All I know about BCs is: one's coming to my house this weekend! Help, please!

[painted_ponies]

Well, since I've been lurking for a couple of days, I do know a little more than that. For instance, I know some of you have BCs who peacefully coexist with your cats, horses, and even a Lhasa Apso. So I'm hoping y'all can give me some advice towards obtaining the same result.

 

I've been looking for a dog who can help me out on the farm - right now my main job is converting four acres of bean field into horse habitat so my two geldings can live at home instead of at the boarding stable. After that, I'd like a dog who could look after the boys while I'm at work, since I live in the back of beyond and there'll be no one around when I'm not home. I'd like a dog who'd enjoy going along on trail rides, and just generally tagging along with me wherever I go.

 

A couple of friends have a three or four year old spayed BC bitch, whom they found running alongside the highway a couple of years ago. No one claimed her at the animal shelter, so "Lady" went home with my friends. They're cattle dog people though, and would like to find Lady a home where she'd get a little more individual attention. So they've offered to let her stay with me this weekend and see how things work out. She knows her basic obedience commands, is house-trained, plays a wicked game of frisbee :cool: , and is an all around sweet girl with nice manners. She has already learned that horses aren't for herding, courtesy of my friend's rather assertive paint gelding, and she loves to go for rides in the truck.

 

I have two tiny housedogs - a Lhasa and a feist -three housecats, one of whom is intermittently possessed by the spirit of Evel Kneivel , and an ancient Great Dane who lives outdoors.

 

Do y'all think a BC might be the right sort of dog for my situation? Is she likely to hurt my little dogs and cats? What precautions should I take? Any other advice greatly appreciated.

[Tammy525]

Proceed slowly on a leash. I would keep her separated from all creatures less ferocious than she until you know for sure.

[painted_ponies]

Thanks, Tammy, that's a good idea. I wasn't going to leave Lady unsupervised indoors, of course, but she's so incredibly quick at catching (and killing :eek: ) her frisbee that I think an accident could occur even in my presence. I'll just keep her attached to me at first.

 

She doesn't seem at all ferocious at her house, but she's the lowest-ranking dog, behind the two cattle dogs. I've noticed she seems much more confident when her cattle dog brothers are elsewhere, so she may be different at my house.

[Tammy525]

She may be different with your horses as well, maybe even more so given she was with a dominant horse. She might see your horses as a great opportunity to finally boss someone bigger than she!

 

Or she may be the most tolerant, polite dog you have ever met.

 

I would still be very cautious with all introductions of the two and four legged variety.

[Sue R]

I've been looking for a dog who can help me out on the farm ...I'd like a dog who could look after the boys while I'm at work...I'd like a dog who'd enjoy going along on trail rides, and just generally tagging along with me wherever I go.

If you'd like company while you are active, there is nothing better than a Border Collie, if you are willing to fulfill the needs of an intelligent, active companion.

 

If you want a "watchdog", a Border Collie is probably not the best choice. They are generally not "barky" or defensive of home property. Leaving a Border Collie outside (in my experience) provides no "protection" for anything, and may open a Pandora's Box of problems.

 

You mention an "ancient Great Dane" that lives outdoors. A Border Collie shouldn't "live outdoors". It should live with you, and I hope that's what you will do if you adopt this nice-sounding dog.

 

A loose Border Collie left to its own devices will come up with "fun" things to do, and you probably won't like what it chooses - digging holes, working your horses or any neighbor's stock, chasing deer, chasing vehicles, rolling in dead stuff, etc. It would be a tragedy waiting to happen (hit by vehicle, shot by hunter, shot by irate neighbor with stock its pestered, etc.).

 

Some Border Collies are fine with horses and trail rides, and some either want to work the horse or may be frightened of it. I've had all three, the trail companion, the "herd the horse" dog, and the "that horse snorted at me and I am out of here" dog.

 

You will have to see how she does with the existing members of your menagerie. Tammy gives very good advice to use a leash initially. Do remember that some dogs behave very differently when on or off the leash and exposed to new and strange animals - they can be more aggressive when confined by a leash (or more courageous, it depends) so you will need to take care in checking out her reactions to your cats, dog, and horses.

 

As for rides in the truck, please see that she is inside the cab (a seatbelt or anchored crate is safest) or, if in the bed, confined by a safely anchored crate or tether system. Too many nice dogs get "bounced out" when going down country roads or around sharp turns, and are killed, maimed, or lost.

 

I don't mean to sound like a pessimist and take all the fun out of your excitement, but I have learned by hard experience that safety helps avert tragedy.

 

Best wishes and I hope this works out for both of you!!!!

[painted_ponies]

Tammy - Good point. I will proceed with caution. Since it'll be some months before I can bring the horses home, I plan to take Lady (no offense to anyone, but I'm gonna have to change that name! ) out to the boarding stable with me and hopefully they'll be well used to each other by the time they live together. The horses are very accustomed to dogs in general, thanks to the tribe that live at the stable.

 

Sue - no I don't think you're being a pessimist at all. TBH, I'd sort of given up on the idea of Lady's hanging around the farm unsupervised after I read BC's have sighthound in their background. IME, loose sighthounds tend to run (no pun intended) into just the sort of problems you describe. I am about a mile from the nearest paved road with more than the occasional car, but still . . .. :eek:

 

As far as trail rides, I'll start off-leash training with her after she's had a chance to settle in, and we'll see how she does with that before progressing further.

 

Don't worry, Lady - actually I'm thinking of calling her Beryl, after the color of her eyes - will live indoors with me. The Dane doesn't, but she does live just outside the back door, in a half-acre fenced enclosure with free access to an enclosed porch with overhead fans. Samantha (the Great Dane) was my recently- and dearly- departed GSD's companion. Since he despised being indoors, she's spent all her eleven years outdoors with him.

 

I cringe so at the sight of a loose dog riding in the bed of a truck that I almost run off the road sometimes. But out my way, people transport their children like that so I don't suppose I can expect them to treat their dogs much different. Mine, however, ride in the cab.

[Tammy525]

Sounds like you have some idea of what you're getting into, I am glad you have given up the idea of leaving her to "watch".

 

As to the truck bed issue, a friend's brother who is a vet said, sad but true, that's what keeps him in business. (not said in a positive way, he is horrified by the idea).

 

Sue always has good advice, I would listen to her for sure.

 

Will your Great Dane ever get to live inside? Or he just doesn't like to be inside? FYI, our BC/lab mix is MISERABLE left alone. He was very unhappy before we got our IF to be in his dog yard if we were outside but not in his yard. He doesn't spend any time at all outside by himself (he will go by himself to relieve outside, but that has taken some work to build trust that he will be let in immediately after he is done)

[Tammy525]

Sorry, forgot this.. You might try Lady Beryl until she gets used to her new name. And also the "name game" where you carry treats in your pocket and say her name about 50 times a day. Every time she looks at you in response she gets a treat. This is an easy way to work on recall as well, I have taken to ALWAYS carrying dog treats in my pockets, it keeps Scout focused on me all the time. I can call him from anywhere and he comes running.

[painted_ponies]

Tammy - no, although I feel sorry for Samantha being alone, it's unfortunately not possible for her to live inside. She is extremely dog-aggressive and killed my Labrador Retriever some years ago. I was advised to have her PTS then, but since she was fine with the GSD (and I never thought she'd outlive him), putting her outdoors with him seemed the better option. Even if it weren't for the other four-footed mammals, my husband has strong objections to her coming inside as she is something of a blunderbuss.

 

Yep, the one advantage of the name Lady is that it's easy to pair with another name for the transition time. I once called a chow "Brandy Pagan" for two weeks - even for a Southerner, that was something of a mouthful.

 

I hadn't thought of the treat game, though - good idea. :cool:

 

I have wondered what my best option is for the new girl while I'm away at work. I have a four foot fence, well, pen really, it's only 10' by 10', that I use as an exercise pen for the tiny dogs. But I don't have a lot of confidence the BC would stay in it all day alone. I've been advised by her present owners not to leave her unsupervised in the house. I doubt she is crate-trained, but I suppose I could do that. Do you think it would stress her to be in a crate for an entire workday, e.g. eight hours?

[smileyzookie]

Originally posted by Tammy525:

And also the "name game" where you carry treats in your pocket and say her name about 50 times a day. Every time she looks at you in response she gets a treat.

This worked amazingly well for Rivendell when we got her. I have no clue what her real name was, but she knows it's Riven now, and she comes running

 

Good luck with your BC:)

[JacknKegsDad]

One thing to remember with ANY dog on a leash is that you are cutting out the option of "flight" (as in...run away/escape) in situations where they may be fearful/apprehensive.

 

This can lead to severe aggression as their only option is to "fight".

 

Who they choose to be aggressive to is a bit of a crap shoot.

[Sue R]

I really need to clarify my earlier remarks because I "shot from the hip" while making some assumptions, and so have made some misleading statements. I apologize for doing that.

 

I should not have said that a Border Collie (or any other "suitable" dog) couldn't live outside in the right conditions.

 

It was my feeling for your situation was that Lady wasn't going to really be a working dog, but more of a companion. I also felt that you intended the dog to be outside to be a watchdog of sorts, along with a riding companion. It seemed like Lady was used to being inside in her current home.

 

What I was trying to avoid was you getting a Border Collie with the idea of keeping it as an outside dog - in other words, a loose dog without supervision, either when you were home and/or not home.

 

For folks in the right location (isolated farm/ranch off the road) and people who kennel outside with reasonable facilities, an outside life for a working dog (or maybe any other dog) would be fine as long as that dog has reasonable housing and suitable work/play/free time outside the kennel.

 

As for crating and a long day at work - Lady/Beryl is plenty old enough to be able to be crated for an 8 to 10 hour day, as long as she has good mental and physical exercise and companionship at other times. There are many threads on crate training on these boards, so I won't elaborate.

 

It sounds to me like you have everything well thought out and that Lady/Beryl will have a marvelous home with you if it works out for all concerned.

[lance]

I found your questions and answers by forum members very entertaining and informative to read.

I've had my Border Collie (Bandit) since Thanksgiving. I got him at a shelter. After my Greatdane(Mindy) passed. One month shy of turning 11yrs old. I always thought I would stay with Greatdane breed. Loved their size and gentle nature. I loved Mindy so much that I did not think it would be fair to get another Dane cause I would make comparisons.

When I found Bandit at the shelter, I fell in love with him almost instantly. I visited him for several days before being able to adopt him on Thanksgiving Day. I never even knew what a Border Collie was until I researched the Breed on the computer after seeing him at the Shelter. I have no regrets. I have fallen in love with Bandit and the Breed. As Mindy was, Bandit is with me all the time.

Good luck with your decision of getting Lady.

One of my first dogs as a child was named Lady.

[painted_ponies]

JKND - now that you mention it, I have had the problem you describe trying to introduce two dogs on a leash. And given that my two tinies can be "full of themselves", Lady may feel trapped and threatened. What if I have my husband take the two little ones for a leash walk outdoors and walk along beside them with Lady on her leash, then move indoors once everyone's more comfortable with each other?

 

Sue, you're absolutely right, Lady will be mostly a companion, not really a working dog. In fact, I've only ever seen one sheep in SC - I'm not sure they do well in our hot, humid climate. I wouldn't mind giving herding a try, though - looks amazing! :cool: I think there are some herding people in the SC/NC mountains - too bad I'm all the way at the coast.

 

At her present home, Lady is outdoors during the day in a four foot fenced enclosure, about 75' x 50', with her two cattle dog brothers. All three come inside once their people get home. She is fine outdoors off leash with her people - they live in a rural area with a big yard and pasture but their land fronts on a (sparsely travelled) paved road. My place is a bit more remote - my only road frontage is on a single lane dirt road.

 

Still, there's a two lane state highway only a mile away, so I'm afraid to leave Lady in an enclosure outdoors that she might be unhappy with at first - another thing I've learned about BC's is that if they really want out of a fence, they're going! :eek:

 

Maybe I'll start with the crate during the day and try her in the small fence for short periods while I'm home to peek out the windows. Or what about giving her the guest room while I'm gone? After I've dog-proofed it, of course. Would that be asking for trouble?

 

Lance - I'm sorry to read about your losing your Dane. Although a companion like her can never be replaced, it sounds as though Bandit is a wonderful addition to your life. How appropriate you got him on Thanksgiving! Re the size thing, though, I'd actually prefer a smaller dog this time. My GSD developed degenerative myelitis during the last year of his life and had to be carried some times -that experience pretty much put me off big dogs for good. I'm hoping Lady will prove to be as agile and athletic a companion as the GSD but in a more manageable-sized package.

 

I used to have a dog named Lady, too - she was a Great Dane. That's one reason I need to change this girl's name. Today I'm considering modifying it to Lainey instead of making such a drastic change as Beryl. It's more to avoid confusing my friends, all of whom have called her Lady for the past two years, than the dog. They're not quite as quick to learn new things as Lady, sometimes.

[Shetlander]

Hi! I'm the one with a BC and Lhasa (also a perfect sheltie). In my house, it's the Lhasa who is usually the instigator when they start "poking" at each other. Since my Lhasa is generally low activity and snarky, Quinn never chases him. Not much opportunity and too much like stepping on a snake if he caught him. It helps that Quinn is a super friendly, pretty submissive puppy. With Lady, you'll be able to see how she responds to small animals and proceed from there. Although Quinn had exposure to cats at his breeder's, he hasn't been around them since he was 9 weeks old so I'm not certain how he'd respond to them. He does like really small dogs (he really likes all dogs, though the Lhasa gets on his nerves), so I think he'd probably be fine with cats. Has Lady had much exposure to small animals, do you know?

 

I agree with your assessment that a 4 foot fence isn't the best enclosure for a BC. Quinn was hopping from a standstill onto 31 inch tables at less than 6 months, so I know he could easily get over a fence that height. Unless Lady has a huge problem with being crated, that would be your best bet when you leave the house, at least starting out. Have your friends ever left her loose in their house while they were out and if so, how did she act? Most of my dogs have been ok to leave loose in the house by the time they were two. Otherwise, they are contained in a room or a crate if I'm think there might be damage/soiling. Again, this is something you'll get a feeling for as you get to know Lady.

 

Quinn is my first BC, but at not quite 9 months old he is very barky and is a pretty alert watch dog. Some of this he may have picked up from the other dogs, though I think he's a bit of a barker by nature (we're working on this). I have a friends with BC's and it seems about half the dogs are good watch dogs. So it varies.

 

Let us know how Lady fits in. Quinn has been just a blast to have around, once we got past our rough first few weeks together.

[juliepoudrier]

painted_ponies,

There are plenty of sheep all over SC (and good trainers/handlers too)! I have a good friend who lives in Pawley's Island (he's actually on the mainland but the address is Pawley's Island) and he keeps sheep on a farm in Georgetown. Is that anywhere near you?

 

J.

[painted_ponies]

Shetlander - LOL, that sounds like a Lhasa all right! Arlo, my Lhasa, can be quite a bit like stepping on a snake sometimes. :eek: But he is sporadically very active - mostly he lies around but will occasionally engage in running mock battles with my feist that sound ferocious. Normally he's a very reasonable fellow - as long as everyone follows his rules. I guess we'll see if Lady's prepared to play along.

 

Lady used to live with a very low-activity snarky Persian cat. To my knowledge, unless it was before she was abandoned, she's never been around little dogs.

 

I don't believe her present owners have ever left her alone in their house. To do so would involve leaving Lady and the two cattle dogs alone in the house, and my friends think there'd be little left to come back to if they did that.

 

BTW, are you in the Shetlands? I have a dear Internet friend there - her BC (she just calls him a sheepdog, but from his pictures, he's a BC all right ) is much in demand among her neighbors for rounding up their sheep and moving them.

 

My friends tell me Lady at least sounds like quite the watchdog - she may be copying her cattle dog brothers, though, who really are fairly fierce watchdogs at times.

 

I definitely will keep y'all posted as to how Lady gets on over the weekend!

 

julie - yes, Georgetown is pretty close to me! It's about an hour and a half drive southeast from my farm. I had no idea there were sheep and herding people around here - do you suppose they hold trials or would let me come watch them work sometime? :cool:

[lance]

Lainey sounds close enough to Lady I think that she will not have much trouble answering to it.

When I adopted Mindy, who was 4yrs old at the time, her name was Minnie. I did not like the name for several reasons. One, she was not a mini. Two and three, I never cared for Minnie Pearl or minnie mouse.

I once dated a girl name Lainey.(Elaine)

 

I would not leave Lainey locked up in a room for long. I've read BC can dig through a drywall very easily. I've never had to crate train any other dog I've had before until now. I will not leave him home alone unless he is in his crate. Or in the car for that matter. He enjoys chewing on my seat belts.

I too thought it was interesting that I got Bandit on Thanksgiving day. The shelter had to keep Bandit for 10 days.(13th-23th) They were open from 9am-12pm.Thanksgiving day. Also I had hoped my Dane, Mindy could make it to Thanksgiving. Last year Thankgiving fell on her birthday. Nov 27th

Good luck!

[Shetlander]

Originally posted by painted_ponies:

Arlo, my Lhasa, can be quite a bit like stepping on a snake sometimes. :eek: But he is sporadically very active - mostly he lies around but will occasionally engage in running mock battles with my feist that sound ferocious. Normally he's a very reasonable fellow - as long as everyone follows his rules. I guess we'll see if Lady's prepared to play along.

Aren't Lhasas awful? Chili was so difficult about bringing Quinn into the pack that I (once again) said I will not be getting another Lhasa because both my Lhasas have been incredibly jealous of other animals. However, I really missed having one of these passionate little guys around for the 2 years I went without one. Anyway, Chili's only 3, so hopefully I have many years ahead with his demanding, devoted self. Lady sounds like maybe she can roll with the punches, so it could work out well.

 

BTW, are you in the Shetlands?

No, I live in Michigan. The name comes from my fondness for Shelties -- who now run neck and neck with BC's as my favorite breed.

[juliepoudrier]

Painted_Ponies,

I will call my friend in Pawley's Island and get back to you on that. He doesn't hold trials--probably doesn't have enough sheep and the farm is being rented from someone else. I do travel down there on occasion and work dogs with him. I don't think he'd mind you coming down, so I will see if I can't hook y'all up!

 

J.

[painted_ponies]

lance - tunnelling through drywall? :eek: Thanks for the heads up - I am now adding "dog crate" to my Tractor Supply shopping list, right under "frisbee or six."

 

shetlander - yes, Lhasa's are tiny terrors, but you're right, they make up for it by being such devoted little thugs. Arlo took to Abbie, the fiest, right away, though - he likes girls, so maybe he'll just figure Lady is an addition to "his" harem. Abbie may be the problem, actually - I found out recently that the word "fiesty" was derived from fiest, not the other way around. I call Abbie my "terrier-ist."

 

julie - that would be awesome. :cool: I'd love the chance to see a BC work sheep. Lady tries her best, but due to lack of sheep she is reduced to herding Outback, one of the cattle dogs (who is sort of plump and fluffy ). This weekend will be the first time in two years that poor dog will have the chance to stretch out in front of the TV without Lady holding his back foot in her mouth. Definitely please let me know when you're coming down next! :cool:

[muddy bob]

It sounds as if you've recieved some very sound advice here. I just might add that one of my B.C.s that understood not to herd horses when I was working in the arena behaved differently on her first trail ride. She insisted on ringing round my mount until the horse behind us stepped on her. It was a quick cure and she was not injured seriously but it sure could have turned out differently. I know you'll be careful.

 

muddy bob

[Shetlander]

Originally posted by painted_ponies:

yes, Lhasa's are tiny terrors, but you're right, they make up for it by being such devoted little thugs.

How funny that you mentioned the thug nature of Lhasas! One of Chili's nicknames is Thugitty. I meant to ask this and forgot --What is a fiest, exactly? It's very weird for me not to have at least a vague idea about a breed, but I'm not at all familiar with fiests.

[juliepoudrier]

They're squirrel dogs. Here's a link to a webring that has other links on feists:

 

http://b.webring.com/hub?ring=squirreldog

 

All the ones I've seen (and it's not been a lot) look like some sort of rat terrier cross (rat terrierish, but not a lot of white like your typical terrier), which makes sense since I think rat terriers played a role in the development of the feist.

 

J.

[painted_ponies]

muddy bob - thanks for the tip. The first time I'll try her with just me and my old faithful 23 year old draft cross and see how she does. Bram's been known to completely ignore snarling Rottweilers between his front feet, so he'll be good for a test run. Lady's present mother's never taken her on a trail ride, since she mostly rides from her house and has to deal with a lot of paved roads and traffic.

 

shetlander and julie - wow, I never knew fiests were used for squirrel hunting. I bet they're great at it! Fiest is an old English word for a small mixed breed terrier, according to the Oxford Dictionary people, and that's pretty much how it's used in my part of the country.