alligande

Total agree with Gentlelake and D'elle, its definitely not a border collie thing and your trainer is not helping by not helping you get it under control. My older dog can be squeally when he is excited to do something but I keep it under control by simply waiting for calm before continuing, I love his enthusiasm and never want to take that way, but I also don't want to work with a barking squealing beast. 

Our first border collie had kidney failure, unfortunately we only found out when it was very far gone, we had no clue there was any issue until he had a seizure. As kidney function was so far gone, we made the decision in conjunction with our vet to go for quality of life. So we opted not use an rx food as he hated it and I never asked what he ate when he was with my husband! He had 3 good months, we gave him fluids most nights but gave him the option to opt out, he hated needles so we were amazed how comfortable he was with the process. He never seemed to be in pain or discomfort, and for an old man remained reasonably active up to his last day. He passed peacefully in his sleep, he always slept beside me and I found him in the morning curled up like a sled dog, his normal position with his eyes closed. 

I met litter mates at an agility competition, at the time they were 4, one was already really grey and the other had none. My first dog I was told was about 18 months to 2 years, but she actually grew so I reckon she was 10 months max, if I had known then what I know now it was obvious she was a goofy kid. 

My youngest weighs 23kg and my oldest between 26-28kg both slim and in good shape, they are actually a similar height but the youngest one is built like a giraffe all legs, while the older one more closely resembles a tank! Locally in agility I am known as the person with the oversized border collies! I have had 3 large ones and one normal 40lb sized one. 

20 hours ago, UMANOODLE said:

Hello Alligande  I LOVE this story - thank you for sharing. I love long hair tri males, had 2 so far. Since my boy passed I have been looking at rescue and ISDS pups as well. Are you in the UK? I have recently passed on an ISDS well bred pup. SO the search continues. xx

I am actually in Mallorca but my pup came from Scotland, we drove from Mallorca almost all the way to Aberdeen to get him it was one of the reasons we got him, I had booked our ferry tickets and hotels on the Friday and on the Sunday the breeder of pup 1 told me about the problems, while my husband and I debated what we should do, I was told about pup2 who was only 3 days younger so all our plans would still work, and so after lots of research and careful  selecting breeder 1, I ended up just taking a chance and we got pup 2, he is the smartest dog we have ever had, but he is challenging to train as he is an over thinker, he is though a great pet as he is really mellow at home. All my previous border collies were American. 

I have had 4 long haired male tris, all by chance not planning. The first I fell in love with a pretty face on a local shelters website, I spend 4 months persuading my husband to go look at him, we had him 2 years for before we admitted he was a border collie! When he died I started my search for middle aged border collie as my GSDx cross was miserable as an only dog, we got a referral from a local breed rescue and adopted Brody straight from his previous family, all we knew when we went to meet him was that he was 3 and male (his owner had died suddenly in early 70s and his widow could not cope with him) and now we had another long haired tri. A couple of years later our GSDx died and I was on the hunt for a young dog, under a year to be my agility partner, the same rescue was contacted by a family in PA and a week later I had a 4 month old long haired tri. Move on a few years and I start my search for a well bred ISDS registered puppy, I select the breeder and choose a smooth haired black and white boy, but it wasn't to be, health problems with the liter meant that they wouldn't sell registered and to a pet home, BUT I was given a lead on another liter of the same age but privately bred, when the breeder sent me photos of the liter, I just laughed all 7 were long haired Tris! I live in a climate and location where a smooth would be nice, but tris seem to be attracted to me 

D'elle and  gcv-border rescues in the UK can be very challenging when it comes to people with jobs, it has really surprised me how to be blunt how ridiculous they are about it compared to the US. There are usually plenty of border collies in rescue but getting one can be absurdly challenging.

I do think calm is a personality trait, that can be a product of breeding, a friend has 2 sports bred border collies and they are bonkers, the younger one who has been with my friend since puppyhood is a little less but we are talking a small degree, they are so bad,  my husband has made me promise I will never get a sports bred border collie, they are frequent house guests and make my 2 look like a different breed. We teach calm from puppy hood, how to relax etc, but my older dog also wants to do he is just always on, I can take him anywhere, we travel a lot together but he is not chilled, my youngster who the breeder spent an hour and half on the phone with me for our first conversation making sure I could cope with a working bred high drive dog, what I have is a laid back couch potato who comes to life for agility but in life is more relaxed than the average lab.

The UK lockdown is not so strict that if you get the pup you won't be able to expose them to everything, remember socialization is not just about meeting other pups, its been comfortable with cars driving by, another dog walking on the opposite side of the street, not eating the hoover or attacking the hose pipe. For training there are loads of excellent online classes, Fenzi Dog in particular comes to mind but there are a ton of others. This could be  great time to get a pup and enjoy raising one as you have the time. 

11 hours ago, GentleLake said:

@alligande,

Doesn't sound to me like Duende's dog is a puppy, so the exercise comment probably doesn't apply.

@Duende, congratulations on your new dog. What she said about brain games is still very relevant. Your adult dog will need some exercise but trick, obedience, agility and other types of training (like scent work) are all very mentally stimulating and can do a lot to tire a dog out. Since you've only had your dog for a short while, take this opportunity to train good manners and anything else  you can think of just to occupy his brain.

By the way, we love to see pictures here.

I completely miss-read the post  .......

The best thing you can do is brain games, lots of silly tricks. Your guy is only a baby so he doesn't need that much exercise. When my guys were pups they got their meals when training, they are both agility dogs so we are big on foundation work, learning where your feet are etc. You can get a lot of fun out of learning how to get in a box, learning to close a door the options are endless. As he is a baby he will be fine without the exercise, but make sure you expose him to all sorts of weird things, the vacum cleaning, weird noises on your phone, because you can't get him out to socialize, make sure he is getting lots of exposure at home. 

My boys are actually handling it well, my youngster is getting "depressed" for want of a better word, our days start with some canine fitness, we get some running by doing wraps around cones and practicing our agility handling on the roof, if I have time we will do another short session later. I am careful because this type of work can be intensive and it is easy to over do it and hurt them. When it was raining yesterday we went back to working on a trick that is our rainy day game and maybe one day will master. 

Hope that helps.

sorry I read that your dog was 4 months old not that you had had him for 4 months. Much of it still applies, 

check out this Facebook group, you will find all the basic exercises and skills for canine fitness. It was created by Dr Leslie Eide who is a specialised sports rehab professional, so everything is taught correctly.https://www.facebook.com/groups/2507428409524778/

It can be a normal stage, my youngest dog thought all dog poop was delicious. The only thing we could do was be extra vigilant on keeping the place clean so he didn’t get a chance. He grew up to be a fastidious dog who doesn’t touch anything undesirable, doesn’t roll in dead stuff etc. My older one had an obsession for goose poop, so when the Canada geese arrived in their thousands I had to be careful where we walked, by the next migration season he had grown out of it and is also a dog who doesn’t eat strange things.

Congratulations Gentle Lake on your new family member she looks adorable. 
 

We have been in lockdown for what seems for ever but is actually 4 weeks. I am in Mallorca, Spain and although the mainland has been hit hard particular Madrid and Barcelona the islands haven’t but we are all subject to the same conditions. Let’s just Spain has a very efficient police force and a lot of them, road blocks are a regular occurrence here at roundabouts and now there are more. The last two weeks everything but essential services ( basically supermarkets, pharmacies and essential repair services like plumbers) you can only have one person in a car, lots of restrictions and big hefty fines. 

The only reason to leave home is to go the supermarket and take the dog for a walk but that has now been restricted to about 50m just so the can relieve themselves. And the police have the power to hand out big fines up to 3000 euros. So for the last 2 weeks since they got strict  the dogs haven’t left home, we have enough space to entertain them and putting collars and leashes on them gets them excited and a quick pee on a tree on the sidewalk doesn’t do anything for them. I have become their entertainer, I feel like one of those people on a cruise ship except it’s for 2 border collies.

She is looking good, spending time with our Special friends when they are seniors is always a special time in our relationships with them. No more learning, just enjoying each other and understanding each other.

Take a look at Dave Munnings Q-me agility classes. He is one of the UKs top handlers (might be the best) his online classes are very affordable and don't require a lot of equipment or space, you can do masses with one jump. (as an aside I used to take my stuff to a local park before I lived 10 minutes from my club) I would recommend adding his facebook support as it well help you learn. 

I am a committed and dedicated agility competitor, my youngster is agility partner #3, the most important thing to remember is that it is a team sport it goes way beyond dog training, there is loads for you to learn, I have been competing over 10 years and I am still learning all the time. 

The fundamentals are important for both of you to be successful and learning those fundamentals doesn't have to be boring. You say he knows hand signals for turns etc but applying them in the fast moving environment of an agility course is very different. When we teach foundations we want to make sure that the both team members have the fundamentals down so that neither gets frustrated and have long term problems as they advance. The other aspect is safety, the contact equipment can be unsafe if not taught correctly, the same applies to jumping you can hurt a dog if you are not careful. 

As a sport agility has changed a lot in the last 10 years, its got faster and more complicated which is why good teachers put more emphasis on the basics, but fundamentally its still loads of fun for both team members.

My dogs are raw fed, the older one has excellent clean teeth even if they are 1/3 size they should be from a habit of carrying logs around. The younger one has one area that is dodgy and shows plaque, it’s better since I switched to raw but certainly not pearly white.  As already mentioned genetics play a role, a previous border collie also had teeth that needed periodic cleaning, whilst my other dog at the time only needed dentistry when she cracked a tooth at 12. Other than a decent diet and raw meaty bones I don’t do anything special, between all the things I do with my dogs I don’t have the discipline to start brushing.

My boys are recreational sheep dogs. Its an hour drive for them to go, when I started out we went once a week approx to get them started, and now about once a month. My oldest dog is 10 now and he only started a year a go, has natural talent and loves to work. My youngster is a well bred working dog, but doesn't have the same instinct as my older rescue dog, but I persist as I feel it helps his focus and confidence. Their full time job is agility, I have seen no negatives introducing them to sheep, if anything I would say they have more self control as that is what they are really learning in a field full of sheep.

We have boys, my husband and I prefer boy dogs, so that is what we have. Its just a weird personal preference based on all the foster border collies we have had the only ones we have wanted to keep have been the boys. I currently have two intact males, the youngest came as a puppy and there has never been any problems between them. 

So sorry Sue, over the years I thoroughly enjoyed reading about Celt, learned an amazing amount with your detailed story of his rehab and everything else. Thank you you for sharing him with us.

It’s a very traditional way to train a release among competitive obedience trainers, it has always made me uncomfortable, I am a “force free” trainer especially when dogs are learning new things I just can’t imagine any animal including humans being able to learn well with the threat of pain. Now if you walk across my coffee table because it’s the shortest route I am not permissive you will be hearing a suitable correction, but it won’t be physical.  

14 hours ago, CptJack said:

Kiran's 2.5 and intact.   I see no reason to neuter him.    We, in the US, have been very conditioned to believe that  if an animal in intact it's going to breed.    WE've  also been conditioned to believe  that dogs  can't handle  being in season or around dogs in season without becoming  an uncontrollable maniac.    Neither of those are really true.   Kiran fairly regularly competes and trains around intact bitches,  and while he might be a little more sniffy sometimes, that's about the extent of it.   He's not alone.  Intact is more  common in the sports community and as a result dogs learn to deal.      The same is almost  certainly true in countries where s/n  isn't  the norm - and, in fact and point of  interest,  have almost no  over population problem or unplanned  litters, ever. Norway's a good example.

Both my boys are intact at 10 and 3 1/2 and living in Spain they regularly encounter bitches in season, the older one has absolutely no interest in girls, the younger one loves girls but there has never been a time I have been concerned about an accidental matting. The OP doesn’t say what country she lives in so her vets advice might be the norm, even in the US my vet advised me to keep the oldest one entire for as long as possible and not bother if he wasn’t an annoying boy. She was a breeder of standard poodles and told me she had clearly seen the difference in her puppies between those who were neutered late and those at the standard 6months. But as she admitted this was not advice she gave everyone.

USDAA have a version of Rally. 

https://www.rallydogs.com

Sorry I have to agree with Gentle Lake there is no CBD oil in there. As you commented that you haven't seen any change in behavior maybe try a real CBD oil. From everything I have read about CBD it is suggested to use the oil directly and not buy the treats as you have no idea what you are getting.

13 hours ago, D'Elle said:

This is not uncommon. It's kind of like a teenage human being. So don't worry that something is going wrong. Any time that a dog reverts to untrained behavior is time to go back to the basics of the training and do it again. this is true no matter how old the dog is.  Just go back to your training and make sure that you are giving really good rewards for doing it right. Make it fun and be sure that you always have an upbeat and happy attitude when you are training. If you are not already doing reward-based training, or positive reinforcement training then start now. 

 

This is excellent advice, keep it fun, don’t let him be a jerk and and eventually a nice dog will return. 

I bought my first non-rescue puppy from a small scale breeder in Scotland. To me the only reason to breed is working ability, this litter was bred as each of them were ready for a new dog. 

I am glad that you are looking for an ISDS dog, my youngster comes from a working mum and a dual purpose dad, open trial and grade 7 agility. 

I wouldn't worry about a pup being reared outside if it is being handled and exposed to life, what could be more scary than large farm equipment! My youngster was raised in the house with a couple of kids but he never went any further than the kitchen and the garden, so I am not sure how different that would be to being in a barn on an active farm. He has grown into a confident young man, from 10 weeks on he was taken on lots of adventures and exposed to a huge variety of things. 

What I looked for: 

Reason for breeding,

Health testing,

quality of the parents. 

As I am not in the UK I went onto a number of UK based sheepdog groups and did some networking and that's how I found my pup, the litter was never advertised and the breeder doesn't have a website as they only breed very occasionally 

The breeder and I spent a lot of time on the phone getting to know each other, she wanted to be sure I could handle a driven ISDS dog, I wanted to know about their dogs. There was nothing hidden, when we went and got him we met the parents, had dinner with the family. One of her concerns was not being able to take him back, as like any good breeder they want the dogs back if doesn't work out so they can rehome them well. 

I am not a fan of sports bred dogs, I have friends with them and I find they are missing the chill gene! My supposedly high drive ISDS dog is the best pet I could have asked for, but get a toy out and go play agility he comes to life, he is very thoughtful around sheep as well.

On 9/19/2019 at 1:58 PM, CptJack said:

 A  NADAC switch is   essentially a OMD tandem turn.    Or,rather, a tandem turn is a kind of switch, I  guess.

 

I've used them on AKC style courses, but I definitely don't disagree international courses are  a whole 'nother ball game!    OneI know nothing about  and play  very little.  Independent  backsides sound  super  fun though!  Hard! But fun!

I started in NADAC, its not really a tandem turn, as its taught as a change of lead, I think what makes it so unique is that it is primarily used on the flat as a change of direction, I have watched NADAC masters use it well and always loved it. There were many things I hated about NADAC but I always loved the switch command. 

21 hours ago, CptJack said:

Thanks! The dog is happy  about the distance! 

I really like switches.  They confounded me for a while.   At this point they're my favorite thing, even with slower dogs who are closer. They just seem to  create a really nice, clean,   turn and side change. 

In my world of agility they don't have a lot of use, but on the wide open NADAC courses they work really well. It is something I would like in my tool box but my youngster has so many other critical skills to master that I don't think its going to happen, an independent backside is much more critical for us.