TAC2

We are located in Central Virginia and would like to locate potential herding trainers in our area. I've checked the Virginia Border Collie Assn. website but did not find it too helpful in locating trainers. Even the web calendar would be for folks already 'in the know' since it only mentions farms - no locations. We don't have a dog yet and will most likely be looking at an older dog or adult rescue with herding potential. I have already been to the Montpelier Fiber Fest trial and will visit Ms. Thompson's demo at the upcoming Richmond Highland Games and Celtic Festival. At this time my primary interest is in ending up with a good working farm dog, though trialing is a possibility if herding becomes the addiction it appears to be, but that would be a future time and likely another dog. Thank you for any recommendations! ~ Tru www.freewebs.com/laingcroft

Hi Again! I've been doing a bit more reading on-line, ordered a couple of books and checked out a few rescue sites. I have set my mind on an older dog, most likely a rescue with an interest and aptitude for herding. In order to fill out applications, I've been gathering my thoughts to determine exactly what I need a Border Collie to do. My concern is will this be enough to keep one happy and sane? This dog will be both a working dog and a companion animal. Trialing may be something I develop an interest in with training and exposure, but right now I really need a 24/7 working farm dog. As I posted earlier the kids (human) are leaving the nest and often I will need to handle the farm on my own - any situation that arises. With only three sheep and three goats at this time, it's fairly easy, but can be time consuming and strenuous - moving everyone one at a time or bribing with treats, etc. Our critters are semi-lead trained but no one likes to be led off alone or last left to go. So I mainly need a dog for moving sheep from pasture to pasture, shedding (cutting) sheep for shearing, medical treatments etc., monitoring/moving sheep to/from non-fenced grazing areas like lawn around house, orchard, veggie garden paths (if I can keep them out of the produce that is!) and be tough enough to deal with rams during breeding season if necessary. Also to round up ducks and/or chickens when they get into places they shouldn’t be, help move goats ***this is really FUN...not *** from pasture to pasture, acting as general K9 patrol outside of pastures (LGDs have inside pastures covered) and of course play with non-working house dogs – k9 created games, retrieving, find-it (find hidden toy, person, etc. aka SAR type training games), enjoy beach and pool time with Portie who will be starting water work training in the Spring because the Westie HATES water! Also, travel well and of course, behave in the house – primarily on 6-10 days per month during school year when the BC would be home alone with the house dogs until humans come home. This is my biggest concern - with plenty of work to do at other times are there BCs that would appreciate or at least accept a little down time? Or do they all need to be busy and doing non-stop? Right now we only have a little over 10 acres so another concern is the dog would be within sight, sound and smell of the stock, day after day, all day. Will this make a BC crazy not being able to constantly work the sheep? Am I expecting too much? Thanks again! ~ Tru P.S. our sheep are larger breeds - currently BFL ram lamb he'll grow to between 250 - 300 lbs. and two Corriedale ewes. The girls are now bred and we anticipate lambs in March. We will also add two BFL ewes and two Coopworth ewes in mid 2009 with a Texel ram to round things out in 2010.

Hi Lynda: I'm new here myself and don't currently own a Border Collie, but I'll say welcome anyway Deepest sympathies on your loss. I lost my best buddy last year - a German Shepherd - to cancer; he was only 9 Never been to Kamloops, but we know a breeder of Canadiens (Cheval Canadien) near you - Cherry Creek. Are you familiar with it? It's been several years since our mare moved on to new pastures, but I just love the breed. Our girl came from Rohirrim Farm in New Brunswick. Zoe raises Canadian sporthorses crossed on the Canadien. ~ Tru www.freewebs.com/laingcroft

One comment to add on keeping dog out of baby's room. We do not allow our dogs in bedrooms and they know it. They have their own beds/crates and most often prefer to sleep there. I know alot of people like to sleep with their dogs, but this is a deal I made with the DH when we first married (and dogs came with me). It has worked out well over the years because I have developed a few allergies and one of our children also has allergies. Anytime we needed to treat the house for fleas with bombs, we could close the doors and keep chemicals out of the bedrooms. For those whose dog(s) don't interact with other dogs often this probably isn't an issue, but wherever there are k9 competitions, dog parks, etc. there are usually fleas. Keeping fleas (and ticks, etc.) out of baby's room isn't a bad idea. As (s)he gets older, the rules can change if desired. Just my 2 cents.

What age is the BC typically physically mature? I'm guessing around 6-9 months but obviously I could be wrong. LGD aren't physically OR mentally mature until around 2. As a general rule (always exceptions) the smaller the breed/dog, the earlier the maturity. Is that true of BCs? Again, I will most likely look for a mature rescue that has some herding aptitude. I don't expect a trainer to come help me do my chores every day --- though that would be nice At any age, a dog on our farm would be expected to keep manners in mind. So I guess I would like to know what age constitutes "from the beginning" for herding specific stockdog work. With a rescue this would be useful to know so I can apply only for the dog old enough to start training and not get suckered in by the "puppy face" I would love to find a fully trained dog, but the reality is I have to put in the sweat equity --- and I'd like to learn as I go so I have a better idea of what we're supposed to be doing and how to get from A to B. Does that make sense or is it now as clear as mud :D ? ~ Tru Laingcroft www.freewebs.com/laingcroft

I don't even have a border collie yet, but I too am curious about this. However, I am looking at it not from a trialing perspective but a day-to-day working dog perspective. Of course, I am also leaning more and more toward an older/mature rescue to start with. We currently have three LGD and they are "started" from birth - raised with the stock and need minimal to no training, just corrections for bad behaviours (mouthing the stock, the bark at their own shadow stage around 9-15 months, chasing, etc.) On the other hand, house dogs start basing training from the day we bring them home. Everyone learns to sit before feed bowl is placed, manners, etc. "Formal" obedience starts in a social situation (classes) at 4 months. Our GSD was Schutzhund trained and we started obedience, protection and tracking at various stages as the dog was ready - 12 weeks, 12 weeks and 8 weeks respectively. All done in baby steps and motivational positive reinforcement to start. Corrections began when the dog knew what was expected and chose to do something else - or ignore the command, usually around 6-9 months and up. The work (the ball, the bite, the treat) is always the reward for playing by the rules. Any BC that joins our farm would be a working dog or pup from the get-go. Exposed to stock from the day it arrives and expected to play by the rules...no chasing, biting, mouthing, etc. Early on, I plan to do what I always do, the dog comes along when chores are done, but at what point do I start the "formal" work of allowing or directing the dog to manage/move the stock? At what age is a trainer required? I guess I should also add, I have NO experience using a herding dog and hope to find a local trainer before any dog arrives. The sheep have all been worked by BCs before, the goats have only been with LGDs and the ducks & chickens are used to being scattered by the house dogs. ~ Tru Laingcroft www.freewebs.com/laingcroft

Don't know about a partridge, but we did have a peacock in a maple tree once! Scared the bejeebers out of me -- really horrible sound they make for such a pretty bird! Don't know how to post pictures here yet, but you can see plenty of pics on our website. Just be aware that Freewebs will sometimes lock in frames and you can't just hit the back key out - must enter a new email addy or use your favorites/bookmarks. We are in search of a formal (paid) webhost if you have any to recommend. ~ Tru Laingcroft www.freewebs.com/laingcroft

Thanks Sue. I do realize rescue is not synonymous with issues, but there are those that do have issues of various types. I just listed the things I won't take on. As for crates, I've been raising dogs a good 30+ years now and we always use crates. When the dogs are older and house reliable they aren't crated or exercise-penned all day (only during puppy/housebreaking) so they are essentially free to get into mischief if they choose on the days no one is here. Most often they sleep and store up energy for when the humans do get home --- the Zoomie time. However, the thought of a BC, PWD and Westie together and the trouble they could think up is rather frightening I've been to the Montpelier Trial twice - three years ago and just this year. That's how I found out about the VA Assn. Already been to their site as well and found this board through following the links. We'll also attend the demo at the Richmond Highland Games (Celtic Festival) too. Thanks again! ~ Tru Laingcroft www.freewebs.com/laingcroft

We've had goats for several years angoras and crosses of spanish, kiko, boer and nubian. Angoras are the most laid back of the goats. Of course they need to be shorn too. If there is a single bramble in the pasture, they will find it, nibble it down and manage to get the thorny stem woven/felted into the mohair. Their feet are also softer and need more frequent trims and parasite resistance is limited, but if you are in dry areas of Texas they do very well there. Goats love to climb, many are escape artists, particularly spanish and pygmy. Electric fencing or hotwire at 10" and offset from top of woven fences also work. Intact males - bucks - STINK during fall rut; does and wethers have little/no smell other than that "lanolin" woolly type smell --- even though it's not lanolin per se. ~ Tru Laingcroft www.freewebs.com/laingcroft

My first concern would be is he injuring himself with the somersaults? His bones are still developing and a pinched nerve in the spinal column would be bad. Scale down the distance of the retrieves to close in. What works for our dogs when (rarely) they don't want to bring it back, walk in the opposite direction. He should pick it up and come running after you. We also keep certain toys like the frisbee and tennis balls as special treats only. They have to "work" before they get the game. And of course the ball doesn't move on its own so it must be brought back to hand before it moves again. Works like a charm. ~ Tru

Hello to all the BC Enthusiasts! I have a "Catch 22" question I hope someone can help me with. First a little background. We (me, DH, youngest child - oldest is away at college) live in a rapidly developing rural area in Central Virginia. Over the years we've had many types of livestock but the current residents are - three goats, three sheep (with more to arrive in spring - hopefully during lambing - and by purchase), three LGD (one of whom is in need of a new home W/O poultry) two house dogs (a Westie and a Portuguese Water Dog with PHD - Portie Hyperactivity Disorder ), a kitty, five ducks and 30 or so chickens. With family slowly shrinking and stock slowly expanding, I will be in need of some assistance around the farm and I think a working BC may be perfect...HOWEVER... I also work outside the home, know nothing about herding training (though I have worked with equines, dogs, sheep, goats and mini-donks over the years and can "read" stock pretty well) and can only be away from the farm for training but so long ( Herding folks in VA???). The DH is a firefighter-paramedic with a crazy schedule who helps when he is available, supervises dogs on days I am cannot and play ball/frisbee with them periodically but has no interest in training, though perhaps maybe in SAR. We also lost our beloved GSD last year who we trained in Schutzhund under the Ernstings (NVK9Academy & Podium Sch. Club) and have had several other dogs over the years. During college, I was briefly (long, sad story) owned by a BC/Terrier cross rescue who was my most favorite dog next to the GSD so I am somewhat familiar with BC temperament. Our household rule is NO critters on furniture or in bedrooms and we start this training from the get-go so I know it can be done...even with cats. But if a human gets down onto the dogs' turf i.e. the floor, (s)he is fair game! Currently, DH has reached his limit with destructive behaviors (the Portie is 10 months old...we're calling her JAWS) particularly since the things getting destroyed are his. YES, he is really bad about putting things away and puppy proofing so its really no big surprise things get chewed! Therefore, I'm thinking an older dog or rescue. A little more time for this phase to pass might be helpful before I actually bring home a new dog (next year?) We've also discussed getting another shepherd, but our house is poorly laid out and the evening zoomies can get really hectic. My aging knees can't take the big dog body slams (accidental of course) any more so I'd prefer a medium sized dog like the BC with less weight behind them (though I am aware that a moving dog weighs ten times more!) On the other hand, a rescue may have issues I can't deal with - no desire to work (this is the Primary reason for getting the dog), dog-on-dog aggression (I don't what to deal with issues of who can be in what room with whom at any given time), couch potatoes --- literally --- and of course stock killers. So what do you think? Would a BC be happy here given all the pros and cons of our situation? We have plenty of work when folks are home, but there would also be lots of time when the dogs are home alone to entertain each other (GULP! that is scary!) Would a rescue work? I know there is a VA Assn for BCs --- is there a list of trainers that work with the humans as well as the dogs? Our three sheep have been worked with BCs by their breeders, goats haven't a clue and the chickens are used to being scattered to the four winds by the Portie. I've also thought about training the Portie to herd since she loves "chasing" the stock, but she is too scatter brained and squirrelly to really work. Thank you for any comments or insights! We will also be attending the Richmond Celtic Highland Games on Oct. 26th if anyone will be there for the herding demo. ~ Tru Laingcroft www.freewebs.com/laingcroft