Getting a solid stop/down

[Guest kimkathan]

Any advice on getting a solid stop/down? I have a 4 1/2 year old female who I have been trialing for 2 years. She has done quite well in both famr and trial situations, but could do much better if she were to stop when I told her. Away from sheep she will drop on a dime, but around sheep I think she thinks they are going to get away. She is a very pushy little dog who will stop eventually, usually 3-5 steps after, and by that point it is a compleatly different situation than when I gave the command. I have tried voice tone changing, running up the field, and throwing objects like milk jugs near her to get her attention. I have been told by Cindi Hayden that she hears me, but is not acknowledging me. This is most likely very true. The largest problems I'm having is at the top of the lift, through the panels and at the pen. She is getting better on her pace, but if I could stop her and allow the sheep to drift off at a slow pace and/or gather themselves, me and the dog for a second, we'd be better off. At the pen she stays back far enough, but bounces on her square flanks and rattles the sheep. In short I REALLY would like a solid stop/down. Any help would be appreciated.

[Guest Carol Campion]

One of the greatest reasons I see dogs not stopping when asked is from asking a dog to stop and then asking it to do somethin gelse before you give it a chance to stop.

 

Dogs don't know English and so they attach a behavior to a sound. The sounds are our words. Or our whistles. It doesn't matter what words we say, but being human, we use words that have meaning for us.

 

Picture this. You teach a dog to lie down off sheep with food or somthing. You know it knows the proper behavior for the word. You take it to sheep. It's instincts get turned on and the off sheep behavior that we taught doesn't look or feel quite the same. Everything is moving for the dog—you—sheep—and there are lots of other things going on. So it is very different feeling situation than the "lie down" you taught in your kitchen or back yard.

 

You ask for a stop on sheep. In the beginning, we as trainers and dog owners are very unsure of ourselves. So the sheep move and the dog reacts. We ask the dog to stop to get control and to give us a chance to think. The dog doesn't do it because it is all different here or maybe it does do it but we second guess ourselves and think "Oh, I shouldn't have laid him down" and so go directly into giving a flank or some other command to fix our poor judgement.

 

What does this boil down to for the dog?

 

The words "lie down" are given and quickly another command. So the dog never gets to do the behavior and goes right on to the next behavior requested. It doesn't take long to have this sequence become his meaning of the command "lie down". Remember, he has no understanding of language like we do. He only knows to associate a behavior with a sound—a word. So we unteach him to lie down by not enforcing that behavior and by immediately giving him another command.

 

Picture this scenario. It is a good expamle.

 

I have a 5 month old pup. At 8 weeks I taught him to sit with food. He is clever and got that within a few hours. After I few days I would say "Sit". Once he did, I began to ask him to "lie down". When he laid down, I gave him the food. Being a very clever boy, after a few days, when I would offer him food he would go directly to lying down. To him the word sit brought on the entire sequence for him.

 

So with your dog, if you often said, "Lie down" and then asked him up or flanked him before he had a chance to stop, you may have created a new meaning of the words "lie down". It doesn't take long at all for this to happen with some of them.

 

It is important to give a command and wait a few seconds before giving another. That way each one has achance to have an effect—to be carried out.

 

Now, I don't know if you are guity of the above. Many of us are or have been. But guilty or not, it is something to think about when teachng commands.

 

Now—what to do about it?

 

Well, here ar some things to try.

 

You can change the word. Ask him to sit and see if he stops better. If he does, don't abuse it and make sure he stops. Then put a new stop whistle to it and no one will know he is not stopping on the word "lie" but the word "sit". That often works.

 

Look at the places where he is not stopping. It could be he is afraid of the sheep getting away. Try to analyze when it is. Then try to set up sessins with just that—like going through a panel and ask him to sit or lie in lots of places. Make sure you let him carry out the stop. Don't give another command til he does—no ,matter what. Let the sheep get away if need be. If he is really bad, put a long lin on him and catch him in the act of not stopping.

 

I often will take them by the collar or scruff, pick them up and carry them back to where I first asked thm to stop. If he isn't stopping at the top, don't let him fetch the sheep. Don't reward him or make a behavior sequence of not stopping. If he doesn't stop at the top, go and get him and make him stop. No fetch allowed. It could be that you allowed not stopping so much that to him a stop whistle at the top means "keep on coming".

 

You could go back to wearing and just before or as you say "Lie down" you move toward him and raise a stick or a hat or a feedbag or something to make him physically halt, it will help affirm what you want him to understand the word as meaning.

 

Do you follow my train of thought here?

 

Try to analyze when and where he is not stopping and see if there was anything you were inadvertantly doing to encourage him to not stop without knowing you were doing it!

 

Try not to yell. It only hardens the dog. Ask quietly wih authority and save your big voice for a big correction.

 

Let me know if any of this helps.

[Guest kimkathan]

Carol-

Thanks for the reply. I'll have to try it in a week or two. Right now my dog is just getting over Vestibular disorder, and is having a bit of a hard time controling anything she does. When She's a bit more stable, I'll try this and let you know. Yes, I wasw guilty of reacting after the down command with another command too soon, as a new handler "I" would panic and think the sheep were getting away, now that I'm getting a feel for I things are better. I have tried changing commands beofre from down to stand and that did help for a while, but it seems that she is more receptive to different words, almost like she associates certain ones with a negative. I think I'll keep messing around with it some.

Thanks again