Turbo4go Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 I hope I got this right. Here is Turbo, taken on his first birthday. He is a BIG boy, tipping the scales at 65 lbs, and stands almost 23" at the sholder. We are currently enrolled in an agility school, now into our 5th week. I do have a major problem with getting him to pay attention to me during class, what with all the other dogs around. He does great at home, and is real good, but everytime he gets around other dogs, obedience goes out the window. The problem is serious, and if I can't correct it, I'm afraid agility is out of the question. Any ideas or suggestions. I have tried the treats, but he'll even ignore sirloin steak and chicken when distracted by other dogs. Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LJS1993 Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 I hope I got this right. Here is Turbo, taken on his first birthday. He is a BIG boy, tipping the scales at 65 lbs, and stands almost 23" at the sholder. We are currently enrolled in an agility school, now into our 5th week. I do have a major problem with getting him to pay attention to me during class, what with all the other dogs around. He does great at home, and is real good, but everytime he gets around other dogs, obedience goes out the window. The problem is serious, and if I can't correct it, I'm afraid agility is out of the question. Any ideas or suggestions. I have tried the treats, but he'll even ignore sirloin steak and chicken when distracted by other dogs. Dennis Man he is a big boy. Is he pure BC or mixed? Do bone stock BC's get to that size? Either way he is one majestic animal. He has the look of a pack Alpha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon M Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 Turbo is a great lookin dog! and huge at 65 lbs lol. Im glad my BC wont get that big Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 Turbo is beautiful. Is he just one year old now? How much training have you done with him before you started this class? Did you do a lot of obedience and really work on keeping his focus on you plus having a fantastic recall? I wouldn't say that agility isn't in the cards for you, but probably he needs a lot more foundation work in a less stimulating environment. If you haven't had him in an obedience class -- where he'll need to listen to you around other dogs, that is the first step. For some dogs, especially young dogs whose brains are still growing, you really need to build up to something like expecting them to stay focused on what you want while there are a bunch of dogs around doing exciting things. A really great book for training agility is Shaping Success by Susan Garrett. You can order it from Cleanrun.com. If there was only one book I could recommened for agility, especially for someone with a high drive dog that needed to learn control (while keeping the drive), it would be that book. I think you'll find a wealth of information there plus it is fun to read how Susan took her over the top BC to the highest levels of competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bindi Mom Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 Nothing to add except I heart Turbo! He is gorgeous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweet_ceana Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 Ceana doesn't respond to food when training either. We always have to have a frisbee or a ball to use as a reward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anda Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 What a beautiful boy! Mine is the same hight, but about 42-45 lb at 1.5 years of age. I like big boys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo4go Posted June 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 Thanks Everyone ! I know he is beautiful, and we are proud of him. I'll try to answer everyones questions. Is he a purebred, YES, and ABCA registered. His father, Clifford from Alymer, Ontario, is also very big. Of the litter of 7 puppies, only Turbo and one other pup are this size. He turned ONE on June 11. Never having had a BC before, I thought he was "normal", that is untill we attended a USDAA competition about a month ago. I couldn't believe how much smaller all the BC's were that were competing. Turbo had obedience training starting when he was 12 weeks old, and he excelled in all aspects. On a one on one basis, he is excellent, focused and ready to do whatever I ask of him. Add another dog, and he becomes a Jeckle & Hyde, with a mind on everything else but me. It is very frustrating. He started agility training here at home at 8 months, and is now good at jumps (4 set at 16"), 8 weave poles with only a 2" stagger, the tunnel, the A Frame and the dog walk. We still have a problem with the pause table, and haven't done the tetter as of yet. He will do all of this in sequence, BUT only when we are alone. Add other dogs, like our current class of 10, and I can't get him to do 2 jumps in sequence. His size could be the problem, as it is quite possible he feels he is the Alpha Male, as suggested. I will try to get the book by Susan Garret. I could use all the help I can get. If I ever get him focused, he'll be a Champion ! Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Oop Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 Turbo is sure a good looking pup! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo4go Posted June 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t132/Tu...16Turbo0008.jpg Here is another photo of Turbo, which shows his size better Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon M Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 at 10 months old my dog is 35lbs and 19.5" at the shoulders. I think he'll top out at 40lbs or so and 20" at the shoulders. So he's not small, but I think your pup could man-handle him lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LJS1993 Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 Man Turbo is a "G" among Border Collies. By the way I hope some people on this forum know what a "G" means. If not it means stud, tall dark and handsome, Cary Grant, Rock Hudson (except not gay), Ronald Reagan, etc...whoever your object of a big handsome stud male may be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moss Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 Turbo is lovely. My Moss is a huuuuuge boy too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoku's mum Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 Turbo is beautiful! No expert here, but we are in beginning agility, too, and have a similar situation with the focus issue. What is helping us is lots of 'mini' trainings at home (keeps Hoku on his toes with tricks and fun stuff) which we practice at the class, too. I work really hard keeping his attention on me, and tricks and keeping him thinking and guessing whats next has helped a lot with his distraction on the other dogs. I really try to not let him even start obsessing on the other dogs, if I don't 'loose' him at the start of class, I have a better chance of keeping him focused on me through out the class. The other thing is we play agility at home and have his dog pals come over. We let them romp and play and blow off steam, then do quick sessions (maybe 10 minutes) of each dog getting to run the 'course' (very goofy homemade stuff, but it works!) while the other dog has to sit at the side and wait their turn. Then more play time, and then run the course again. It has really helped his focus at class, and our 'teamwork' is getting stronger. Hope this helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smileyzookie Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 Beautiful boy! Riven is the same way. She is good, ALWAYS. Until we're around other dogs. She just goes deaf. Her selective hearing kicks in and she could give a rats patootie that you've got anything...treats, ball anything. She is getting better. It just takes time, and lots of patience. I used to just lose my temper and drag her off. Now, I have better energy and just dont accept no for an answer. Also, I never let her off leash if there is any chance of another dog around. Of course, that would be a bit hard in agility lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth G Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 What a gorgeous, beautiful boy!! My big ol boy is 1.5 yrs and 49lbs! Our girl Pepper is 50lbs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo4go Posted June 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 I am relieved to hear I am not the only one to have a BC with "ADD" (Attention Deficit Disorder) , which is what they'd call it in children. I do like the suggestions and tips, and we are doing allot of work at home. He is young, and I think testing his limits, and mine . My son has 2 dogs, a German Shepherd and a Husky, both of which are capable of putting Turbo in his place, so I think we'll be spending more quality time with the 3 dogs and see if that doesn't help. Up to now, they are rarely together. Being only 12 months, maybe it is just a stage that he'll grow out of, kind of like the "Terrible Two's" Lets hope. Just in case anyone is interested, following the breeders suggestion, Turbo is NOT being neutered, so in the future, he will be available for stud service. Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 He does great at home, and is real good, but everytime he gets around other dogs, obedience goes out the window. The problem is that you're seeing it as only two situations: "at home" (with no other dogs present) or "around other dogs". There are many settings that are in between those two, and you need to build focus gradually in those other settings before expecting focus in the high-stimulation environment of a group agility class. At first, Susan Garrett took Buzz to class, but never went in the door. It was hard enough for Buzz to learn self-control OUTSIDE the building where all the fun was happening. Only after he mastered that did she start working with him inside. I'm even simplifying this -- there were many intermediate situations where Buzzy worked on self control between those two. Can Turbo focus when other dogs are sitting quietly at a distance outdoors, like in a big park? What about when they're walking at a distance? Running at a distance? Playing ball at a distance? Start with a stationary distraction dog and keep increasing your distance from the distraction dog until you find the distance Turbo can succeed at. Doesn't matter if its a few hundred yards -- that's just where you start. Reward him, then decrease the distance slightly, or increase the distraction slightly (e.g. from distant dog sitting to distant dog walking calmly). Don't decrease distance and increase distraction at once, and don't increase the challenge if he's not succeeding. Step by step, you'll get there. Agility is all about learning to train your way through the challenges that you face with your particular dog. If you quit now, you'll never learn how to surmount any of 'em Just in case anyone is interested, following the breeders suggestion, Turbo is NOT being neutered, so in the future, he will be available for stud service. It would be a shame to terminate his linage. Oh man, I just saw this. Dennis, why don't you simplify your life and edit that sentence out of your last post? The subject of which border collies should be bred is about the most inflammatory topic on this board. You won't have to search very long to see all kinds of strong feelings on that subject. Read for a while and consider whether you really want to have that discussion right now. Go ahead and keep Turbo intact if you want. Just think twice, for now at least, before saying the rest of what you wrote above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon M Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 Oh man, I just saw this. Dennis, why don't you simplify your life and edit that sentence out of your last post? Um, you just quoted him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 Um, you just quoted him... Yep, and if he removes it from his post (just before mine), it will be obvious to all that he made a conscious decision to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo4go Posted June 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 Yep, and if he removes it from his post (just before mine), it will be obvious to all that he made a conscious decision to do so. Quite frankly, I don't understand the problem with keeping Turbo intact, as it was recommended by the breeder, NOT by me. I guess there are some things I still don't understand about the BC community. I don't have a problem with keeping him intact, as he is a beautiful example of the breed, and when the time comes, it will be done only by qualified BC breeders, who are very educated and adhere to strict conditions. I haven't been on this board for very long, so maybe there are some things I don't know about. You should at least explain what the problem is, and not just tell me to edit my post. That would be helpfull. I do like the advice on gradually getting Turbo used to working, with other dogs at a distance. He is much better in our agility class if we are working away from the other dogs, and only gets distracted if one of the other dogs starts to act up, but then it gets my attention also . It is for that type of good advice that I post here. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelb'smum Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 Please read This before going any farther Turbo is Beautiful dog, HUGE and beautiful, but he should ONLY be bred if he has proven his working ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LJS1993 Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 The problem is that you're seeing it as only two situations: "at home" (with no other dogs present) or "around other dogs". There are many settings that are in between those two, and you need to build focus gradually in those other settings before expecting focus in the high-stimulation environment of a group agility class. At first, Susan Garrett took Buzz to class, but never went in the door. It was hard enough for Buzz to learn self-control OUTSIDE the building where all the fun was happening. Only after he mastered that did she start working with him inside. I'm even simplifying this -- there were many intermediate situations where Buzzy worked on self control between those two. Can Turbo focus when other dogs are sitting quietly at a distance outdoors, like in a big park? What about when they're walking at a distance? Running at a distance? Playing ball at a distance? Start with a stationary distraction dog and keep increasing your distance from the distraction dog until you find the distance Turbo can succeed at. Doesn't matter if its a few hundred yards -- that's just where you start. Reward him, then decrease the distance slightly, or increase the distraction slightly (e.g. from distant dog sitting to distant dog walking calmly). Don't decrease distance and increase distraction at once, and don't increase the challenge if he's not succeeding. Step by step, you'll get there. Agility is all about learning to train your way through the challenges that you face with your particular dog. If you quit now, you'll never learn how to surmount any of 'em Oh man, I just saw this. Dennis, why don't you simplify your life and edit that sentence out of your last post? The subject of which border collies should be bred is about the most inflammatory topic on this board. You won't have to search very long to see all kinds of strong feelings on that subject. Read for a while and consider whether you really want to have that discussion right now. Go ahead and keep Turbo intact if you want. Just think twice, for now at least, before saying the rest of what you wrote above. Oh great, Dennis is going to get blackballed now!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo4go Posted June 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 Please read This before going any farther Turbo is Beautiful dog, HUGE and beautiful, but he should ONLY be bred if he has proven his working ability. I have met over 20 people that own Border Collies, including breeders and trainers. Not one has a flock of sheep nor a herd of cattle. Their BC's are used for Dog Sports and other activities. I do not have any cattle or sheep, nor has Turbo ever seen one, and I doubt he ever will, but that does not mean he is not a very good, hard working and intelligent dog. I got a BC because they are intelligent, hard working, and energetic. Prior to Turbo, I owned Springer Spaniels, but it is very difficult to get a Springer with a whole undocked tail, due to almost the same narrow way of thinking. For Springers it is called Breed Standard . In todays world, it is called Animal Crulity and the practice is being banned in many countries, but unfortunately not in North America, YET! I shudder to think owners and breeders of BC,s are also so narrow minded and living in the past. If this means getting "BLACKBALLED" here, then so be it. I'd rather associate with people that are living in the 21st centuty, and not the 19th century. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borderlicious Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 How is breeding border collies for working ability "living in the past"? Like it or not, these dogs are still tremendously useful and widely used as stockdogs. Just because you have no use for them doesn't mean other people don't. Breeding away from their purpose isn't doing the breed any favors. I do dog sports with my border collies. One of them is training as my service dog at the tender age of 6 months and is handling it beautifully. They are also very good, hardworking dogs - but good temperaments and intelligence aren't what make the breed. You can get a good dog in just about any breed or mix. The most helpful, pleasant dog (as a working dog and as a companion) I had was a Chow mix from the shelter... Border collies are stockdogs, and they've always been stockdogs - people can use them for different jobs (because some of the qualities that make them good stockdogs [intelligence, responsiveness, speed, agility] also make them good at just about anything else) but that doesn't change what the breed is. Aside from their ability to work livestock, border collies aren't particularly unique as a breed. So when you throw out the stock work, what do you have? Just another dog. Maybe a wonderful pet and companion, or a great sport partner, but probably not an exemplary border collie. And I say this fondly, as I don't know a lot about using dogs to work stock, either. I'm still learning. You say Turbo is a beautiful example of the breed, but if he's never been trained to work livestock, how do you judge his quality? Just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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