Need information regarding raw or home made dog food

[starbuck]

Now that Natural Balance has issued a recall of one of their formulas (fortunately not the one my dogs eat) my faith in the pet food industry in GONE! What are the best books or websites regarding raw or home cooked diets? If it's not way too expensive I am thinking about making the switch. I'll probably talk to our vet about this but I need to learn more first so I can ask the right questions.

[smileyzookie]

If you do a search on the board, there have been a ton of discussion about raw. Here are links to the diet I follow. "Prey Model Diet". Good luck. Lemme know if you have questions.

 

Some vets are for it, some against and some are ok with whatever as long as the dog is healthy. My vet will have a cow when she finds out I feed raw. Science Diet is all she thinks they should have, but I wont feed it especially when its been recalled!

 

This is a yahoo group and its great.

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

 

http://www.rawlearning.com/

 

http://www.rawfeddogs.net/

[sweetpete]

Now that Natural Balance has issued a recall of one of their formulas (fortunately not the one my dogs eat) my faith in the pet food industry in GONE! What are the best books or websites regarding raw or home cooked diets? If it's not way too expensive I am thinking about making the switch. I'll probably talk to our vet about this but I need to learn more first so I can ask the right questions.

 

 

Check out DR PITCAIRN do a google search. It;s not easy . he has something called a "Halthy Powder'. You add this ( all ingredients bought at your health food store) to the food you give your dog to be sure it is gettinga nutrionally balanced meal. Good luck to youl

[J-III]

I dont mean to get off topic too much, but I checked it out and only two products from science diet have been recalled. This link is to a letter from the manufacturer stating the two products and that the remainder of their products have not been affected by either of the two recalls and have been tested for the chemicals related to the recalls.

 

http://www.hillspet.com/Menu_Foods/Consume...4162007_en.html

 

Not that I have anything against feeding raw and am not trying to persuade you against it, just some outside information.

[Root Beer]

"Raw Dog Food" by Carina Beth MacDonald is a fantastic book for getting started with raw.

 

http://www.raw-dogs.com/

 

As you research this, you are going to find that there are a lot of different viewpoints where raw feeding is concerned: prey model vs. barf model, chicken necks and backs vs. chicken quarters, veggies vs. no veggies, mega supplements vs. as needed supplements vs. no supplements.

 

What I found best was to start simple. I started with ground meat and veggies and gradually added in necks and then tried different things like backs, quarters, different meats, organs, eggs, certain supplements, etc. I've found the combo that works best for my dog. Just as one diet doesn't fit all for humans, different dogs do well with different raw diets.

[Beth G]

Is raw ground turkey good?

[smileyzookie]

Ground food isnt good IMO because it has no working on the teeth like bones. Plus the acids in the dogs stomach arent going yet because they can just wolf down the ground stuff and it basically just sits there. Chewing on bones, ect gets tummy acids going. Why would you want to feed ground anyway? Dogs can easily digest chicken bones and meat.

 

Everyone knows I disagree with the whole veggie issue, I wont go into that again. lol.

[Beth G]

We have some frozen ground turkey. Just wondering if it would be ok to feed them or if it would harm them. I'm still learning what is safe and what isn't.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

Ground turkey is fine. It's not sufficient as a complete diet but it can help with the transition. Ground turkey is very lean so I don't use it much.

 

There's lots of recipes on the internet for using ground meat to get you started. From there you'll probably find yourself getting more confident in using different meats, and being able to judge what works for your dog. Some people drift back to using a little kibble and supplementing with homecooked, some go all the way to prey model (nothing but critters ), most of us find a comfort zone somewhere in the middle.

 

The way I see it, the more we personally take control of what we feed our pets, the less chance there is that any of this tainted food will have an impact on us. No matter what you do, that's a good thing.

[SarahAnn]

The canned "in gravy" food we had been using was the first to be recalled; my second choice quickly hit the recall list. In a panic I immediately switched to human quality home cooked food and will probably stick with it. Our dogs are doing well, and have had NO diarrhea -- surprising since they all three have tender tummies. I buy meat on sale and cook once weekly; one large storage container goes into the frig, the rest into the freezer. The "recipe" I'm using yields enough for about ten days for 2 large Labs and a small BC.

[smileyzookie]

Some people drift back to using a little kibble and supplementing with homecooked, some go all the way to prey model (nothing but critters ), most of us find a comfort zone somewhere in the middle.

 

The way I see it, the more we personally take control of what we feed our pets, the less chance there is that any of this tainted food will have an impact on us. No matter what you do, that's a good thing.

 

The prey model is what I feed -- And I also agree with you Rebecca, this way we KNOW what our babies are getting.

[Beth G]

Oh yeah. It sets my mind at ease to feed them the raw.

[haleigh]

Hey Donna, see you beat me at this again, you newbie, you:P:P!

 

Anyways, I won't just spend this post poking fun at you, donna. We have an issue! A CRISIS!

 

I have a squidoo page on raw that you may find helpful

 

Clicky Here!!!!!

 

I use Raw Learning as a bible for raw. It's everything. Everything about raw is on that site.

 

One site not mentioned was Raw Dog Ranch.

 

Raw Dog Ranch

[smileyzookie]

Hey Donna, see you beat me at this again, you newbie, you:P:P!

 

LOL That my friend is because I have no life... lol.

 

Very nice page you got there. I think you should add to the FAQ's the one I get asked all the time.

 

Cashier: ew you're buying pork kidneys

Me: yes they're for my dog

Cashier: you cook it first right?

Me: No

Cashier: *stunned ackward silence*

Me:

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

Actually lately I've been finding people's reaction to finding out that I feed my dogs "people" food is more along the lines of, "Yeah, I'd like to try that too," or, "You're smart."

 

But now they are saying pork may be contaminated. Ben's allergic to chicken so pork is a staple of his diet.

[Maralynn]

Cashier: ew you're buying pork kidneys

Me: yes they're for my dog

Cashier: you cook it first right?

Me: No

Cashier: *stunned ackward silence*

Me:

 

I always wonder what the cashiers think when I'm buying the weird pieces of meat. But hey, they sell them for human consumption, so someone else must be buying them, too!

 

It is funny the thing you start to get excited over when you feed raw. Today it was the beef heart I found at the store marked down to .50/#, and the goose eggs we got from a neighbor -variety!

 

Rebecca, can Ben eat turkey? I've avoided feeding Missy chicken for a while because of a suspected allergy, But I can usually find whole turkeys of the less favorable turkey parts for around .75/# at both Wal-mart and our local grocery store. One these days I'm going to make a trip to a turkey farm about 1 hr away. They have ground whole turkey for .95/# and turkey necks for .65/#.

[SoloRiver]

The canned "in gravy" food we had been using was the first to be recalled; my second choice quickly hit the recall list. In a panic I immediately switched to human quality home cooked food and will probably stick with it. Our dogs are doing well, and have had NO diarrhea -- surprising since they all three have tender tummies. I buy meat on sale and cook once weekly; one large storage container goes into the frig, the rest into the freezer. The "recipe" I'm using yields enough for about ten days for 2 large Labs and a small BC.

 

I hope you're adding a calcium source of some kind; many of the recipes that have been distributed on the Internet since the recalls began are not intended for long term feeding and have no added calcium.

 

I posted this in another thread but here is a recipe that was designed specifically for dogs by veterinary nutritionists:

 

http://www.sunherald.com/160/story/31854.html

 

I am not one of those people who thinks grains are evil, so I'm going to be using this and other nutritionist-approved recipes for my dogs, in addition to some raw and some kibble. After running numbers through spreadsheets on a few occasions I am not personally comfortable going by the "whatever" philosophy of home feeding, because I saw firsthand how easy it is to be way way way off the mark even though you think you're covering all the bases with variety. It's not as easy to reconstruct a whole prey animal (which would, indeed, be complete and balanced for a dog) from random animal body parts as a lot of people think.

 

Evangelical raw feeding talk will be ignored, so don't bother yelling at me about it. I don't think there's anything wrong with feeding dogs raw food, I do it myself. I do think that people need to take a little bit of care when they do it. A lot of people do, but a hell of a lot of people don't.

[haleigh]

Cashier: ew you're buying pork kidneys

Me: yes they're for my dog

Cashier: you cook it first right?

Me: No

Cashier: *stunned ackward silence*

Me: rolleyes.gif

 

 

This is me:

 

Cashier:Do you actually eat that?

Me:Yeah, stupid. I love the smell of liver and hearts in the morning

Cashier: Are you serious?

ME: Are you?

Cashier: Well, good luck. Hope you don't get sick. You braver then I am.

[haleigh]

I am not one of those people who thinks grains are evil, so I'm going to be using this and other nutritionist-approved recipes for my dogs, in addition to some raw and some kibble. After running numbers through spreadsheets on a few occasions I am not personally comfortable going by the "whatever" philosophy of home feeding, because I saw firsthand how easy it is to be way way way off the mark even though you think you're covering all the bases with variety. It's not as easy to reconstruct a whole prey animal (which would, indeed, be complete and balanced for a dog) from random animal body parts as a lot of people think.

 

 

What about the people that CAN actually reconstruct an animal, and still have a healthy dog? What about the people that actually take time to make sure their dog is getting the most complete diet ever?

 

IMO, dogs don't need complete, balanced diet ever. Raw feeders are concerned (well I hope they are) about dogs getting as close as they can to wolves in the wild , regarding food. In the wild, wolves NEVER have a "balanced diet". One day they feast on the head of an elk, and the next day, if a scavenger hasn't eaten it, they might feast on the internal organs like kidney and liver. Then maybe some raw meaty bones, like the spine. So really, it's never balanced. Then they may fast a week, or a few days, depending on food supplies.

[Maralynn]

What about the people that CAN actually reconstruct an animal, and still have a healthy dog? What about the people that actually take time to make sure their dog is getting the most complete diet ever?

 

IMO, dogs don't need complete, balanced diet ever. Raw feeders are concerned (well I hope they are) about dogs getting as close as they can to wolves in the wild , regarding food. In the wild, wolves NEVER have a "balanced diet". One day they feast on the head of an elk, and the next day, if a scavenger hasn't eaten it, they might feast on the internal organs like kidney and liver. Then maybe some raw meaty bones, like the spine. So really, it's never balanced. Then they may fast a week, or a few days, depending on food supplies.

 

But wolves diets contain many things that don't pop up to often in raw diets, such as brains, eyeballs and hide. The animals a wolf eats are rasied differently than most of the meat you buy at the grocery store as well. And animals eating what they were designed to eat can still suffer from deficiencies. My sheep eat grass and hay - their natural diet. They are in a pasture that has a wide variety of grasses, etc for then to eat. But I still have to supplement then with selenium and vit e. If I don't, I start losing lambs to white muscle disease.

 

I do feed raw, but sometimes hesitate to reccomend it to people. Simply because it's alot more than just getting some hamburger or chicken leg quarters and feeding them to your dog. I'd rather have someone switch over to a natural kibble or a balanced homemade recipe like the one posted. Another good, but slighty more complicated, fomula to follow is the Volhard diet (you can google it). It does contian some grain, but it is balanced and has a proven track record.Then switch over to raw after they did their research on the subject. I believe there is enough information out there for the average person to educate themself on the general nutrition requiremnts of dogs, and formulate a good raw diet, but you need to take time to read the information.

[Kitch]

The way I see it, the more we personally take control of what we feed our pets, the less chance there is that any of this tainted food will have an impact on us. No matter what you do, that's a good thing.

 

I agree - I can't tell you what a relief it was not to have to worry about the whole pet food problem.

 

I feed (more or less) the prey model diet. The "more or less" part means that while I don't think dogs need veggies to be healthy, I still occasionally give Dublin broccoli or carrots - simply because he loves them. He's a big fan of pumpkin too. So he does get some veggies throughout the week, usually when I make them for myself and as a treat, not part of his required meal. When I first started feeding raw, I fed veggies as part of the meal, but have since discontinued that.

 

I have a funny raw story. I work with a farmer who finds it fascinating that I feed raw - and keeps me well supplied with organic, grassfed beef parts. (I also think he likes having someone to talk to who doesn't turn all squeamish when he talks about slaughtering one of his cows). Anyway, he recently lost a calf to a breach birth - the animal was fine, just couldn't handle the trauma of the birth. He said he normally would throw the carcass on the compost heap, but wanted to know if I was interested in it - of course I jumped at it. He normally gives me the beef in really rough cut, 20-50 pound sections and I was expecting something similar. Nope - I got the entire (whole) calf - all 88 pounds of it. I was game though and struggled to bring the calf out into the yard (keep in mind that I live in the city and have a very small back yard that is visible to my neighbors. If I lived in the country, this would be no big deal - unfortunately I couldn't lift the calf high enough to get it in my car and to my dad's to butcher it there. I'm also not set up with the proper tools to butcher an animal so I had to get creative).

 

Dublin was *very* interested and spent a lot of time checking it out and dragging it this way and that before he gave up: "It's not open, Boss, I dunno what to do"

 

So I spent the next few hours butchering the calf in my backyard where Dublin remained interested but confused. He sat off to the side and watched me intently - probably wondering why I had decided to join in on his meals, but he was patiently waiting for me to get my "fill". My current foster dog just kept dropping his ball into the carcass at the most inopportune moments. Talk about a fetching addict!

 

One can only imagine what my neighbors think of me now. A few stopped and looked but didn't say anything - one of which I knew couldn't see the head of the calf, so who knows what he thought I was doing. I was amazed I got through the process without a visit from the police.

[HighDesertSpice]

I posted this in another thread but here is a recipe that was designed specifically for dogs by veterinary nutritionists:

 

http://www.sunherald.com/160/story/31854.html

 

I am not one of those people who thinks grains are evil, so I'm going to be using this and other nutritionist-approved recipes for my dogs, in addition to some raw and some kibble. After running numbers through spreadsheets on a few occasions I am not personally comfortable going by the "whatever" philosophy of home feeding, because I saw firsthand how easy it is to be way way way off the mark even though you think you're covering all the bases with variety. It's not as easy to reconstruct a whole prey animal (which would, indeed, be complete and balanced for a dog) from random animal body parts as a lot of people think.

 

Evangelical raw feeding talk will be ignored, so don't bother yelling at me about it. I don't think there's anything wrong with feeding dogs raw food, I do it myself. I do think that people need to take a little bit of care when they do it. A lot of people do, but a hell of a lot of people don't.

 

As someone most of this thread would consider a novice in the BC world, i agree with this recipe. I have been feeding my BC mix something very similar. She lost weight initially but has always licked the entire bowl fastidiously clean (along with Boonie's) whereas with high end kibbles, she was more or less disinterested. This is what my dogs get: cooked wild rice, tuna with or without oil, if sans oil, then I have come to realize they need a tad of fat, so I've added a bit of canola oil (or something all veggie). In the evening, or when they need to trim down, they get cooked green beans or peas instead of or in addition to the rice. Generous with the green beans, and sparing with the peas. Or if I'm out, they'll get corn like the peas. They both love it, have healthy glossy coats & nails. The teeth need some work though, so I haven't given up the dogbones yet.

 

My small input.

 

Cheers, Melanie

[HighDesertSpice]

What about the people that CAN actually reconstruct an animal, and still have a healthy dog? What about the people that actually take time to make sure their dog is getting the most complete diet ever?

 

IMO, dogs don't need complete, balanced diet ever. Raw feeders are concerned (well I hope they are) about dogs getting as close as they can to wolves in the wild , regarding food. In the wild, wolves NEVER have a "balanced diet". One day they feast on the head of an elk, and the next day, if a scavenger hasn't eaten it, they might feast on the internal organs like kidney and liver. Then maybe some raw meaty bones, like the spine. So really, it's never balanced. Then they may fast a week, or a few days, depending on food supplies.

 

This is interesting in that it appears that most people on this forum assume that dogs transitioned from wolves. Why do they accept this assumption? When it is possible that wolves are instead dogs that escaped into the wild and therefore developed into the scrappy, scavanger - hunters that they are? In which case, a diet that includes a variety of foods they can digest and benefit from may be absolutely perfect for the average, much bred dog or even the high performance stock / agility dog. Just some food for thought.

 

Not to pick on this poster, but just to post the question. Given that this is a food discussion, I thought a tad more controversy wouldn't hurt

 

Cheers, Melanie