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flyer

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  1. Edited my quote. I hadn't meant to leave the other sentence. Just to say that I think the art of science is where I am most comfortable and that I think it is an important aspect.
  2. I agree whole heartedly with the statement I bolded. Guess that makes me a pear, too. Edited as I had left a sentence in I hadn't meant to.
  3. Couple of things. My stockdog trainers aren't aware of Behan's work and I'm sorry I brought up his site. It didn't occur to me that comments would be mean spirited. I have always been an open minded sort. Love knowledge. Love learning. I don't pass judgments hastily. Too much I don't know. Most trainers around here are either all positive or alpha folk. Neither of those paradigms are a fit for me. The former had something missing and the latter, well it has never been a consideration. Behan has taught me to work with Colt's drive which I was actually working against using the CC techniques I was employing. Although Colt and Bea were happy healthy, mannerly obedient dogs before NDT, I now have access to Colt when he is under duress and can shift that anxiety very quickly into playfulness which then turns into relaxation. I appreciate Behan's site, his generosity and insightful suggestions. Anytime his work has been criticized on his site or in discussions he has had on other forums, I have never seen him say a mean word to anyone. He is very capable of a back and forth discussion in a very respectful way. I'll take my leave, now.
  4. To each his or her own. No convincing necessary on either side. Slurp!
  5. He isn't calling reasoning or deducting or thinking energy as he does not believe dogs do any of those things. I admit when I first started to read his site I thought whoa, new age and I am uncomfortable with new age. I kept reading though, because there was so much that was so interesting and resonated and I see that Behan is actually very much grounded in reality and his work has helped me so much with Colt in particular. I haven't needed any help with Bea, but she has truly benefitted. Behan's work gets to the heart of the dog. What I see in his vid's is the same relationship I see with a lot of stock dog people and their dogs. At least the one's I admire. Here is a link to Behan answering the why call it "energy" question. http://naturaldogtraining.com/faqs/whats-t...such-as-energy/
  6. I don't understand the anger. I have always had a dog. Always. Throughout my childhood and adulthood. I also train and work with horses. My Colt dog does much the same thing as your Jackson. I really have no wish to argue. I find great value in Behan's work. Hundreds and hundreds of dogs have gone through his father's kennel and then his own through out a lifetime. He has trained his entire life. I'm thinking he may know a few things.
  7. I don't understand how this is arrogant at all? Would one of you mind explaining? Personally I don't see intellectual facility as being a superior way of being. i.e. I've never been insulted by a dog.
  8. Ooky, I am not able to answer your questions. I'm sure I'd get some things wrong. I am in the midst of exploring and examining all of this myself. As I said I have been using Behan's NDT for only a couple of months now, but the reason I glommed onto his work is that it fits with how I operate in general with all animals. It makes total sense to me. Took me a while to understand Behan's writings as he tends to write stream of consciousness style and it does seem out there at first, but after I put the principles into practice I began to understand his writing much much more because I was seeing the results. It's actually a very simple premise. I am focussing the work on the heart and drive of my dogs. The more I observe animals the more I see the energy/emotional paradigm makes the most sense. One can feel the energy, one can see the emotional life in a dog. I have still not seen any proof of reasoning or thinking. I get what you say about numbers and energy. Of course you feel it. I am an actor and a writer and trust me that is all about energy and feel. Anytime one is involved in a creative endeavor that is the place we live in whether that be acting, painting, writing, music, designing, gardening and on and on. The mind is consulted, but the richness is in the feeling senses, the heart. You see not anthropocentric at all. I have enormous respect for all creatures. I don't see humans as being superior because we think. Look where all that thinking has got this planet. Go read Behan's site and ask him questions. He is a very open guy and 100% dedicated to dogs.
  9. This is a really clear example I think of what happens very frequently when a dog is disobeying. The dog is caught between it's energetic alignment with the human and the sheep. It knows what the job is, knows it does the job with it's human partner who wants the same thing and the dog is trying to do that in spite of the human mistake. Nothing "willful" here, IMHO. Liz: "I wonder how often they think, "If humans can reason, then why don't they do it all the time?" I think if they could think they would think this a fair bit
  10. I don't know of course who is right, you or I and I am certainly very much in a learning place with all of this, but it was actually taking Bea to sheep and seeing her "turn on" that got me looking more deeply into working on this other level with a dog. What Bea did in that field made me sit up and take notice. I don't see her innate ability to work stock as being a reasoning thinking sort of thing at all. In fact it felt way more like a feeling instinctual intelligence. I have worked with horses for a while now and they work from an energy place too and work off feel and pressure. When I taught Bea to sit when she was a little pup when she hesitated I simply leaned over her very, very slightly, some might not even see me lean and she would instantly sit. My instructor is working with Bea in the field with absolutely no words. It was like watching a ballet this week when moments of flow would happen between the two of them and the sheep. I see Bea feeling of the sheep and reading them inside her core not her brain. I don't think she is having conscious thoughts about if a sheep drops that shoulder it is going to run out. Her instinct and talent that she was bred to have are being stimulated and she is working from that place. Now that I am working a trained dog I find that I am most able when I leave my brain at the gate and get into that feel place myself. Feeling the dog and the sheep. Since I am learning I have to use my brain, i.e. do I say go by or away , and that is often when I lose either the dog or the sheep. Good thread!!
  11. I don't think I am very good at explaining all this. I didn't intend that the dog was thinking anything at all. The table is a very charged spit for the dog. It is the human's eating place. The dog doesn't eat there, so he is feeling options out in an organic way. Very similar to what rootbeer suggests. If dogs can reason then why don't they do it all the time?
  12. Oh no, no, no, no. I don't mean prey in the sense of eating. I mean in it's energy sense. It is simply more attractive. Much more attractive.
  13. Simply suggesting another way to interpret. FWIW, I do not for once think a dog is any less than a human being because it does not reason. Humans can take a lot of lessons from animals, IMHO. Intellectual intelligence can be highly over rated.
  14. Yes Toyota has built the perfect recall but not in the manner you're speaking of. Poor Toyota.
  15. I agree with so much Bekoff has to say since he sees canines as highly emotional beings, but yes, we can agree to disagree re: conscious thought processes. I think he is misinterpreting what he is seeing and I am with the critics who say he is anthropomorphizing.
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