andie71 Posted May 8, 2007 Report Share Posted May 8, 2007 I would really appreciate feedback from bc owners who have more than one bc in the household; from both owners who have working dogs and non-working dogs. (All input is encouraged - I don't want to discourage anyone from responding.) Would it be a strained relationship having 2 male non-working dogs in the same household. Cody is a sweetie and he's not particularly a dominant little fellow. I respect the opinion of Cody's breeder but I'm not sure if it's valid. Another breeder doesn't feel strongly either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samantha J Posted May 8, 2007 Report Share Posted May 8, 2007 hi Can i be cheeky and ask if anyone has thoughts on two female non working Bcs in a home? Sorry don't want to change your topic Andie71 but it's a question i wanted to ask and i don't want to put another post on with the same type of question. Just thought it was a similar thing and maybe it wouldn't matter if it was two males or two females. I will be interested to see what replies you get on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted May 8, 2007 Report Share Posted May 8, 2007 What reasoning did the breeder give? They are the one who knows their dogs the best. I've heard that 2 males often get along better than 2 females. But I have one of each, and they get along wonderfully. Kipp respects Missy and her space and has no problem with her being the boss. Missy is polite and friendly to Kipp, but is willing to tell "the kid" when he has overstepped his bounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSnappy Posted May 8, 2007 Report Share Posted May 8, 2007 Is Cody neutered? Sometimes intact males can be real buttheads with one another. Having said that, I will place males in homes with other males, and females in homes with males (or vice versa) but I am very reluctant to place females in homes with exisiting females. I know one of my members has like 6 females and a male, and the dogs cannot all be loose together because it turns into some SERIOUS bitch fighting (the boy stays out of it). Conversely, I have three males and a female, and most of my friends have male dogs, and we can go out in a whole pack without incident. I recently turned down someone who wanted to adopt a female pup as she has two female BCs already. I don't want to risk that bitch coming back into rescue once she matures because I have seen too many seriously nasty bitch fights. 9 times out of 10 when my males go out at it we are talking 98% noise, 2% teeth. When I had my two bitches go at it it was 143% teeth - a 12 second fight resulted in about 30 puncture wound per bitch. My long winded reply is meant to convey that my (poor) experience with multi-bitch packs affects my placement decisions. So perhaps your breeder has had bad experiences with multi-male packs. But personally speaking, I don't generally feel concern about placing males with males, myself. RDM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyrasmom Posted May 8, 2007 Report Share Posted May 8, 2007 I've never had a problem with multiple males, if anything, it's the two girls who are constantly "looking" at each other strangely and ensuring their position with us. The boys, by and large, tend to have a "life is good" type attitude and keep away from issues. I suppose it would be different if one of the males was very dominant and had issues but as a rule, I would vouch for a multi-male dog household versus a multi-female. Maria PS: which basically confirms that females really do the lion's (or is that lioness') share of everything in so many different species.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrid Posted May 8, 2007 Report Share Posted May 8, 2007 I have 2 neutered males that get along very well. There is a 2 year difference in their ages. They stay in a 10 x 30 run together during the day. I also have a older bitch who has to stay in a run alone because she is soooo hateful. I know all my other dogs will be singing "ding dong the bitch is dead" when she dies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andie71 Posted May 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2007 She really didn't elaborate on why she wouldn't place one of her males with Cody. Cody is not dominant at all. He is neutered. In fact, he can be quite submissive with female dogs. My friend's coon hound mix often humps him and I have to intervene. He just looks at me like, "Mom, what is she doing? Tell her to knock it off." Sometimes he'll respond by getting away from her and wrestling. I can go through the initial email and see if she provided an informative explanation. She knows what I'm interested in... I like cuddly and affectionate dogs (but I'm sure that it's hard to tell so early on). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenfitzh20 Posted May 8, 2007 Report Share Posted May 8, 2007 Ditto to RDM, very reluctant to place 2 females in the same household, 2 males, not so much. I personally live with 5 dogs, 3 females and 2 males. The 2 males do not like each other but do not fight. The 2 eldest females (6 & 7 yrs old, the 7 yr old is the alpha) don't like each other and will fight in an excited situation (someone knocking at the door etc) but on general do OK. We just never leave them alone together. The alpha and my youngest female get along beautifully, mainly because the youngest is very submissive to her "queen" and wouldn't DREAM of challenging her over anything. Its all about temperament, if they blend well and they are of the same sex, I see no problem with it. Like someone else said though, the breeder knows these dogs. I'd listen. And yes, intact will make a difference. We brought a new 5 yr old rescue over for socializing (he has ehrlichiosis and can't be neutered just yet) and I thought my male was going to have a heart attack. He's not fond of other males anyway but one with BALLS???? I think not! Someone once said to me "males fight for points, females fight for keeps". Very true in my experience but then I'm not around intact males that much. Jennifer www.mokanbcrescue.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andie71 Posted May 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2007 I went through my emails and the only statement made was that she wouldn't place another male in a companion household that has another male. Cody has a bit of work to do with getting comfortable with children. I want to optimize the chances that my next bc will be good with children and adults as well. Cody is good with adults - men and women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted May 8, 2007 Report Share Posted May 8, 2007 Based upon our experiences it comes down to individual temperaments and mix of the temperaments of the pack not gender. Look at our signature and you'll see a large number of females most are intact. We've had grumping over situations but no long standing wars. We've had several intact males in our pack without wars. However, I have seen individuals in other packs that are not to be trusted together alone. In these packs there is always a tension between the two individuals that can influence the entire pack. The two are always eying one another and possibly antagonizing one another until one of them snaps. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andie71 Posted May 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2007 Based upon our experiences it comes down to individual temperaments and mix of the temperaments of the pack not gender. Look at our signature and you'll see a large number of females most are intact. We've had grumping over situations but no long standing wars. We've had several intact males in our pack without wars. However, I have seen individuals in other packs that are not to be trusted together alone. Mark Okay, so here's a question... would a submissive male like Cody do better with a female or male? Cody is quite attached to me. I am the only human in the family that he lives with. Which is a natural segue to.... If there are any single, bc lovin' guys out there, let me know! j/k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samantha J Posted May 8, 2007 Report Share Posted May 8, 2007 Thankyou all for your comments reguarding two females, i appreciated all your views on this. I am looking a little way ahead yet as neither myself or Holly is ready for another one yet but i definately would like another BC. I would prefer a female however i would consider a male if it would suit Holly better so i will need to consider it quite carefully then and look at temperaments of both Holly and the new BC. Thanks Andy for letting me hijack your topic a wee bit. It seems it may be easier for you with two males than my preference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie_Girl Posted May 8, 2007 Report Share Posted May 8, 2007 I have 3 spayed female dogs, 3 intact male dogs, 3 intact male kids, two of which are teens, 2 female intact kids, 3 grown women, 2 of which are intact, 1 grown man, intact, and all I can tell you is, I WOULD GLADLY TAKE TWICE THE DOGS OVER THE HUMANS! He touched my stuff! She changed the channel! It's my turn on the comp! She's lying! He hit me! The dogs? Oh, that's your chew toy? Okay. Sure, I'll wait my turn for that yummy treat! I know you'll get to my butt to get scratched, take your time! Hey, somethings in the backyard! Let's all go check it out! Yeah, the dogs are a cake walk! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth G Posted May 9, 2007 Report Share Posted May 9, 2007 Lmao. You're a riot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moss Posted May 9, 2007 Report Share Posted May 9, 2007 I wouldn't have a major problem with two males in a household. I have two males that live indoors together quite happily - one is neutered and the other is entire. I also have a bitch (GSD not BC) who rules the roost. My OH has two of my BCs at his place. All his dogs live outside in kennels. He has 5 entire males and 3 unspayed bitches. The bitches can and will fight if you don't watch them, and they mean business! The dogs may scuffle and act all tough and manly, but it is all noise and no damage. I have heard two bitches that don't get on will hate each other forever, and may even fight to the death. The upshot is, I would have no problem with two non working males but would never suggest someone get two non work bitches. I am not suggesting that there will ALWAYS be problems (as there certainly aren't) but I think the issue is that if you DO have a problem with bitches then it is almost impossible to have those bitches live together in harmony. Just my experiences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted May 9, 2007 Report Share Posted May 9, 2007 andie71, Based upon our experiences it comes down to individual temperaments ....... not gender. The only way to find out if the two individuals will "mix" well is to have them meet and watch them interact. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BustopherJones Posted May 9, 2007 Report Share Posted May 9, 2007 Over the last 40 years, DW and I have almost always had 2 dogs in the house, and (per DW's preference) they have always been females. We have never had a problem with then getting along. With that said, any new dog coming into our family always paired up with an older female (usually replaicing the oldest dog, who had gone on to Rainbow Bridge); we have never had 2 dogs of the same age. The older dog's dominance was always pre-established, and the older dog always seemed to mentor the younger dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted May 9, 2007 Report Share Posted May 9, 2007 However, I have seen individuals in other packs that are not to be trusted together alone. In these packs there is always a tension between the two individuals that can influence the entire pack. The two are always eying one another and possibly antagonizing one another until one of them snaps. Mark That would be Willow and Jill (both spayed BTW). It hasn't gotten to the all-out fight-to-the-death level yet, but that's largely because *I* keep a close eye on them and do not leave them alone together when I am not around. Twist at 5 is now getting into the mix some, perhaps thinking she can take them both or something (as they are both older--Willow will be 10 and Jill 11 this summer). It's not fun having to deal with bitches that want to take one another out, are constantly eying one another and posturing, and taking cheap shots when they can. Most of my males (all except the pup) are neutered and I've never had any real problems with them going at each other or any of the females. So my experience would supprt the idea that caution is needed when placing females with other females, but not necessarily for males. ETA: Regarding Bustopher's comments, in my case the two females having problems were both dominant (one in my household and one in another--the second was added to my pack and the clashing began). That said, Twist was raised with Willow and until the past year or so was content to leave it be (I always allowed Willow to assert herself over Twist when Twist was a pup). Now she seems more inclined to get into a snarling match, or worse, with either Willow or Jill, so over time it seems that the dynamics can change as well. All that said, I still prefer females, even though they can require A LOT more management.... J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pippin's person Posted May 9, 2007 Report Share Posted May 9, 2007 We have four males (three neutered, one still too young, but headed for the block once those growth plates have closed) and two spayed females. In our pack, everyone but the two "teen-age" boyz gets along very well. Our two females don't interact much, but one of them is on the socially disabled side and pretty much stays glued to her person or plays in a way that other dogs don't understand. The other female, Pippin, has gotten pretty snarky as she's gotten more mature and I would weigh adding another female to the mix very carefully precisely because of the number of times I've heard about bitch wars (not that I'm looking to add any anytime soon). The two boyz who posture at each other seem to be working out their places in the pack order and since they aren't fully mature and seem to be very close in rank, there's quite a bit of grumbling between them--but there's never been any serious altercation (a couple that looked serious but in the end weren't). They also play together and are fine being left loose around each other. If I were doing it again, I wouldn't add a same-sex teen-ager to the pack when there is another teen-ager around, so i think that you have to factor age, gender and esp. temperament into the decision. When we fostered, the only pack trouble we really had was with a recently neutered male who nobody in our pack liked at all (and who tried to eat our cats--so we didn't like him all that much either--but the person who adopted him adores him and spoils him rotten). Othe than him, it didn't seem to really matter if the foster was male or female--each of our dogs reacted to them pretty predictably based on their own temperaments. If I were looking for a second dog and had a female, I'd absolutely get a male--not that there are any guarantees, but you can try and tip the odds in your favor. I've heard far more stories and witnessed problems between multiple females (though of course there are plenty of cases, like Bustopher's, where it works fine--so you just can't know for sure until you try it out for a couple of weeks or longer) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samantha J Posted May 10, 2007 Report Share Posted May 10, 2007 Thankyou again to all for advice on two BC females. I am surprised really that so many of you think they could fight. That's a bit scary, i really didn't think it would matter if it was males or females. I shall have to consider it a lot more now as i wouldn't want that. I do realise though that any mix could have problems and it does to some degree go on temperaments of the dogs. It appears then that the females are not as laid back in attitude as the males then. Males must be more sedate. I am new to Bc's and never had a male dog at all so i am thankful i had the feedback on this. Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb Scott Posted May 10, 2007 Report Share Posted May 10, 2007 I would really appreciate feedback from bc owners who have more than one bc in the household; from both owners who have working dogs and non-working dogs. (All input is encouraged - I don't want to discourage anyone from responding.) Would it be a strained relationship having 2 male non-working dogs in the same household. Cody is a sweetie and he's not particularly a dominant little fellow. I respect the opinion of Cody's breeder but I'm not sure if it's valid. Another breeder doesn't feel strongly either way. We have 2 intact males and have no problems!!! Barb s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andie71 Posted May 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2007 Well, since I haven't heard from the breeder for several days I think I'm going to go with a male pup. Now I just have to find one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexie Posted May 11, 2007 Report Share Posted May 11, 2007 Maybe you should get one of MrSnappy's despite the long distance? RDM is going so crazy with all those pups and they are so CUTE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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