.

 

I tried proffessional help and even brought him to my friends at the humane society here in WA and they agreed, he had been too badly abused, and probably never socialised and since that important window of time had been missed there was no going back and fixing it. So they decided euthanasia was best. And they were right. I hope he is somewhere happier now. My poor Charlie. The police are still searching for his owner. And the man's wife and child are still in hiding.

[Beth G]

lmao Hhmm...do they make childrens crates? JK

[Dixie_Girl]

I hope they find the guy and he never finds his wife and child! What a creep! I will never understand people who hurt children and animals! How can hurting the MOST defensless make anyone feel "superior"? Well, Charlie is in a better place, at least where no one will hurt him and he doesnt' have to be afraid any longer.

[Lunar]

Originally posted by BG:

The pups are crate trained and both on the same feed/walk schedule.

Agghhh I'm jealous! Zeeke has been on a schedule from the day we got him (but he was 1 year old), Zoe is still driving me crazy with constant whining to go outside. I messed up somewhere, but I still can't figure out how to get her on track.

 

Originally posted by BG:

(The rug is getting proffesionally cleaned tommorow too:)).

You just KNOW that if there was any time for them to have accidents, right after you clean the rug will be it. We have no rugs (hardwood), our couch is old... and nothing will be changed until Zoe is about 5. LOL! Just joking. I think.

 

I have no advice about kids/dogs. No kids yet, but we're planning on it. I have the same worries.

[Guest TheRuffMuttGang]

The only reason I keep commenting is because you continue to talk bad about me, despite the fact that the only comments I am making to you are simple, and non-confrontational at ALL. You are making yourself out to be this angel that I know you are not. But it's okay. Keep lying to yourself and everyone here and maybe you'll get somewhere. Too bad it'll catch up with you in the end. And as for changing names. Only people who need to hide do that. So why would I need to change names and start over? I am sure Eileen does know all about me. But why would I be afraid of what she knows about me? I have nothing to hide.

 

So, I kindly ask. You stop saying false things about me and I will stop bothering you. This right here can be the end of the battle or the beginning of a new. If you truly care about those dogs you will start over. That includes leaving me behind. Starting....NOW!

[Beth G]

Perhaps you did not hear me? I have already apologized for my obnoxious behavior. Have you?

 

Now it is hard to leave YOU alone when you are following my every post. Please let this go.

 

PS

I'm now angel...lol. People have already witnessed my behavior on the other board. And I'm back to using this name again- no hiding.

[Jack & Co.]

Come on.....this is just like Junior High!

[AK dog doc]

Just as a BTW, your toddler surely outweighs your 14 week old BC, so to have the toddler lay on him is a potential for injury to the puppy, and must surely be threatening to him. I don't think that growling under the circumstances seems unreasonable at all - quite the contrary. I'd probably growl, too, if someone twice my size decided to lay on me. More particularly if I was asleep and they did it - imagine if YOU were asleep and a 250 pound man came and flung himself on top of you. Having been asleep, you wouldn't know who it was until you woke, so your experience would be that you are yanked out of a sound sleep (never that pleasant in the first place) only to find yourself in a threatening and potentially painful or injurious (certainly uncomfortable) situation. If it was someone you actually liked who did this, and they KEPT doing it even after you warned them you didn't like it, don't you think you'd get MORE reactive with every episode, not less? Don't you think you'd expect your good friend to show you more resepct? Don't you think you'd feel that your faith in them was being betrayed? I actually think your puppy is showing pretty good restraint. I'm not sure that's going to last.

 

I also don't think that this is per se dominance agression (although that may or may not be present). As a general rule of thumb, dominance agression is when the dog is willing to bite THE OWNER. Your toddler is not the owner. Your toddler is also in a somewhat - um - challenging social phase, and one where adults around him have to place a lot of limits (appropriately). I think this is an area to place very strict limits, or else you may have injury occur - to both parties. I think having the puppy sleep in a crate is a grand idea, for the safety of both parties, but I also think it is imperative to teach your child not to lay on the dog, regardless of their relative sizes (since your puppy will grow a lot faster than your child - of if not, your child will be six feet tall and 180 pounds next summer). This is not a Golden (which MIGHT put up with more of that behavior from a child, as well as being more substantially built to withstand it). This is a BC, who has an entirely different mindset. Some would tolerate that sort of behavior from a child - but I think it unreasonable to expect ANY dog to tolerate that, and if any dog cares to protest, how can we blame them? If any dog tolerates it, that is just a nice bonus for which we should be grateful, not something we should expect. Clearly your puppy does not like it, and your toddler is (from the puppy's point of view) not only showing disrespect of the puppy's comfort, but also disrespect of the puppy's warning that he DOESN'T like if and the child should stop. WE know that the child doesn't understand the puppy's warning or the inappropriateness of laying on the dog, but THE PUPPY does NOT know that. From his point of view, he is showing appropriate behaviors, which are being ignored and disrespected. His next step is likely to be an escalation of the warning, and perhaps the step after that will be a bite. IMO, such a bite would be considered to have been provoked. Meanwhile, the puppy is getting stressed and demoralized and having his trust in people undermined. The toddler will very likely be oblivious - his intent isn't to harm the puppy, he just doesn't get it that this is scary and upsetting to the dog, and inappropriate behavior - but that doesn't change the results.

 

As an example, the BFs BC Pepper dislikes little children. She is a serious dog, a stock dog, and she has no patience for them and their shenanegins. If one of them laid on top of her I don't doubt she'd growl, and possibly bite (particularly since Pepper's first response to little children is avoidance, so they'd have to either trap her or lay on her while she was asleep, both of which situations would increase the potential for biting.) Pepper shows no dominance agression issues at all - not one. As I am her doctor as well as her part-time owner (the BF works out of town so I have her when he is gone), I have often had to do things to her that she has not liked - vaccinations, physical exams, toenail trims, Xrays, tooth-scaling, inspection of painful injuries, induction of anesthesia, etc. Never in all that time has she even offered me the slightest curled lip. She might guard an injured part, but she allows me to look at is and to manipulate it how I need to to see it. She might lay her entire body on top of the foot whose nails I want to trim so that I can't find it, but if by chance I DO find it, she allows the nail trim with no more protest than her squinted eyes and tense body posture - and her twitching as if zapped with electricity at every clipped nail. She has never shown the slightest suggestion that she would bite, no matter how big the laceration I had to inspect; generally she just turns her head away in a "do what you have to do" gesture. But I would pretty much EXPECT a child that laid on top of her to be snarled at and very possibly bitten. Hence, in the presence of children, I pretty much assume it's my duty both to the dog AND to the child to not let that situation occur. (As a BTW, my BC mix would proabably bite in terror first and ask qusestions later, my BC MIGHT tolerate it, though I expect he'd want to escape the child, and the Westie ditto.)

 

You sound like you DO have a lot on your plate at the moment, but because you have time available, you have the opportunity to make sure this doesn't get out of hand. Unfortunately, your puppy is likely to learn the social rules way faster than your child; there's a reason pups are ready to be re-homed at 8 weeks and people aren't ready til 18 years. Or longer, depending. Since the "terrbile twos" can potentially last from 18 months to about 4 years old (depending on the child), you might have some significant time ahead where you're possibly going to have to ride herd pretty vigilantly on the child. That's the nature of being two. Luckily it doesn't last forever. We all got over it eventually. Well, most of us did.

[Joe Anne]

AK dog dog... as usual, an incredible post. We have all come to depend on what you have to say and very much appreciate your professional input.

Me being a Dog Trainer....all I can say is 100%....DITTO!!

You have a way of combining the professional and the understandable explanation, (for the lay person)

Once again... thanks

BG... I think I speak for all of us here who know Ak dog doc... Heed this great advice!

Good Luck and may you be blessed with LOT's of patience...

I'll be honest, I don't think I could handle a toddler and a BC puppy at the same time! and, I know I wouldn't want to! That's why I love being in the grandma stage of my life LOL!

[karrie]

I would crate the puppy during nap times. When puppy is in the crate, child is not to bother the crate. No poking fingers etc. Occassionally, my kids give Sam a treat while in his crate but only when I give them the extra treat ( I moniter this especially with my toddlers~ I don't want them to tease or aggravate Sam in his special place). The crate is Sam's haven.

 

Ways to get the puppy to like his crate and stop whinning:

 

Radio nearby so he doesn't feel alone.

 

Stuffed toy ( if he isn't in to destuffing toys)

Sam loved a big teddy bear when he was a baby. I think for him it was like being with the other dogs. Only he de eyed and nosed it. He also peed on it. But he slept faithfully on it too.

 

A blanket/doggie bed especially if this item has your scent.

 

A special treat for going into crate. Tuck loved cheetos and cheese puffs and the only time he got them was for going into crate. Sam likes those too.

 

Hope this helps some.

[Joe Anne]

sheeeeesh! Ak dog dog! hmmmm, I'm glad you have a sense of humor Doc!!!

good thing correct spelling isn't a must for these boards! LOL

[Guest TheRuffMuttGang]

Originally posted by BG:

I have already apologized for my obnoxious behavior. And I'm back to using this name again-no hiding.

Thank you, and thank you. We are done with that now.

 

Not that you wouldn't take advice from me with a grain of salt, but perhaps you'll at least read it if I take the time to offer.

 

AK Dog Doc--WOW! That was a book (mind you, a good one!) if I ever read one!

[Beth G]

Thank you that is some wonderful advice. I talked to my husband and explained everything from this viewpoint. He agreed to be more vigilant and we are going to crack down on our son doing this with time out's. Not physical punishment.

 

We just got a bigger crate today actually, and also some marrobone treats. They just love those.

 

You know what? When Poppy goes into the crate with our other pup, Pepper he is fine. It is when you crate him alone he raises hell.

 

We are in the process of splitting them up several times a day to get them to bond to us. So he will have to learn to be by himself.

 

Later we are going out to get some new toys for them also. I had a kong around here some where but I packed it away when I had my old dog put down and now cannot find it. It was pretty new. So I will go buy another.

[Beth G]

I sincerely hope so.

[AK dog doc]

Thanks, and you're welcome. And JoeAnne, don't worry about it - it's better to be "AK dog dog" than the "other" easy typo - "AKC dog doc."

[Dixie_Girl]

Originally posted by AK dog doc:

"AKC dog doc."

Is this assuming they CAN be cured?

[Lunar]

BG - Good idea about splitting them up. I have the same problem with Zoe... if she's left with Zeeke she's okay (though still whiny) but if we take Zeeke and leave her crated she goes nuts. She's okay if she's out alone with me, I made sure of that... I just forgot to do it the other way around often enough.

[Joe Anne]

Oh, please tell me I am not the one who ever referred to you as the AKC Dog Doc !!