Oh my goodness.

[SoloRiver]

You want a story about fate?

 

Almost six years ago, my heart's dog died. She was a Pomeranian. She died unexpectedly much too early and in very trying circumstances for me as I was also going through a hard time in other ways (end of a long term relationship, starting a new graduate program) and I was so completely devastated I didn't know what to do. My home was empty and I needed, had to have another dog in it. At the same time, no other dogs really looked good to me; none measured up to Harley.

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~soloriver/harley.html

 

Pomeranians are nearly impossible to find in rescue or from shelters. They get snapped up immediately and cute families with kids and fenced yards always get preference.

 

My best bet for another Pomeranian, in fact, really was a pet store. Harley's first owner bought her from a pet store (she was a rescue. Poms are plentiful from pet stores. And hey, those poor little puppies need homes too.

 

I admit the thought crossed my mind.

 

But ultimately, I knew I would not be able to look at myself in the mirror in the morning if I did that.

 

I heard of a litter of puppies from a coworker who had bred her dog "just once." But I worked in an animal shelter and watched as all my favorite dogs eventually were put down (I had a tendency to like the hopeless cases; I began to wonder if I was a curse of some kind), and, well, I just knew too much to be able to feel comfortable about something like this. So I said no.

 

In the end what happened to me is that someone dumped the absolute last dog I would ever have chosen for myself on me, and I took him despite myself. Literally, in my head, as I took Solo's leash I heard a voice that said, "Just let this happen."

 

It wasn't what I planned on, but it also didn't compromise any of my values or beliefs and I knew I was taking a dog who literally did not have any other choices left. As you all know, in the end, it was the best thing that could have happened to me.

 

Most people are not lucky enough to have two once-in-a-lifetime dogs, but because I held out for Solo, I am.

 

Something I wrote on Solo's first anniversary:

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~soloriver/sologot.html

 

Solo is my heart. The dog I didn't want and wasn't looking for is the one who turned out to be Mine. The Right Dog isn't always the obvious one.

[Caroline]

as an aside, sometimes electronic training collars make a buzz first before a correction is given. I am not saying the fellow trained his dog that way, I am just saying that some collars do that and it is possible he uses the buzzing sound he makes as a reminder. It doesn't matter to me if I take the popular stance, but I am also surprised at the number of people on here that think this is ok. Especially without further research. Watch the man work his dog. Ask local open handlers if they have heard of this fellow. He may not trial, that's ok, but a man with a good working dog will often be known by the herding community. Charlie my older dog is my heart and soul. His breeder would have appeared similar to the situation described above. Worse yet, I ordered him sight unseen 14 years ago. He came on an airplane. I love him. Would I get another dog from her? No way! Just think about it. That is what people are asking. Get more information. Yes it is your decision in the end. I know and respect and am sorry for all you have been through.

Caroline

[Shoofly]

BTW, Dixie_Girl --

 

"I tell you this because, knowing what I know now, I probly wouldn't have bothered with them. I would be looking where I am looking now for another pup. Even though these people had sheep, and I watched both parents work, I believe they do more demonstrations and such than actual work or trialing(as no one has heard of them)."

 

There are several of us here who do know the folks you're talking about.

[Joan]

Originally posted by Shoofly:

BTW, Dixie_Girl --

There are several of us here who do know the folks you're talking about.

Aw, Robin beat me to it. At least, I think I know these breeders. Did you ask folks who have been doing this for a long time? When I started trialing, this couple was competing in almost every trial I went to. If I remember correctly, they had a working farm.

[Snorri the Priest]

You can tell your mind "No, that's not the way to do things!", but you can't tell your heart.

 

Snorri

[Root Beer]

I doubt I could say "no" to those eyes!!

[Katelynn & Gang]

Originally posted by SoloRiver:

You want a story about fate?

 

Literally, in my head, as I took Solo's leash I heard a voice that said, "Just let this happen."

 

As you all know, in the end, it was the best thing that could have happened to me.

 

Most people are not lucky enough to have two once-in-a-lifetime dogs, but because I held out for Solo, I am.

 

Solo is my heart. The dog I didn't want and wasn't looking for is the one who turned out to be Mine. The Right Dog isn't always the obvious one.

Wow . . . . . How true this is.

 

The part "Just let this happen." gave me people bumps.

 

Katelynn

[Kyrasmom]

Logically, this "breeder" albeit one-time-only should not be supported. The pups were bred for the wrong reasons even though the people may be very nice and responsible in their care of the puppies.

 

But sometimes it is a matter of fate so it could be an opportunity to do something positive for all of dog-kind. This litter is on the ground, so something should/will need to be done with it.

 

What about sitting down and having a heart to heart with the owners of the two dogs. There's nothing wrong with being thoughtful but precise in that this was not a well-thought out litter regardless of the intentions. Offer to help with spay/neuter agreements for the pups, it's obviously nothing that anyone of us can enforce but maybe it's something they've not considered. Tell them about the number of BC's in rescue and the often innane reasons for nice dogs ending up there.

 

The female is due to be spayed, what about the male? Does he have something to bring to the gene-pool besides more puppies? If the people are nice and responsible, they'll listen and learn with an open mind and even more open heart.

 

I do this all the time with people wanting me to take litters or remaining litters off their hands and I do it only under specific circumstances...such as the knowledge that these specific dogs will not add to the dog overpopulation problem in the future.

 

If they get upset and self-righteous, I would probably, with a very heavy heart, leave the pup behind but that's me and I'm in no position to be your judge or jury, so ultimately it's your decision. I just see a great opportunity to educate and maybe that is the "fate" that this pup has brought about in addition to filling a void in your obviously very loving heart.

 

And they do sound like very loving owners but then so am I and yet I should not breed my dogs either...even if they weren't spayed and neutered.

 

Maria

[Woodenlion]

Melanie, I had never read that before. I am at work crying like a baby. Thank you. You write so well... I was in that aisle with the two of you.

 

Toni

[Shoofly]

Maybe I'm being dense, but didn't Sarah say the male is a working farm dog, the breeder and the owner of the sire both plan to keep pups and that a couple of the others are going to working homes as well? Myabe this wasn't the ideal, perfect world situation and breeding, but it just doesn't sound that bad to me.

[RaisingRiver]

If SincereArtisan wants/is ready for this puppy then she should get it.

 

I have rescued EVERY dog I've ever owned execpt the BC I have now.

 

SA has looked at rescue (ie. Ice) and we all know she has rescued before. Therefore it is conclusive that she is not a 'bad' person. And the pup she wants is not from 'evil' people. And frankly if SA doesn't actually work her dogs who cares what lines it came from - the deed is done and the breeder is stopping.

 

But lets consider that she tradically lost all her dogs at once. SA is not only looking for a lifelong companion, but she is also looking to fill a VERY BIG void. If this pup that she was drawn too pulls at her heart and she feels she is ready for a puppy then GO FOR IT!

 

You only live once.

[Shoofly]

Here here! GO FOR IT!

[Joan]

Sarah,

 

A dear friend (who died in his sleep at age 60 last fall), believed there is no coincidence - that everything happens for a reason. He felt this way because of his religious beliefs, but I think a lot of people feel this way, regardless of their religious beliefs.

 

This is just too much to be coincidence!

 

There are very few, if any, perfect breedings. And as Robin said, this one doesn't sound so bad. And you said the puppies checked out okay with the vet.

 

That little girl is adorable. I think this is a good time to listen to your heart.

[Miztiki]

Sarah, if you are wise then you will ask these people alot of questions. You know what questions to ask and what things to consider.

 

If you ask these people alot of questions, carefully consider their answers, and think it all over and come to a conclusion with your heart and brain in agreement then that is all we can ask from people.

 

The "get her, she's cute!" mentality blows me away, and I didn't expect to see it in such force here. You would think that they would base their advice on more than cuteness and at least caution you to find out more about the breeding.

[RaisingRiver]

Miztiki-

 

That is the BEST supportive and still devil's advocate type response anyone could possibly give Sarah. That is exactly the kind of information she needs to hear to make the right decision for herself.

 

Kudos to you!

[mado]

Isn't this about adopting a living being , one who will give and get loving attention to its fellow human like few people are able do ...

I understand everything that has been said but the pup is still there , it's born and you can't make it go away . Is adoption (and the love that it implies) only about genealogy ?

Millions of kids would be out in the cold .

[RaisingRiver]

Hear! Hear!

[AfterThought]

"there was a song on the radio that went "It's something unpredictable, but in the end it's right- I hope you have the time of your life"

 

Kelpiegirl,

 

I love that Green Day song!!

[Miztiki]

It goes beyond that. It's about discouraging irresponsible breeding of dogs.

 

If people stopped buying irresponsibly bred puppies then people would stop breeding them.

 

Obviously the world will not change on the whole, but I know that my coming here to this board changed me and the way I see things, and I'm grateful for that.

 

Thanks RR, that means alot to me.

[Miztiki]

p.s. I had my tubes tied years ago because there are so many little humans out there who have no one.

 

I made that sacrifice because I love the human breed too.

[Caroline]

Good reply Miztiki! Look, Sarah, do what Miz said. I just get frustrated with some people doing what they "want" and then trying to justify it as "right" for the breed.

Caroline

I hope, you, Sarah, understand what I mean. You have been through the ringer and yes deserve happiness with a dog again. You need to decide for yourself.

Caroline

[SincereArtisan]

Wow. I never expected so *many* responses!

 

In the breeders defense--as I've had the chance to call her up and talk to her a while about the litter and her dogs--I really don't think they were necessarily very irresponsible about this breeding.

 

They had both the parents hips/eyes checked. Both parents were from healthy, working lineage. They waited until the mother was at an appropriate and well-developed age to breed her. They already had a list of 'approved' homes before breeding, with people who either knew full well the demands of a border collie, or already have owned, or currently own, a BC. They planned on keeping two puppies themselves. And it was and will remain a one time thing.

 

The puppy the woman keeps will go on to work in agility--where she hopes to include her son--and the puppy her boyfriend is taking will go on to work with the sire at his farm.

 

Also, with the asking price she has on her puppies, she will not even make back the amount of money she has poured into securing the healthy welfare of this breeding and the puppies. Her main concern was the puppies themselves, and finding them good, good homes, she said. So that rules out any sort of cash profit she could make on this.

 

While I don't promote every individual with healthy active dogs to go out and breed them...I would say that this woman at least did things in a responsible manner. Even if it was mainly to secure a couple puppies from her female's lines...she considered a lot before going through with it. Which is a lot more than most can say about the true variety of backyard breeders and puppy mills out there...

 

 

I'm still deciding on what to do. I have until next friday, when the pups will be 8 weeks old and ready to go home. I've still been looking at rescue, and even today I went to our local humaine society and did some dog-walking to scope out some of the needy subjects in there. While plenty got excercise, none caught my eye....

 

We'll see. Thank you all for all your help and all your advice. I should be going some time this weekend to see the sire of this litter do some work.

[Dixie_Girl]

Robin and Joan(NC) I think I may have made it sound like I had a bad taste in my mouth about the people I got Jackson from. Far from it. They were the absolute nicest people. They imported Jackson's dam from Ireland at the age of 2.5 yrs. They gave me a folder with all sorts of info in it on Border Collies. They gave me his worming schedule. They gave me the papers on both his parents. They seemed knowledgable as far as Border Collies were concerned and they took excelent care of the puppies. I had mentioned them to several people around here that I have met at trials, clinics, etc. and no one seemed to know them, so, much to perhaps my chargin, I just asumed they did not trial. I know that other than Jackson only two other pups were bought with the intent to work them. Just from what I have learned here and with talking with others did I make the comment of not buying from them again.

 

His name is Donald Thomas. And like I said, really great people. And if they do still trial, then that is MY mistake! Sometimes I think I know more than I do.

 

But I know I can always count on someone to straighten me out!

[SoloRiver]

Sarah,

 

I am going to be blunt. I think you are rationalizing.

 

You're going to do whatever you want to do. You've been through a lot, and no one here is going to judge you harshly for it.

 

This is at worst a backyard bred litter, and a best a sport breeding. As a rescuer you probably know that the vast majority of dogs, which is why there are so many unwanted dogs, come from these sorts of one-off breedings. No, it isn't the worst case scenario, but it's far from the best. I don't give credit for not being the worst a breeder could be. I would not tend to judge a breeder so critically about not being the best she could be -- but honestly -- when there are so many, SO MANY Border Collies out there who need homes, when they fill rescues, there is no excuse for producing this litter. It was all about "I want." "I want" a puppy from my female. That's nice and all, but it's also the reason almost every other backyard breeder out there gives for breeding the litter s/he shouldn't have bred.

 

Frankly, and I'm not saying this just because he is a homeless rescue dog, but if any dog you've run across recently had DESTINY written all over him, it was Maybe. Not only was the timing eerie, but his markings are exactly like Pi's and Raven's and there was just something about the look in his eye that made me think to myself, "Well, it's too early but we can't control these things and he was meant to be Sarah's dog."

 

When I got Solo, I had this vague idea that I wanted a little bitty black and white female. Solo is obviously anything but that. As I wrote in that essay, I spent a lot of time feeling like I'd been cheated right after I got Solo and wishing that I'd gotten some other dog, any other dog. Shortly after I got Solo, a breeder (a nice one) emailed me and offered me a pup from a recent litter that a buyer had backed out on. The puppy was a blue merle bitch and tiny and outgoing and fit every fantasy I had ever had about a Border Collie puppy. Puppies are hard to say no to, but I had to, because I was (as I felt at the time) saddled with Solo and had no time or heart (nor enough insanity) to say yes.

 

Undoubtedly, if that puppy had come along even a day before Solo, I would have that puppy now. And I'd be happy and all, I am sure.

 

But I wouldn't have Solo and I would have no idea what I'd missed out on. Oh my, what I would have missed out on.

 

Solo would probably be dead.

 

Sure, things happen and we can't control everything that happens to us -- you know that full well and so do I. But there are a lot of things we can control. I don't believe in doing things the easy way and then calling it "fate" just to avoid doing things the harder way, or the right way. That's what I call copping out.

 

Like I said, you are going to do what you want to do and no one, including me, is going to judge you harshly for it. You are a smart person, and a caring person, and I think you are capable of dealing with honest and blunt opinions. This is mine. I feel for you and wish you the best.

[nancy]

I think that to toss this particular person in the huge category of backyard breeder lessens the definition. This is not someone who will have another batch of puppies next month, or even next year. To equate her with real BYBs cheapens the terminology and lessens the disfavor in which we hold true BYBs.

 

Of course, breeding as she did was wrong. But it was a venial sin, not a cardinal one.

 

Once Sahrah has the puppy, she can consider the lecture on responsibility.

 

I'd honestly rather let this woman off lightly than risk having the pup go to the pound and get euthanized because a backyard full of 47 fighting pit bulls has to be held until the owner goes on trial and there are only 50 spaces available. Which often happens around here.

 

I guess I also don't really see the benefit of letting this puppy end up in the pound, then going to rescue, before adopting it. Sure, it just might make a backyard breeder stop breeding. But not likely. Because this one breeder is stopping anyhow. And the example will not stop any others. And the puppy might not survive the pound to get to a rescue to get to a home. And there's a home that wants here right now. There's a rescue basset in our neighborhood who was one hour from being dropped on the side of the highway. Luckily, our neighbors were home and able to go out at 11 PM to collect him from his fully-vetted and approved adopter.