RMSBORDERCOLLIES

Nancy and I will be there running two dogs each providing she gets feeling better soon. It's been a tough year what with her Crohn's acting up very badly and me with a hip replacement, trialling has been scarce and we don't like it much. Bob

Hi Bill. In answer to he brings them direct and straight, that is a good sign, however he must obey you when you give him a flank. Be careful not to take something away that is very desirable though. He probably is flanking when you ask him but just not square because he is actually accomplishing what you want by doing the little flank. I wouldn't worry too much about it if he is bringing them straight and not letting them get off line. It probably won't hurt you on the fetch or the drive but it could come back to haunt you in the shedding ring and at the pen. Have to be square there. So, if you need a big square flank (sheep are really getting off line or running away or whatever) and he won't take it, drop him and then give him the flank, with lots of authority ( sharp and loud, whistle or voice) and insist that he do the flank properly. Don't let him do it wrong. With enough authority in your voice or whistle he will react to that, I'm sure. Then flank him all the way around in front of the sheep and make him drive them back to where you started. Don't do this routinely as it will get to be a habit. Throw it at him every now and then. It's a good test to see if he is listening also and will give you confidence that he will do as he's told when needed. If it doesn't work at a distance move back shorter and work from where it does work and then start moving out to greater distances when you see improvement. BE IN CONTROL BUT NOT CONTROLLING!... Have fun......Bob

Ok, a few questions to start with. 1) Does the dog do agility or flyball or any other action sport and how often? 2) You say that he is ok at the trainers. Does that mean that he still stresses but not as much or does he not stress at all at your trainers? 3)Is the dog a fast mover and high strung under normal conditions or just when working sheep at a trial? 4) Are you extremely nervous when trialling or are you having fun or trying to? 5) How often do you train and on what kind of sheep? 6) Are you limited in the amount that you can train? 7) Do you play games with your dog and what kind of games? I have seen a few dogs that react on the trial field this way and, at times, it is because of a high level of stress created by the handler for many different reasons and, at times, it is because of some outside activity other that sheep work that is causing the stress. I would very much like you to answer my questions as well as possible so that I can get some background on this dog in order to assist you with your difficulty. There are lots of things that can cause a dog to stress like this so I will wait for your answers and then we can try to sort this thing out. Thanks...........Bob

Hi Bill. I thought I was getting on but you have me beat by 6 years. I guess I'm still young but I am starting to hesitate to run out there also. You need to work your dog a little closer if he is squaring off good when close to you. Then you need to keep moving out a bit (10 or 20 yards as you see improvement). I also need to ask a question here to clarify whether the dog is bringing the sheep direct and straight to you even though he is not taking square flanks. I have seen dogs, line dogs actually, who look like they are not taking a flank but really are as they don't need to move much to keep the sheep on line. I actually have a little bitch, Jess, who is 8 now that can keep sheep on line and you wouldn't know that she is even moving, both driving and fetching but she is. If I do need to get her to go around the sheep I give her a hard flank with a sharp, loud whistle to let her know that I want her to get round the sheep quickly. If this is a control issue, what I mentioned about starting to insist on square flanks at a short distance and moving out as he progresses will work and it will take some time. If he is an older dog it won't take too much time as long as he will listen to you and you need to make him listen. Another thing that you could do but not all the time is to stop the dog and then flank him. A dog will more readily take a flank from the stop position, either down or on his feet than he will while moving. This is for training purposes only and you still need to give the dog the flank on the run and if he doesn't take it, drop him or stop him, and then give your flank. Use a good sharp voice or whistle so the dog knows you mean what you say and then continue on with your fetch. Don't drill to accomplish this. Mix up your training so that the dog stays interested all the time and be patient. It will come and you won't have to move those 78 year old legs too much in the time being........Good luck........Bob

Great interview and lots of good (great) tips in this one, especially concerning his Nursery dogs. Good advice for all. Thanks Lora for the post.......Bob Stephens

Hi there. YOur trainer is right IMO by saying not to stop her at this point. As long as she is lifting with gentle presence and able to get the sheep moving with confidence and she uses her balance to start them toward you that is what you want. It may be that she is not quite sure where to be on the sheep to get them straight to you and that is why she is doing the short flanks. One thing you can do to find out if it is lack of confidence causing these flanks or not is to move yourself (which moves the balance point) to see if she moves off to the change in balance point. Run to a different position on the field and see if she changes her balance point (pressure point) to get the sheep to you. If she does, you can be sure that she needs to do these little flanks. If not, then you need to do more of this so she will become a natural lifter and fetcher and hold the sheep on a line to you. Do not give any flanks or commands when doing this. You may need to give her some ssshhh's to let her know you have changed positions. If you need to give any commands the only one would be a "walk up". Let her determine where she needs to be to get the sheep to you. Be patient with this and encouraging. Remember you are training, not correcting. You don't want to have to tell a dog where to be and how to do a proper lift and fetch when on the trial field or working a flock. The better she knows how to start her run, the better the run she will have. Correct her with body movements, not commands when training the lift. Do this at a distance that is workable, in other words start short and work out to greater distances. Every dog has it's own way of lifting and they are better left as natural as possible with some fine tuning by you to make it as good as possible. If you need to slow her down on the lift a soft long "lie down" or "stand there" or "steady" if you have it yet is ok. You are not affecting balance by doing this just pace. "She goes fairly deep but she isn't always using her eye on her lift, unless she gets resistance, it's just kinda trotting in there and away we go !." This a sign of a fairly loose eyed dog and, in a way, you are right when you say she isn't using her eye. Because she doesn't have much eye. This kind of approach on sheep, in my experience, works very well, even on light sheep. This is because the dog has the confidence that the sheep will move and the sheep are not getting "eyed" to the point of fear and they are comfortable moving off as the dog has a nice soft presence. I said "soft" not "weak". Quite often this kind of dog, when young, will move sheep a little too fast at the start and have to correct himself or be corrected for that and that is reason for the nice soft drawn out "lie down" or however you slow your dog down. Try not using a harsh "lie down" as you want everything to remain nice and smooth like flowing water. "Also- once she lifts the sheep, she sometimes likes to slip into their eye on the come-by side. I try to catch it and slow her down before she does it, but if she has gone too far, should I flank her back to the correct position or ?" No, no flanks here either. Just slow her down so she is back behind the sheep, but first, make sure she doesn't need to be there. The sheep may be telling her that she needs to come up and flank them to keep them on line. Have a little patience and be ready to slow her down if needed but just watch for a second or two to see if she is still bringing them straight and, if so, leave her alone. If not, slow her down and go ahead and move around yourself to keep her aware of where you are so she will bring them straight to you. " If there is a strong draw to the other side, she'll cover it, but with no particular draw she wants to come around to their heads on that side. She is the lower end of medium eye, she's doing well with her driving and the eye comes out a lot more then, but I think now that she has a good start driving, I will really go back to more outwork with her. This feels like the kind of thing that can really bite me in the butt later on if I don't get it right now !" Once again, make sure that she doesn't have to be at their heads by giving her just enough time to tell if she's right or wrong. If she's right, of course, you don't have to do much but, if wrong, then the same thing would prevail. Just slow her down and control her pace. This could also be happening because her sheep are not moving fast enough for her and she is getting ahead or vice, versa; the sheep are getting away and she feels like she is not in control anymore and is trying to stop them. If that's the case you may have to be a little more forceful with your slow down and use a little more voice to get the required effect. You want to always mix your training sessions up so your dog is never drilled in anything. Work as many different phases of work as you can in a short training session and if one of the phases is not coming along too well, spend a little more time on that but don't overdo it. It becomes like a dog writing on a chalk board, " I will not do this bad thing" a thousand times and I don't think that ever worked too well with me and I don't see how it would work with most dogs. Keep it interesting and exciting and you'll have a much happier dog and handler and don't forget, your dog must do as she's told each and every time, no matter what! Be in control but not controlling!............Bob

Yes, Julie, I totally agree with you on this. There are too many types of dogs to even to think of categorizing them. They are all individuals and always will be. However, there are some generalisations that we experience throughout our time spent with our working dogs but they should never be thought of as categories. I personally, don't like the term "opinionated" to indicate that a dog is strong on his sheep. Presence is what we are looking for. "Opinionated", to me, would indicate that maybe he's a little stubborn and in his own head. I don't mind some of this in a dog as it shows that he likes to be in control but too much of it makes the dog very difficult to train and some are almost untrainable and not a joy to work with. I'm sure that lots of folks out there would agree that there are some generalizations that they have experienced that have become "accepted" as "probably" this or that will happen with this type of dog but it certainly should never be thought that it "will" happen. These dogs are too much individuals and too subject to environment to ever be able to lump them into some category so to speak. That's what makes them so exciting, entertaining and interesting to work with.......Bob

Yep, makes lots of sense Deb. That's really what it ws all about. Dog had no bad habits and was taught good manners while growing up and he came to me ready to listen and work with a ton of willingness and the brightness to get it all the first time. I really can't say enough about him and I would really like to find another like him but they don't show up every day do they? Bob

Yes, I sure do as my neighbour just lives up the road from me about 1/2 mile and we are pretty good friends. I bought my first border collie, Del'Mar Turk, from him. The dog, "Del'Mar Kep", had some exposure to sheep from the time he was about 6 months old but only in the form of circling and trying to catch him to stop him from working when Dave was finished trying to train him. He was and still is a very keen dog that lives to work but at that age he was not ready to take much direction other than just balancing. At 17 months he was ready. He spent a lot of time in the kennel with other dogs and he could see sheep when they were on the pasture opposite the kennel which was about every third week or so. I don't really believe that his upbringing had much to do with the way he started. He was never abused and was always treated kindly but he had very little introduction to sheep while growing up but he was treated very kindly and taught to do as he was told around his owner who is demanding as far as obedience goes. I believe very strongly that his breeding had more to do with the way he started than anything. Imp. Nell was a very good strong bitch from a very stockwise, biddable line being out of Johnny Wilson's Jan, a daughter of his ##Spot Double Supreme Champion and by Bobby Henderson's Kep, a son of his Double Supreme Champion, ##Sweep. She was a full litter sister to both J.H. Wilson's Sweep and Bobby Henderson's Spot, the 1st. and 2nd. placed Scottish Nursery Champions of 1999. Spot went to Joni Swanke after the Nursery and is now owned by Michelle Howard of CA. My Pat is out of Jess, a daughter of Canadian Champion, Peter Gonnet's Moss and my Del'Mar Turk who is a grandson of Bobby Dalziel's Double Supreme Champion ##Wisp. IMO I would go out on a limb and credit the breeding with the ease of training and the intelligence of this pup. He's a good one........Bob

Yep, those are the ones for me too. Don't mind working hard at the training but, in the final tally, the sheep got to move...Bob

I didn't take it as a debate either, merely a discussion of different types of dogs. No debate here. There's good ones in all kinds, and as trainers we need to learn how to train all of them whether that's our choice of dog or not. If not professional trainers, then pick the ones you like to train for their qualities but be aware that there are qualities that are imperative to have a dog that can handle all kinds of livestock. Bob

Hi Caroline. I don't think anyone is saying that they want a dog with no gather but there are lots of them out there that would prefer to drive rather than gather. Not as many as those that want to gather but they are there. The gather is usually in there but the type of dog I refer to is usually too impetuous to get to stock and would rather go right up the middle and smack them as quick as possible. There's nothing wrong with this type of dog to the right trainer who can bring out that outrun and fetch but if you aren't willing to put in the time, frustration and hard work to bring it out then stick with the natural gatherers. To each his own and you have to fit the dog to the handler if success is to take place. Bob

In my opinion the answer would be yes to both questions. Unfortunately the bitch who was a full litter sister to Michelle Howard's Spot is now passed on. He is by my RMS Pat and there was only one pup in the litter. She was almost 10 when she whelped. Bob

Yes, I think you are right about loose eyed dogs liking to drive and strong eyed dogs liking to gather. I train quite a few dogs each winter for ranchers in the area and I have found that the loose eyed ones generally love to push into their stock and the strong eyed ones love to gather them. This is a general statement as there are always those that don't fit the mold. Usually you are either teaching the drive with the strong eyed ones or teaching the outrun and fetch with the loose eyed ones. Mind you, I would love to train a loose to medium eyed dog with a lot of brains and willingness who had good balance and a good mind for pressure with enough presence to get the job done. I got one in like that last year and I sure wish he was mine. He had a 400 yard outrun on him, was doing inside flanks, and had a great stop with hardly any corrections on his flanks in just 12 days and I sent him back to my neighbour to go to work. And I don't deserve a drop of credit for the job. He just learned as he was shown and I only had to show him once for each discipline. Lord, get me another one of those. Should we be so lucky and the dog doesn't even trial. He's a work dog on a sheep ranch and his owner is in his glory. By the way, loose eyed dogs are quite nice with their stock usually and tend to not upset them when working. I have found that, generally speaking, most loose eyed dogs are usually quite strong on stock but not overly aggressive with them. Bob

That's great information Gregg. What I'm seeing is a good example of what breeding is all about. We don't produce clones, obviously. Yes, she is independant but that is not a bad thing. From what you tell me she is quite strong but not grippy and that is a good thing. When you block her to get her to stop that is what you need to be doing. This dog is going to be a very important learning experience for you so put your all into her. It is nice to have them biddable but, they are not all going to be that way and, with the proper type of training and handling she will probably be better than the biddable ones. You will not have the easy and enjoyable experience of seeing things coming together quickly right now but once you establish yourself as the absolute leader, you will see her start to progress very quickly. My suggestion right now with her is to go to the long line with her and establish a good stop. I would suggest that a "lie down" is a good way to start but if she starts to fight you too much with it AND IT APPEARS THAT IT IS NOT HER FAVORITE POSITION, then go for the "stand there" or whatever command you want to use to get her to stop. It must be perfect every time and done on sheep and then you can start to work with her on other things with the sheep. Take her to sheep in your larger pen or in a small one acre field and work along the fence with her on the long line. This line should be a minimum of 50 feet but preferably 100 feet. It should be attached to her collar which is tight enough that it won't slip off. Get a larger group of sheep about 8 or 9 if possible or at least as many as you can if you have less and walk the dog in behind the sheep along the fence just ssshhhing her quietly and and as she starts to break to chase or push them too hard tell her to "lie down" and jerk the rope hard enough that it makes her stop. Don't let her go around the sheep if she tries that because we don't want to interfere with her desire to gather. Then walk up to her and get between her and the sheep and push your self with your hand or hands in the air and go towards her and tell her to "stay there"in a very forceful manner. You are not asking her to do anything, you are TELLING her to do it. Walk away towards the sheep and keep telling her to "stay there" and when you get about 10 yards away go back to her and get hold of your line and quietly ssshhhh her on to the sheep again. If she walks on nicely go with her, quietly dropping back behind her so you are getting a little further away all the time. If you see her starting to show signs of breaking then lie her down again right away by JERKING the rope hard and giving her the command again. Once again go between her and the sheep, telling her to "lie down, stay there", walk around a little between her and the sheep every now and then reinforcing your control and telling her "lie down,. stay there". The reason I use both commands is that they are two commands, "lie down" being the act of going to ground, "stay there" being the act of staying where you are stopped. You will eventually use this and change it to "stand there" which will come easily at that time once you have trained the "stay there" which is easy to do. You must be diligent and firm and not accept anything other than that good quick stop. This is a dog which, once you have her under control will be able to do pretty well anything for you, but if not under control will be nothing but a futile headache. She is the type of dog that will demand that you be the leader and she will make it tough enough for you that you will realise that you must become the leader. It will not be easy and, at times, it will be frustrating but it will all be worth it. And when you are done and out at the post with all that confidence, you and she will appreciate all the hard work and time spent to get there. You DO have an individual that is not like the others. Don't worry about getting her to go around to the head of the sheep right now. You are not teaching her to drive, you're teaching her to stop and once you have the stop you can start teaching her to gather which is your next step. Try this for a while, get the stop on the dog and we'll go on from there. Remember, you are the master, the boss, the leader, that other fellow up there, etc., etc. I am not talking about being a tyrant. I am talking about being demanding and firm but kind at all times and kind does not mean that your dog can disobey you. Get back to me in a few days when you have the stop and we can go on from there........Bob

Hi there. Sorry I haven't got back to you sooner but I just returned from a very good trial in Alberta. I would really like to have a little more information in the form of some examples of what she is doing on and off sheep, when is it that you say she doesn't respond, is she bonded with you and all that kind of stuff. Have you had her to sheep and done any basics with her like starting her on outruns etc? Is she refusing to work or is she confused? Does she stop when you tell her to lie down or just keep on going? Give me some examples of her actions both on and off sheep and also how she is housed and how much time she spends with you away from working. It sounds like she has not turned on to stock yet but I do need more information before I can help you with her. Get back to me soon as I will be home for a while now. Bob

Nancy and I have used Revolution for years now, I think since 1999 with extremely good success. It is a heart worm medication which also gets fleas, mites, ticks and most worms. Once every thirty days is the dosing and don't try to go any longer if you want to be safe. We travel all over the country, both Canada and the States and have found it to be fool proof so far. That includes Arizona and CA in all seasons. Bob Stephens

Thanks Dave. See you in WA soon, I hope. Bob

Hi Suzanne. Yes, I remember you at Whidbey and the great run you had with your older dog. Good to hear from you. Regarding your young bitch, this is quite typical of a dog that loves to fetch sheep to you in that she will be slow to learn to drive. The sliding off is probably caused by her wanting to go to the head and bring them back all the time as she enjoys her fetching so much. The fact that she is not wearing tells me that she is not understanding what you want when asking her to drive. Consequently back to the basics. Get her to fetch the sheep to you and then move out of the way as she gets them to you and ask her to walk up. As the sheep pass you go with her by her side towards a fence so that you can call her to you if she starts to slide and go to the front. No corrections. The idea here is to get her comfortable with being behind the sheep and liking it and you can't do that if you are corercting her with an "Ah, Ah". That will turn her off. Encouragement is what you need now and lots of patience. This dog does not like the idea of taking sheep away, she wants to bring them. Working on the fence gives you and she the opportunity to only have to cover one side and what you need to do is encourage her to get going a little faster. I find a little "sshhh" gets them going quite well and lots of praise when they do start to push a bit. If she starts to slide and go towards the heads of the sheep just call her name and drop back from her side so she will stop going to the front of the sheep. Don't woprry about lines right now or corrections at all. As long as she is behind the sheep and not bringing them to you that is fine. When she has driven a short way (15 or 20 yards), you walk away and call her to you leaving the sheep where they are. You don't ever want her to fetch the sheep back to you at the end of the drive drive when you are training a dog to drive. She will learn that it is ok to leave the sheep and also to push them away from you over a period of time of doing this. As she progresses with her driving you start to drop back behind her more all the time until you are quite a ways behind and she is driving on her own. When your are training an individual exercise, make sure you don't drill with it. Do it for a short period of time and then mix it up with something else to keep the dog's mind active. Go to shedding or penning or work on flanks and then at the end of your session give her a chance to do a nice outrun, lift and fetch and end on that. Try it and let me know how she's coming later on. Be patient and encouraging right now. Once she gets it you can start putting on a little more pressure to make it better, but not right now. Good luck, sincerely.......Bob

I, obviously, don't know what size field or pen you are working her in but I would suggest that you move out to a larger field, about an acre, and start doing short outruns with her to gather the sheep to you. I think you are doing a fair amount of circling at a short distance and trying to teach the dog flanks and things might be a bit hairy doing this. I, personally, don't use a round pen nor do I circle a dog to teach flanks. The first thing I do with a young dog, even if they are still on a line, is teach it to outrun in a small field. This is done by getting between the sheep and the dog at about 50 yards or where ever you can control the dog, sshhing him out to either side, making sure he goes out and not straight in by moving towards him pushing him back and out at the same time. Before he arrives at the back of the sheep you start backing away so that he can bring them to you and keep backing away until he gets them there. This is a good place to use your lie down that is working to control the pace of the sheep. To keep the dog balancing move around as he is bringing you the sheep so that you change the balance point often so he's aware of where you are all the time. Basically you are teaching flanks when you send him on his outrun and when you get out in the field with him and your walking away from the sheep get to a point that you think he can gather well from, lie him down, back away to a point where you can control the arc of his outrun and send him again. This tends to keep the dog calm as compared to circling which tends to just fire the dog up more and more. Once you have the dog outrunning you can start to teach him his flanks. As far as the clappiness is concerened, it is probably being caused by working too close and creating a lot of pressure on the dog. When you start doing outruns, this will probably stop but the normal cure for a clappy dog is to keep it in motion while working and keep things as calm as possible. It's good that you have the down now as you are able to control things and now you need to stretch the dog out so he is not moving his sheep while flanking and take some of the pressure off. Be very careful with the use of the whip. It should only be used to make your arem longedr and not to scare the dog. Remember that down the road you will be using a stock stick or crook to run this dog and you don't want him scared or shy of it. If you need to break a dog's focus try calling it's name or clapping your hands rather smacking your whip on the ground. Yoiu can start putting a flank command on the dog when he appears to be getting fair at his outruns and then you can use the sshh and the flank all the time from then on until you just need the flank. Keep your dog moving as much as possible by you moving your self to change the balance point until the dog understands that he must be square on his flanks. Try not to work him in the flight zone as he will be moving the sheep all the time if you do. You do not want the sheep moving when teaching flanks or the outrun. I usually just keep doing short outruns and let the dog gather until he has his flanks down pat and then I wsill do short flanks to teach him to turn back on himself without a stop later on. I do not believe in drilling and some of these exercises can become drilling if carried on too long. Keep mixing up your training sessions so the dog doesn't become bored and don't train a young dog any longer than about 15 minutes at a time. Do it as often as you like during the day but no longer than 15 minutes or shorter if necessary. You'll know that you have worked too long as he's going to start making mistakes and quit listening and things are going to turn to mush on you. Do a short gather and end on a good note and quite right then. Try this and let me know how things are going......Bob

Hi Nancy. You got a good education with your son being able to stop the dog and handle him and the dog complying when handled by a person with a firm voice and confident manner. The key to handling him is not harshness but firmness and consistency making sure that he obeys your commands when given. This is a great dog and the kind that I personally like but they are not easy nor do they have a great willingness to please. They like to be in control and they also like to get things rolling when they can. If the handler does not make themselves known at all times these dogs will forget the handler is even there. He may not be the kind of dog you are used to or you would like to own but he is a good one. You may have to change what you want to see in the dog and accept the fact that he is who he is and treat him accordingly. They are all different and need to be handled differently. The sheep, to him, are objectes to be controlled and that is good. Now you have to teach him that you are the one that makes the decisions as to how they are controlled and not him. Once he respects you things will be much easier and you will start to make progress. I know you like the dog or you wouldn't be asking the questions. Try to be more firm with him and demand obedience of your instructions to him. He will respect you for that. He requires that kind of quidance and, without it, he will just be wandering aimlessly not accomplishing anything. One other very important thing: This dog will make you a better handler and trainer just in the mere fact that you get him to listen. Once he is listening you will be able to walk to the post with a great deal of confidence that you will not lose sheep on the course and you will finish so keep at it. Don't give up. It will come provided you are willing to learn and do the work. If I have sounded harsh or too overbearing forgive me as I sometimes come across this way. It is just because I know this type of dog and respect what they are capable of doing and there just aren't enough like them.......sincerely........Bob

Hi there. Sorry, the sheep work turned into two days worth instead of an evening. I would definitely work with a line to start with this dog. The line should be a small clothesline about 3/16" and 50' long. The collar should be tight enough that it won't slide off when leading him. Teach him his stop or stand before going any further with him. If he wasn't chasing and gripping I would say to start with short outruns but you need to get in charge of this dog so you can progress with the training. You don't need to insist on the dog being on his belly but you do need to insist on him stopping when told. That doesn't mean 3 or 4 steps afterward either. It means stop RIGHT NOW! Do this with sheep present so you know how firm you must be as there is a big difference with a dog stopping for you without the sheep and with them. Get your dog on the back side of the sheep from you and lie him down and tell him to stay. As you are walking backwards from him keep telling him to stay, pushing your hand at him making him aware that you don't want him to move. Get yourself back to the sheep on the opposite side of the dog and quietly tell him to "walk up". As he walks up toward the sheep raise your hand and walk towards him telling him to "lie down" or "stand there", whichever you are looking to train him to do. This should be done at a very short distance (20 yards or less to start) and you need to "ASK" the dog to "walk up" and "TELL" him to "lie down" or "stand there". If he breaks and comes right at the sheep, grab your line, get him to you with it, take hold of his collar and take him back where you told him to "lie down", and boldly and firmly tell him in a very harsh manner, "LIE DOWN" and "STAY"The reason we go back to the basics and get control of the dog are evident when you see what is happening when you can't stop him. The more he is allowed to run amok, the longer it will take you to train him to do it right. When you walk out onto your training area with the dog on his line don't let him get crazy right off the bat. Let him know you are in charge and he's not allowed to do the crazy stuff. Lie him down a few times on the way to the field so that he gets the idea you are in charge. Long line on him all the time. Get hold of him, let him know you are boss and things will go much better from here on. YOU ALSO NEED TO WANT TO BE IN CHARGE OF YOUR DOG. THAT'S THE HEAD SPACE YOU NEED TO BE IN. You can't bluff these guys. They're too smart for that. Get started with this and when you have a good stop on him we'll start to train him. Any questions feel free to ask and I'll do my best to get you going. Bob

Hi, I have some work to do with my sheep right now so will answer you question later this evening. Bob