Tuck's BCBuddy

Psycho High Octane Ball Hound As in, how old is THAT dog? Ummmm, he's eight. What kind of dog is he? Cuz for eight, he sure is one Psycho High Octane Ball Hound. So where can I get one, he sure seems smart and well behaved for all that energy? Hmmm, well let's see...prereq's are, you must only require 4 hours of sleep per night, be ready to exercise at a moments notice, never EVER waste time (except that 4 hours wasting time asleep), and you can only acquire one from a reputable rescue organization (unless you have a sheepfarm) and then the dog must be neutered or spayed (okay, a bit redundant with the reputable rescue organization). So, you think you can handle it? Nah, don't know if I'm more tired from watching your dog, or from all the requirements of your sermon. Think I'll just get me a Bassett Hound on prozac.

Mark, Thanks for the info. You're right about more than I suspect, as being from Eastern PA, I would have suspected very very few. Even in PA, I would have suspected that the working breeders would rise in numbers as you move further west in the state. Of course, everything I suspected was just based on suspicion, and no concrete numbers. Again, my earlier comments were just for discussion purposes with no mal-intent or in support of any NJ legislation. Soo, thanks again.

I'll start with the disclaimer that my post in no way means I would support this bill, but for purposes of discussion I'm going to throw a log on the fire.... Would this not also hit the backyard breeder hard as well? I say this wondering how many actual "working breeders" you'd find in New Jersey. But then, of course, this type of legislation often sets a precedence and the adjacent dominoes begin to fall in line. Guess the old saying is true, "you can't have your cake and eat it too", eh? Could it be that this legislation needs to not necessarily be killed, but rethought and rewritten? As usual, my nickels worth in the form of a dime.

I know yall have seen your dogs in action, deductively reaching a solution to a problem, right? I'd be interested in hearing any stories to this topic. Here's one from Tucker... This lad and his ball are ALMOST inseparable. So one day I put his ball on top of the stairway door. The ball has a ridge and sat nice and snug. Step 1, for a few minutes, the Took is going from living room floor to partially up the stairs and back (you could almost see his mind at work, measuring the distance of each location, and realizing, "ain't no way I'm reaching this thing"). Step 2, the Tookster tries jumping at the door, hmmm "maybe we can knock it off of there". "Nope, ain't gonna happen." Step 3., the Took notices a potential interference with the top door jamb. "Hmmm, maybe I could push the door with me nose, and that board will knock it down." Ahh, the sweet smell of success, or is that freshly scooped kibble. Took a little while, but he figured it out. And the neat part, a few days later, I put it up there again, and I'd swear I saw him flip me the middle paw as he walked over, nudged the door into full swing with his nose, knocking it off at the door jamb. Not calculus, but I still thought it was pretty cool. So anyone else got any?

Once you get her to retrieve a ball and bring it back to you, be prepared, you may end up throwing out your arm. Tuck will play fetch for hours if you keep throwing the ball for him. And when your done throwing, he'll keep coming back, repeatedly picking up the ball and dropping it with a look in his eyes like, "come on now, it's only been an hour, throw it again, throw it again." Hehehe, anyway good luck.

Dita, Your correct, with my rather large nose, I may sometimes have trouble seeing past it and comprehending the bigger picture in life. I don't think it's just my nose, though, as on this issue, I believe my morals also get in the way. You see, I think you still miss the point. Noone is saying you can't appreciate the beauty of the Border Collie. Noone is saying you cannot/should not have a Border Collie as a pet. The constant and underlying theme is that the Border Collie should not be BRED for anything other than the working trait. If it is, those traits would get watered down, and eventually the dog you have come to appreciate will disappear. The dog you have come to appreciate is that dog because of what it was bred to be and breeding for anything else would ultimately destroy those characteristics you have come to appreciate. This is where my morals come in. As a big fan of the breed, and Border Collie pet owner myself, I would never take part in the systematic destruction of what I have come to love about Border Collies, and ruin the breed for those that do utilize these dogs for what they were developed to do. If that is evil, then I'm sure I will be sprouting horns and looking to purchase me a pitchfork this afternoon. Alright, enough, I'm getting long winded and I'm sure I've opened meself up to get blasted.

One thing Linda kinda touched on, that I don't think can be stressed enough.... It's not just about preserving and maintaining the breed, it's about improving the breed !!! ...and so I ask, how can anyone say they are going to improve, let alone maintain the Border Collie if they breed for anything other than the working traits that define the breed? In Carl's mechanical engineering trained, OCD perfect world, they cannot.

Been quite awhile since I've been here, and I know I'm coming in late on this thread, but can I just say.... I commend the folks early on, who posted pix of what a Border Collie should LOOK like. Not the physical appearance of the dog itself, but the look of the Border Collie being a Border Collie (i.e. the dog in action/at work). By the definition of some, some of the dogs in these pix had somewhat "conventional" physical appearance, while others looked quite "unconventional" by the standards of some. My point is that the pix showed, IMHO, the true definition of the Border Collie, dogs at work, on sheep, and in control. Okay, time to go back into the realm of silence again.

Hey Melanie, I'll have some of that filet mignon, heck, with a side of mutton, sweet taters, some green beans, and a twice baked potato.... Mystiqview, Seriously, though, the only way I could see where color should have any relevancy on breeding, is is if there are known health issues in breeding certain colors (as many have said, merle to merle). Any other appearance issues should be totally backseat (or thrown out the passenger window altogether) to the working ability of the dogs being bred. Myself, I don't have the know how to discern that ability, at least to the level of what dogs are qualified to be bred, and thus I'd never breed. You've said a few times that noone is getting what you are saying, but when you say you are not breeding for a color requirement, but, just don't want certain colors diluted, whether you realize it or not, you are saying you are breeding, to some degree, for a color requirement. In the North American "working" border collie world, this is just not an accepted practice. My opinion, my two cents, eh.

Margaret, I guess I'm confused as to what you mean by "should we". If not a question of legality, are you saying it's a moral dilemma? I don't totally disagree with you, on threads when scutiny is occurring against someone not even here, for instance, but in this thread, Megan had been participating in the discussion, and like Melanie, I think it has been a productive exchange. Of course, we digress, eh. Maybe a new thread on the ethics of web site discussions should be started .

Margaret, Is this crap really necessary? I assure you, the sarcasm was not missed in the first post. If you don't have the time to take part in the discussion at hand, please do start working on your list then. There has been no major broohaha? in this thread, so why feel like it needs indirect moderation. I'm sure Eileen is more than capable of direct moderation, and post removal, if necessary. Thank you.

Megan Writes: "I am done "defending" my postion, because clearly no answer I can provide will be satisfactory until I say what most of you seem to want to hear." We seem to have lost Megan, which is unfortunate, however, Megan, if you're lurking, I need to say the following: Conversely, most of the folks here are not saying what you seem to want to hear, which is putting you on the "defensive" on your position. Noone is asking you to necessarily defend your position. Sooo, don't give up on the discussion just yet, it's a good one. This thread can have super educational value, if not to someone involved directly, to anyone who may be silently lurking.

Megan, I'm sorry, but just because you have a list of people interested in the pups, does not justify breeding the dog. I'm quite sure I could breed a litter of border collies and have a real long list of people interested in the pups as well. Would I do this? Heck no, a good many would probably end up in rescue or worse. It's not about having a list, its having the right people on that list. I beg only one thing here, please carefully consider the people on your said list, scrutinize them like any good breeder or rescue organization would, and amend your list, as necessary. As I'm sure others can attest, there are far too many border collies in rescue already.

Me thinketh I senseth a troll...

My thoughts, exactly, Denise. If Brilliant Dawn is breeding 3 quarters show, and 1 quarter working line, what is the emphasis on in this breeding program? Seems kinda obvious, eh. Well, to the rest of us, anyway.