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leanne

Still waiting for my puppy.....

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Well it's just over a week until the litter are due and then I have to wait another 8 weeks until I can take one home......it's torture! I am getting everything ready and have a HUGE puppy crate and nowhere to fit it in my house :rolleyes:

 

Just thought I'd share some pictures of the pup to be's mum from when we went to meet her at Easter (Im jealous that I don't have my own BC pics to share!!)

 

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This picture was taken when my boyfriend was testing out the scooter and the alaskan malamutes were pulling him - the BC's got very excited and started haring around!

 

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The last picture takes a while to opne - but it does eventually - looks like I've just taken a picture of a gate for ages!

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Hey, look at it this way...for right now the pup will be little and you will still have some time to tear out a wall or two for the big crate! :rolleyes:

Best of luck with your pup!

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PlasM - what do you mean lines - pedigree?

 

The puppies could be any colour as the mum is tri and the dad is red merle! So there should be lots of surprises. I always thought of BCs as the traditional black and white but now I've seen all the other colours I love them all! My other half especially likes blue merles.

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Yeah I meant are they pedigree, or farm dogs? :D

 

Either way they're gorgeous and I wouldn't be able to contain myself for 8 weeks! :rolleyes:

 

I've got a soft spot for the blue merles too. :D

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They're pedigree not farm dogs. We met the breeder through Alaskan Malamutes as we are very interested in one of those and they also have BC's . It seems that in the UK quite a few people have collies and maalamutes together which is great as they're my two favourites!

 

I am finding it VERY hard to contain myself and am counting down the days!

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So come on, what lines are they? :rolleyes: As in what is the breeder's affix and stuff? And whereabouts in the UK are they? :D They're gorgeous! Malamutes are quite cool looking, are you going to get one of them from them eventually too?

 

Is the mum a red tri? Or just a normal black and tan tri? The photos make her look like a red tri, just wondering.

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As in what is the breeder's affix and stuff? And whereabouts in the UK are they? :D They're gorgeous! Malamutes are quite cool looking, are you going to get one of them from them eventually too?

 

We love Malamutes and are hoping to get one from them in the next few years! The mum, Lucca is from Casiat who are in Norfolk in the UK - Casiat- lots of cute puppy pictures in the gallery here! I think that Lucca is a black tri not a red. The sire is a detania dog from Suffolk Detania and is the mad looking one called Detania Red Marbell. Apparently he loves going in the water and it's made his coat go really curly! :rolleyes: That's not meant to be a very good picture of him but my other half loves it!

 

Pups now due a week tomorrow!!!!

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Leanne,

 

I think you need to look for another breeder. Did you even look at the Detania web site?

 

Shes breeding mutts - Border Collies to Poodles and then to Shih Tuzs! Who knows if the Sire of your puppies coat is really curly on its own or because he has Poodle in him!

 

Please, PLEASE, PLEASE think this over again. There are many, MANY, MANY good breeders out there who will sell you a puppy from known breeding who only breed pure bred puppies and only breed with other breeders who only breed pure bred puppies!

 

If you buy a puppy from there, your supporting . . . . . . . . I don't even know what to call it but its NOT good or okay!

 

Look at the picture on the bottom of Detania's "Border Collie" page. I counted 16 dogs in that small space but I am guessing there is at least 17 (I think I can see a butt). That is NO short of house hold to bred dogs! You have no idea who gets with who or what!

 

OMG I am just going to hit my head against the wall! This is horrible!!!!

 

Katelynn, who is just worried about you getting a good puppy from a good breeder!

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I have to agree with Katelynn - looking at that site, there is NO WAY I would buy a pup from them.

 

Their collies aren't working bred (ISDS registered) anyway - are you wanting to work your dog on stock??

 

And then the deliberate cross-breeding that going on is disgusting - and pointless! Don't we have enough dogs in rescue centres already in this country?!! Grrr!

 

Please re-think getting your pup from this source.

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I, personally, don't agree with cross-breeding. There are so many BCs, Poodles, Shih Tzus, and mixes of each of these in the shelters. I didn't have a problem with this breeder until I saw that they are purposely crossing these breeds. I refuse to ever buy a puppy from someone that does that, because you never know if you're truly getting a purebred or a good sound healthy dog. I would recommend looking for another breeder, but that's your decision. I have made the mistake of taking a puppy that came from a breeder like that. Unfortunately, I didn't know as much about this lady then that I do now. I wish I had, because it would have saved a lot of heartache.

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BC/Shih Tzu!?! You have to be joking!

Ug, I saw the pictures - looks like the common mutt you find in the pound.

And the poodle mix! :rolleyes: Like the world needs more of those....

 

Please re-think this...please.

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Oh Leanne, I know this must be so hard to hear especially as you have your heart set on a pup sired by a dog from this breeder. But please, please think again. No-one who really cared would contemplate allowing any dog from that kennel anywhere near one of their own. I am no expert at all, and this sounds harsh, but there were some things on that Detania website that just made me feel queasy. Without even getting into debates about breeding for colour and looks rather than working ability and temperament, those deliberate cross matings that they call 'Gremlins' is so horribly irresponsiblle. I LOVE my Mutt-dog but she was rescued. There are so many many mixed breed dogs in rescue who are desparate for good homes without creating more. And there are many many border collies and BC crosses in shelters too through no fault of their own. It sounds harsh, but by buying from her you will be supporting the kind of reckless breeding that leads to too many dogs being discarded.

 

If it helps at all, someone on here recently had the same predicament. He had chosen his pup and posted the pics on here. He was new to Border Collies and wanted to learn more. He listened to what poeple said and pulled out at the last minute. He now has a lovely young dog ( and another just arrived) from a reputable breeder. These people look like charlatans to me. And they put the pups outside at 3-4 weeks old! I know this is common practice on farms but doesn't sound good to me. Neither does having all those dogs to feed and look after.How on eath can they afford the fod bills, medical treatment and individual attention these dogs require? It's insane. You can do much better than this , I'm sure. Very best of luck and keep us posted.

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I would also steer clear of this breeder. No reputable breeder would breed these mixes. It's also alarming how many dogs they have at once.

You can find plenty of other good breeders and find the dog you've been hoping for.

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Quoted directly from the site...

 

"The puppies are born in our house and go outside at an age of 3-4 weeks..."

 

Uhm, 'nuff said. 3-4 weeks? Puppies, OUTSIDE, at 3-4 weeks? Also, take a good look at that puppy pen....most of the pups are filthy, and wet looking. Typically not a good sign. Neither is cramming 16 puppies together like that.

 

Another quote that bathers me:

 

"Our stud dogs are DNA tested for CEA, and we will only breed from dogs that are DNA tested normal or are DNA normal by parentage."

 

I don't think "DNA normal by parentage" counts...

 

 

And just try and COUNT all her dogs. Oi vey...

 

 

Find another breeder, more devoted to the breed they're producing as opposed to what color and what looks cute crossed with it. You want a puppy from a breeder who is dedicated to IMPROVING the breed, not diluting it.

 

One last parting quote:

 

"Sometimes we breed from our Gremlins, mostly in black, black and white, brown or brown and white..."

 

Do I even have to touch that one? I mean, really... Disregarding that the word "sometimes" implies "whenever-we-feel-like-it"...not a word is said about the temperment, soundness, or REASON behond breeding these so-called "gremlins."

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Oh, Leanne . . . I really don't know what to say except I'm sorry that you have been given this news after you had your heart set on this litter. But please do take Katelynn's advice to heart. The litter has not been born yet, you have no obligation yet, I would get out. This is not a breeder that deserves your support, and you can find a wonderful puppy elsewhere.

 

Btw, SA, I do believe "DNA Normal by Parentage" is acceptable. If you breed a dog that is DNA normal to another normal dog, you'll get all normal puppies.

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Borderlicious, thats a relief to know...but, still...The thing that confuses me, is she mentions that the stud dogs are tested...doesn't say anything specifically related to the dams. Either way, there is something warped about her breeding practices.

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The dam looks like a blue tri to me.

 

I agree with the above posters though. Even if it is just the sire that came from Detania. I would not support the owners of that stud by purchasing one of his pups no matter which kennel it came from. Breeding a BC to a poodle or shih tzu is completely irresponsible-especially done on purpose.

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Oh dear oh dear.................

 

I'm so sorry you been 'spoken' too in this way Leanne.

 

 

 

 

Let me introduce myself to you all.

 

I am Carol Atherton of Casiat Border Collies.

 

I own Lucca 'Casiat Truly Madly Deeply' the blue tri bitch in Leanne's pictures above, along with 3 other BC's who are Lucca's litter sister Bebe, their mother Dayna and a great uncle - Dillan.

 

I have been owned by BC's for nearly 20 years and have in my time trained/competed in obedience, agility, working trials, flyball and some very basic sheep work. My passion is Clicker training and I have 'clicked' all my rpresent dogs!!

 

We have had very few litters - 3 BC litters in those 20 years in fact!! All the pups have gone to dogsport or active experienced homes. Our pups are born in the kitchen and remain there until they leave at 8 weeks old except for daily trips out to the garden from 3 weeks and for toilet training. They experience household noises and sights and are introduced to many vistors and children too, along with our cats and older dogs when they are around 4/5 weeks old. All my dogs are KC & ISDS registered, PRA tested yearly, CEA DNA tested. The puppies are BEAR hearing tested and eye tested at 6-7 weeks old too.

 

 

 

I am somewhat preturbed by some of the above comments - I will not answer or make further comment on your posts about Angela Gillespie of Detania, that is for her to take up with you - but what I will say is that I am not happy that my dogs have been spoken about in this way and insinuations been made about the parentage and health of my impending pups.

 

On other dog forums of which I am a member, it is polite to privately message/email people with any comments or worries you may have over their dogs and not start a general bun fight in this way. This way your comments can be heard and acted upon if neccessary and there is no public degredation of the people invovled which is especially pertinent as many of you do not know the people involved.

 

Therefore if you wish to discuss your concerns with me, please feel free to email/PM me.

 

I'm very sad this has happened here, Leanne is very upset too by your comments.

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Oh dear oh dear.................

 

I'm so sorry you been 'spoken' too in this way Leanne.

 

I'm very sad this has happened here, Leanne is very upset too by your comments.

 

First of all, everybody on these boards (including me) are responsible and caring BC owners who only wish to give the best possible adivice to benefit Border Collies as well as the people who love and care for them.

 

You say we have spoken harshly to Leanne but you seem to be forgetting that she has already been misled by the Detania proprieter. The "curly coated Border Collie" would not simply go curly-coated from going in the water. If this was true, every dog in the world would have a curly coat from being exposed to water, rain, puddles etc. :rolleyes: It obviously has some poodle in it's lineage somewhere, which is not surprising due to the large variety of intact dogs this breeder possesses. Not to mention PURPOSEFULLY breeding mutts and selling them off when thousands die in shelters every year.

 

I think this is a disgusting practice and as this is a public message board we have every right to voice our concerns when someone asks for our opinions.

 

On this board, the members are a group of people who believe in breeding BC's for what they were originally meant to do - herding. Neither you nor the other breeder seem to be doing so. You are a newcomer to this board and have only joined to try to persuade Leanne that it is ok to go ahead and waste her money on one of your Border Collies and save face. Obviously you have not read This as you should have before posting in this forum.

 

Everybody is merely looking out for Leanne and dogs in general, and trying to correct the unreliable information she was provided with. If you can't see this why are you breeding dogs in the first place?

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On this board, the members are a group of people who believe in breeding BC's for what they were originally meant to do - herding. Neither you nor the other breeder seem to be doing so. You are a newcomer to this board and have only joined to try to persuade Leanne that it is ok to go ahead and waste her money on one of your Border Collies and save face. Obviously you have not read This as you should have before posting in this forum.

 

I have to disagree with you there..............I joined this board to see why she was so very upset by your comments and to see why you were making the comments you have made.

 

Leanne is herself a very intelligent person and I'm sure she can make her own mind up about where she buys a pup from, she is certainly under no obligation to buy one from me.

 

Indeed I have read the page that you refered to in that link. I have the utmost respect for people who work their BC's on sheep, it's something I love to watch and have had a go at in the past. I also share that respect for anyone out there who has the same passion for the breed as I do in whatever 'dogsport' they choose.

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Guest pax

leanne, here is another thread happening on the boards..you might find it interesting to read.

 

 

http://www.bordercollie.org/boards/index.p...c=10684&hl=

 

 

I hope you find a happy, healthy puppy from WORKING sheep dog lines, if you are hoping to have a dog that works sheep or, alternatively, a rescue who really needs help, if you are hoping to find a partner to do other dog sports.

 

With respect,

 

 

Celia

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It obviously has some poodle in it's lineage somewhere, which is not surprising due to the large variety of intact dogs this breeder possesses. Not to mention PURPOSEFULLY breeding mutts and selling them off when thousands die in shelters every year.

 

I've stayed out of this, but this just really hit my heart. I cant agree with this comment enough!! Millions of mixed dogs die in shelters every year and there are a ton in rescue. Why on earth would you want to intentionally populate the world with (sorry to say) mutts?

 

Oh leanne. Im so so sorry this is happening for you. Please please reconsider this. Changing the way border collies are bred will change the breed itself. You want a border collie for all the right reasons, these are not border collies. Please dont support this breeder by buying a puppy bred incorrectly. I know your heart is breaking and Im so sorry this is happening to you. But please see through your tears and hurt to realize how much of a bad practice this is. Please get a dog from rescue or from a good reputable breeder. I wish you much luck.

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Leanne,

 

If you are planning on workign sheep, then I would highly suggest finding another breeder. If you're looking for a companion, shelters are an amazing option. So many people get dogs without really knowing what they are getting themselves into, which unfortunately rarely turns out good for the dog. They buy puppies thinking "how hard can it be to rasie a fluffy little puppy?" and then a few months later, they end up surrendering a puppy that chews, nips, pees in the house, or tries to herd the kids, just because the dog has not been corrected for doing what it thinks is right. With proper training, love, and devotion, shelter dogs can turn around and give you so much more than you could ever imagine.

 

My BF and I adopted our now 6 month old female border from a shelter, and we couldn't have found a better dog. Also, her adoption fee was only $200 and included a vet check, her puppy shots, a free spay, a free bag of puppy food, etc. I don't know about rescues in your area, but they probably have a similar setup.

 

You may not be considering adopting a dog from a shelter, perhaps you want to know the dog's bloodlines. In that case, please please please rethink these breeders. If you get a border collie from these breeders it will only support the completely irresponsible production of mutts, as well as breeding borders for something other than their original purpose.

 

Ultimately, it is your descision whether or not to go through with buying this puppy, and I sincerely wish you all the best with your future dog - wherever it may come from.

 

Lisa

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