Anyone have experience with K-9 Accupuncture??

[Joe Anne]

Has anyone ever had accupuncture done on their dog?

I have Mirra with the oral cancer and Sitka with either a knee injury or the beginnings of arthritis.

A couple of my clients have used accupuncture for their horses and seem happy about it, but I wanted to know if anyone on the boards has had any experiences (good or not so good), with accupuncture with dogs?

I am not looking for a mirical cure for Mirra, but I was thinking maybe an increase in energy, or pain control or maybe being able to take her off the prednisone.

I am open to ANY, suggestions... holistic, accupuncture etc.

She is still eating and drinking, of which I am thankful, but I am soooo worried about the oral pain that may be coming. I don't think she is in any pain right now, but if it does start to hurt her, she will probably not want to eat even if she is hungry, which really scares me! (eating and bye-bye are her 2 favorite things in the world!).

I have started Sitka on fish oil with dha and ?eta? only 2 days so far. It is supposed to have antiflammatory qualities and is supposed to be good for arthritis.

Anyway, any suggestions, experiences etc.. would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance

:confused:

[Carson Crazies]

I have had two acupuncture treatments for Ginger's arthritis. My hol. vet has used an infrared laser (not needles) b/c Ginger is still getting used to it. I don't know how or why it works, but I can tell you it DOES. For a good two weeks after each treatment she's been bopping around like a puppy. After that I've noticed her condition is still greatly improved (just ask Julie P's chickens). Well, well worth it. Particularly as winter is setting in.

 

One thing (you probably already know this) but carbs not only aggravate arthritis, but also are the main fuel for cancer. You may want to consider (if you're not already doing it) a grain free, limited carb diet for both of them. Let me know, if you'd like I'll send you some info on what I've been doing to manage Ginger's arthritis. I think I made a post in the health section a few months ago about it.

[Carson Crazies]

To find a holistic practitioner near you: http://www.ahvma.org/ look on the bar to the left.

 

Do you get the Whole Dog Journal? There were several articles on Cancer in the last few months. I'm sorry to hear about what your puppers are going through - and I know it must be difficult for you too. Hope some of this helps.

[juliepoudrier]

I have had acupuncture used on my old guy Boy. It seems to make a huge difference for him--he always seems happier and just all around feeling relaxed and better overall after a treatment.

 

You might find a holistic vet helpful--at least for nontraditional approaches to pain control and the like. My holistic vet is very happy to work in conjunction with my regular vet to be sure they aren't working at cross purposes. So if you do go to a holistic vet, let your regular vet know that you plan on the two of them working together to keep your dog as pain free as possible for as long as possible.

 

J.

[AK dog doc]

FWIW, there is at least one study of which I'm aware (published in a peer-reviewed veterinary journal) in which acupuncture was investigated for its ability to control pain. In the study, objective parameters such as heart rate, respiratory rate and blood pressure were measured, as well as subjective signs, such as muscle relaxation and movement. The study was limited to pain control, not other functions such as mobility, organ function, etc. (Although it is perfectly logical to suspect that if a joint is restricted in mobility due to pain, then relieving pain will increase mobility, I have no empirical data to back it up. It's also reasonable to conculde that, since pain causes stress and stress supresses immune system function, relieving pain would improve immunity, but again - no data to back it up.) The conclusion of this study was that acupuncture DOES relieve pain. The degree to which this is so will vary based on the animal and the practitioner, I'd imagine, but this is an alternative modality which DOES have objective data to support it. Bear in mind that animals are not suggestible, so there's no placebo effect (the animal cannot mind-over-matter itself into feeling better, as people are capable of doing, and telling the dog "this will make you feel better" has no effect on it). Moreover, the observations were made while the animals were under anesthesia, and were not made by the owners of the animals, so there's no "owner suggestibility" in this study (as in, the owner thinking, "FiFi SEEMS better" because they so very much want FiFi to feel better), and there's also no influence of the investigator's body language or vocal cues interfering with the study (as in, the investigator becomes more relaxed, expecting the animal to respond to the treatment, and this influences the dog to relax as well.) I've also read anecdotal reports of the use of acupuncture for equine (and human) surgery in China, seen videotape of human surgery (again in China) using ONLY acupuncture as pain control (per the narration on the video, which I suppose could be faked if they really wanted to), and seen it in use on one of "my" racehorses back in my grooming days. In the case of the racehorse (an 11-year-old maiden gelding, who was still running because he always ran either 2nd or 3rd, and made enough money that he paid for his own training and that of the owner's other, less-successful, racehorse), I will say that my observation was that the horse liked the treatments and did seem more relaxed and also more playful/social afterwards. (Good old Felix. His owner was a retired M.D. who just enjoyed the excitement of owning racehorses and watching them run.... he never wanted to be a world-beater, just wanted to run Felix at small local tracks and enjoy musing with the trainer about which races to enter him in, which tracks to run him at, should we scratch this one 'cuz he doesn't like to run in the mud, should we try him on grass, etc. Plus he used to come to the barn to watch his horses work and bring huge sacks of MacDonald's breakfast sandwiches etc for the grooms, which, when you're rubbing horses in the cold, is MOST welcome - trans fats be damned!) But I digress.

 

At any rate, if you can find a reputable veterinary practitioner, I'd say at least give it a try. You should know fairly quickly if it's going to work for her.

[INU]

One thing (you probably already know this) but carbs not only aggravate arthritis, but also are the main fuel for cancer

Laura,

I'd like to hear more about this.

[Daviid]

Had acupuncture on my 8 year old that broke her carpus, and had arthritis.- Excellent results

 

- Had acupuncture on another 14 year spayed female that became incontinent. My holistic vet. used points to straighten the sphincter muscle and she lived 4 more years without one leak or any medication. She also used longevity points. Does this work..I know it did.

 

They both "enjoyed" there treatments..

[Bluzinnias]

I have had accupuncture done on my dog for his hips and he just seems to love it. He is very, very relaxed while our veterinarian inserts the needles and almost goes into a trans, lying on the rug, just completely vegged out while they're in. I have it done as a precautionary measure because his hips look so bad. So far, he's not been in any pain (he's only 2.5years old) but my vet said it wouldn't be a bad idea in the meantime to try it. We have a wonderful holistic vet that works at our practice twice a week.

[Loretta]

I have done accupuncture, accupressure, massage, and herbal treatments on Zip when she had her shoulder injury. She tore the muscles on her entire side and also her chest and triceps when she slipped on ice. I think without all of those things she would still be injured--she did no work for 11 months--but she has made a full recovery with no scar tissue and I will continue with the therapies. I don't know exactly WHAT happens...but it works.

 

Loretta

 

Loretta

[Root Beer]

Not acupuncture, but acupressure. On the advice of an orthopeadic vet, I hired someone to teach me how to treat Speedy by acupressure and massage therpay for bursitis in his shoulder and arthritis on one of his vertebrae.

 

It has had an amazing effect on him. His shoulder is 100% fine now and the arthritis is very well under control.

[Kat's Dogs]

I know some people that did acupuncture with their dogs. The dog had some kind of shoulder problem or something and it worked great. Dog is good as new and back to agility!

[Tassie]

Agility training friends have just been having acupuncture from their holistic vet for their 10 year old Golden Retriever and 6 year old Border Collie. They are very happy with the results, and certainly, to us as onlookers, the dogs do seem happier and more comfortable.

 

AK Doc, we were just discussing that exact thing, that you'd think there couldn't be a placebo effect with the dogs.

[Carson Crazies]

Sorry, INU, I was away from my computer. Which part do you want to know more about?

 

I had a woman (who is very involved in holistic care for humans) tell me once upon a time that carbs were fuel for cancer, and I recall at one point reading it somewhere. Then, the WDJ had an article a few months ago about dealing with cancer and dogs. One of the things it pointed out was that carbs (grains especially) are one of the main fuels of cancer. It suggested that one of the ways to help control it/prolong the pet's life and such was to go to a raw or home prepared diet in which you have better control of the carbs (or at the very least seek out a good kibble). As we all know most commercial kibbles are carb laden, and grain heavy.

 

It's against copywright laws for me to post the articles, but if any of you subscribe to the WDJ, I think the articles (there were two, IIRC) ran some time around Jan/Feb this year.

 

Anyway, I've also run across various articles that suggest that carbs (most specifically glutens/grains) also aggravate arthritis - increase inflammation. I can personally attest that putting Ginger on a limited carb raw diet {she does get lower carb veggie mush, but I avoid things like grains, white potatoes, spinach (b/c of high oxalic acid), and tomatoes (b/c are in the nightshade family)} that she has shown a very obvious and marked reduction in her "bad days" and seems to have less need for chemical pain management.

 

If you do a google search on arthritis and carbohydrates and aggravate you'll get all sorts of good info.

[2 Devils]

I have a chiropractor come for my dogs and she has done acupuncture (laser one) on 2 of the dogs. I do not have it done often enough to show a real difference but I know for about a day or so following it my dogs act like morons again

[INU]

Thanks Laura. I was interested in that part you said about carbs fueling cancer. Thank you

[Carson Crazies]

You're welcome. I'm sorry I can't get any more technical than that. If you do some searching you'll probably find some articles and research that can explain it better than I do. Technical stuff is not my forte - it sort of goes in, comes to a general understanding, and then pops back out condensed when I least expect it to.

 

When I get a chance I'll try to dig up my WDJ's and see if I can get more specific for you.

[Joe Anne]

Wow, thanks everyone, great info and incentives.

It's the March 2006 Whole Dog Journal with the article about carbs and cancer. The title of the article is, "Is Cancer Prevention Possible". I am currently reading that and going through all my WDJ's to re-read anything on cancer and arthritis ,joint injuries or anything dealing with joint diseases.

I love the Whole Dog Journal, they are one of the few that I trust to give honest and up to date information.

Laura I will check out the web site for a Holistic Vet and give them a call also.

I appreciate any and ALL advice or info ya'll can help me with.

I feel the rope burning at both ends, with my sick dog and bunny and Sitka's limping around now (again). She wouldn't even put her foot down for 2 days, but now she is walking gently on it.

It seems that rotten things come in groups! I don't know, maybe it is some sort of "test"??? shoot, at this stage is seems like an endless Board Exam!

The physical exhaustion is a breeze to deal with as opposed to the emotional & mental exhaustion, which is what is creeping up on me now.

I feel so darn helpless and things just seem out of control. I am reading as much up to date medical info, as fast as I can, and trying to sort through which treatment/food/Dr. etc... can best help us out as quickly as possible.

Obviously my poor old girl with the cancer is top priority right now. Sitka is getting around better, but like someone said with the cold weather coming, I suspect the limping to increase with the drop in temp (usually does). My bunny, Thumper... well he has a will of steal! all 2.9 lbs of him! He is trying soooo hard to upright his head, poor baby... but it only lasts for a moment and if he lifts his head up where it should be, he starts rolling again. He is tired of me having to hand feed him too, he is such an independent little bun. I have started putting a handfull of hay in his little area, and he dose his best to reach for it to eat. It is seriously pitiful! Feeding him through a syringe is such a mess. We both get mush all over us when he "decides" he has to roll as I am squeezing in a mouthful of food..hmmm, yuky mess. Then he gets excited and pees all over both of us (can't you just imagine what I and my house smell like right now!!

Anyway, once again...thanks for the information, encouragement and friendship, ya'll are what helps get through times like this, and I know I am not the only one who feels like that!

 

Friends in need are Friends indeed!

Thanks ALL!

[bcnewe2]

I've had 2 dog treated with acupuncture. One had a muscle injury deep in her pelvic which wasn't healing. Did it work? Well if I willed it better by thinking that the treatment worked, I don't care...she was better. She was a rescue who could hardly stand walking in a vet office. She acted the same with this vet. He immediately stuck a needle in a spot on her head which changed her attitude and relaxed her right away. She would slink in and trot out. Amazing!

I also had Mick treated with ap. while he was down with Lymes, and RM Spotted Fever. Didn't seem to help him as much but he was much worse. The chiropractor really helped with his roach back from the disease too. He's come in with his spine all curved and go out almost straight. It's been over a year since his treatments and his back just now straightened out all the way. I can sure tell he's better. Now if the darn disease will just leave us alone.

I'd try ap. on any of my dogs again. I've also had it for myself and felt quite nice after. I didn't have it for any reason other than a friend was practicing but it was as good as an adjustment from the chiropractor.

I agree bad things happen in waves. Maybe it makes us appreciate when things are going good.

Relax and take a breath. Worrying doesn't help anyway. Easier words were never written, but following them is such a test.

Good luck

Kristen