elementbcs

I am so excited that I just had to share! Some of you may know about my girl Cedar, and all the "issues" she has on stock. She has not been the easiest dog to train, especially since I don't know what the heck I'm doing most of the time! Of course, I do not help things at all... being a newbie and whatnot BUT... last Monday we had a breakthrough! Our first legit inside flank! After a week and a half off (I am in the depths of grading English 101 papers), I went out to Dianne (Deal)'s for a lesson. I spent some time getting Cedar to relax, slow down, and listen; mainly doing outruns and working on pace on the fetch. Easy stuff like that. Her outruns have really been improving in recent months. I am so proud of her. Towards the end, though, we worked on driving. That was going really well (I was having her drive the sheep in a big square around me, both directions), so I decided to try something different/brave/whatever. She was on my left, driving the sheep parallel to and a bit away from me. I walked behind her to the other side, and then gave her an quiet "away" command with her in front of me. Lo and behold, she took the flank, and went wide and soft in a beautiful inside flank! I had her drive the sheep a little closer to home and then quit. I know it's kind of small potatoes... but it's a big deal for us I'm pretty dang ecstatic! Thanks for letting me brag

Thanks I just love him.... and yes, I'm so thankful to have such a sweet, wonderful, talented puppy He's still my goofy boy, though... See the resemblance?

I was able to bring my (crappy) video camera out to Dianne's today and managed to get some decent footage of the Moss Man when she worked him He's only been in training for 5 days, but is doing pretty awesome. He's still a puppy in a lot of ways (just 10 months old), but he's so natural and biddable, he makes it look easy! Dianne told me that in a couple months, I'm going to have to pry him out of her hands I'm so excited!

For me, this thread hits particularly close to home, and I am (perhaps foolishly) compelled to post. First, a little background for those who don't know... I began showing dogs in AKC conformation when I was ten years old, starting with a Belgian Tervuren and ending with Brittanys. For years, I was completely wrapped up in the AKC world (I refuse to call it "ACK"... I have many good friends that are ethical, awesome people who love their dogs as DOGS first, not just because they are pretty, or some nonsense like that) and competed successfully, achieving national rankings, at the highest levels of conformation shows. I also dabbled a bit in performance events with my Brittanys, and got to see what a good working "field" dog was like by attending hunt tests and field trials. I have always had a great appreciation for seeing a dog do what it was bred to do, and well. Even competing in conformation, I knew that there were more important things to a dog than just having good structure, lots of coat, or whatever. I doubt that you could find more than a few (ethical) people in the AKC world that would dispute that. A few years ago, after three years of dreaming and research (and additional experience with BC rescue), I bought my first Border Collie from a rather well-known show/versatility breeder. Cedar is half ISDS working lines, and half British show lines. To tell you the truth, the working side of her pedigree appealed to me more as I have always preferred the look of the working Border Collie. I thought I could have it both ways.... a pretty dog that could work. (Un)fortunately, what I got was a dog that wasn't really bred for (or good at) either stockwork or conformation show stuff. Now, don't get me wrong, I love my girl... she is the most amazing dog I've ever had the pleasure to be around. We are so bonded that we can almost read each others thoughts. She is fabulous at obedience and agility, and is a wonderful pet. Most importantly, she has been my introduction to something that has become perhaps my biggest passion: stockwork. I have faith that she will end up being a “useful dog” on stock someday, but we have certainly gone through a lot. Granted, a lot of our problems are totally my (newbie) fault, but she is not the best, or most natural dog on sheep. I know that most of her reoccurring issues are genetic. She tends to be tight, reactive, slicey, and panics easily.... but she always tries to figure out what I want. There have been many times that I wanted to just give up because it didn't seem worth it to struggle this much over something that we may never be good at. It is interesting to look back and see how far we've come since we started, because it's pretty amazing. She is basically a different dog now than she was, and our relationship has completely changed for the better. My intentions with her were to do primarily performance stuff (agility and obedience, and I wanted to "try" herding, HAHA) and maybe do some showing on the side. I had done some research into the ABCA/AKC debate, and, I suppose understandably, originally sided pretty much with the AKC as the idea of a "versatile" dog appealed to me greatly. I honestly did not know any better; as far as I knew, AKC registered dogs were the best way to go. What I didn't 'get' at that time that I understand now, is that the working dogs do not need to be bred for conformation specifically, because in order to do their jobs well, they have to be functional both physically and mentally. Living proof of this is SO apparent that it's freaking maddening that I didn't get it before; the majority of working-bred dogs that I've been around are much more functionally built and sane than show-bred Border Collies. And they also are able to do what they've been bred to do for centuries. Anyways....when my girl was a little over a year old, I emailed her breeder and asked who in my area would be a good person to take her to see how she would do on sheep. I was curious to see what she'd do. Her breeder told me that Patrick (Shannahan) would be a good person to contact, and he led me to Dianne Deal. Five minutes into our first lesson and I was hooked... even though Cedar was kind of scary.... gripping and panicked (she was NOT like the “bounce bounce bark!” fluffballs...). I got to see several other (working line) dogs work that night, and thought that it was the most amazing and beautiful thing that I had ever seen. By my second lesson, I knew that I would never own another Border Collie that was not working bred. What I was seeing just felt “right” to me. Since it first caught my interest, I have completely immersed myself in the sport, and read everything that I could get my hands on. I have attended numerous lessons (several times a week) and trials (just to watch, so far) and tried to learn as much as I could about everything relating to sheepdogs. I also joined this board, but have felt too inexperienced to post much thus far. I should say that have learned SO much by reading these discussions, though. I must say that I do appreciate the honesty of a lot of the people on here. I do try to stay away from drama... my life is full of enough of it already! I learned pretty quickly that the working crowd is (pretty much) all opposed to anything to do with the AKC, and since my girl holds AKC papers, I try not to bring up her background. Thankfully, most people don't ask. I would hate to think that people would judge me and/or my dog based on where she came from. Yes, she has been called a “Barbie”-- to my face, no less. It should be all about the work, right? So far, everyone has been SO great at helping us get on our way. Even though I am still incredibly new and awkward at this “sheepdog thing,” I love this sport more than anything I have ever done with dogs. The amount of training, work, natural talent, partnership, and TRUST that goes into molding a great working dog is so amazing. I can't even eloquently put into words how great I think it is. I guess, basically, I am completely in awe of this breed, and the dedicated people that campaign for the “true” Border Collie. ... and now, my first working-line pup has just started training

Thanks I can't wait to work him again on Friday. Hopefully the hubby will come along and take pix/video

Just a small brag... I went out for a lesson with Dianne today, and finally got to work Moss myself! :dance: He really was beyond great. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, based on his breeding and all, but Man, I can't tell you how much fun it was to actually get in there with him and try him out. I'm so proud of my boy! I think that his only major issue will be dealing with ME and my dumbass-ish tendencies. I put him in a few situations/ "oh sh*t!" moments (got too far away from the sheep or some other stupid thing) that I thought would end badly, but I guess I really didn't need to worry because he picked up my slack pretty well. I'm pretty blown away. It's one thing to watch someone else work your puppy, it's a whole 'nother thing to be in there with him. We circled a little bit and them did some fetching in the big arena. He pushed on me a little bit but I think I did an all right job of backing him off. Probably not enough, though. Oh well, something to work on, right? He was rating himself really nicely, and Dianne says he's a natural outrunner. I know it's pretty "small potatoes" stuff, but to a newb like me, it was really fun. Moss is so relaxing to work because he's so natural and doesn't seem to have the tendency to get pushy, fast, or slicey like Cedar does. With him I was able to actually enjoy myself a bit. I think I must have been smiling the entire time I was out there Thanks for letting me share!

Yeah, the more I've been looking into it, it seems like Orijen might be my best bet to try, even though the price of it makes my eyes water. But it seems like she would be eating about half what she is eating right now (Diamond) so it might just about even out. I am just sick of her having soft stools (and occasional blowouts) and tummy issues. Her coat and condition are great on Diamond, however. The cost would be worth it to me to have her healthy and happy. She's my special lady

I am looking to switch my girl Cedar over to a different food as she has been having some digestive problems lately, and has always had trouble keeping weight on. I want something that will also be good for her skin/coat and joints. I found a new local store that carries a couple really good brands of food, including Orijen, Instinct, Innova, Evo, Acana, Taste of the Wild, and Dog Lover’s Gold. I think I've narrowed it down to EVO or Taste of the Wild... in your experience, which of these have worked the best for you? Or should I also consider those other brands? I've heard good things about Orijen as well. I am leaning more towards Taste of the Wild at this point... is it a good food/worth the price?

Well.... I have recently come into possession of a rescue dog. To make a long story short, I found my first Border Collie, "Marley" (whom I rescued from the shelter several years back and then ended up placing in a new home two years ago) advertised for adoption on Craigslist. His former owner hadn't made any effort to contact me which made me sad, but she did agree to let me take him back. Soooo...... she dropped him off tonight. And he is FAT!!! Aside from green beans and exercise, any other tips for helping him to slim down? Thanks!

LMAO.... "my" Moss is almost 4 months old and 26 lbs. But he's kind of a chunky monkey... big boned, not fat :-P

Regarding crossing Dalmatians with Pointers, they have actually done this already. The "Dalmatian Backcross Project" was begun in 1973, and is supported by the Dalmatian Club of America. http://www.luadalmatians.com/

I'll be there as well.

No, it's not an arena trial. However, at this trial in Novice they allow for an assisted outrun, it's just points off. So you can leave the post and help your dog.

My favorite so far.... and also the one Dianne "picked" for me when they were born... Like I told a friend, I just have a *feeling*. Weird, I know, but I usually am right about these things...hmm. And yes, "Moss" is still my name of choice. Don't you think he looks like a Moss? :-P

No, they should all be roughs, since both of the parents are rough coats. I think it's mostly the lighting that makes them look that way. Plus they are only 2 days old. And yeah, guinea pig was my first thought, too

Maybe this is in the wrong spot, but here are some photos I took today of the Peg x Riggs babies, one of which will hopefully be coming home with me around Valentine's Day... The whole gang: Look at the cuteness! "My" boy (I have a good feeling about him)

oh my gosh.... my thoughts are with you. has your vet considered distemper? my friend had a dog with similar symptoms that eventually was diagnosed with distemper...

The weather was too bad for me to go out today (sigh, more snow!) but I'm going to try my darndest to get out there tomorrow!

The puppies were born at 2 AM last night!!! There are 4 boys, 3 girls, I'm going to see them tomorrow and hopefully get some pictures...

63 views and no responses? lol

Well.... I suppose I'm jumping the gun, but I'm going to be adding a new puppy to the "gang" in late february 2009......... I am planning on getting a male pup from Patrick Shannahan/Dianne Deal's Riggs x Peg litter.... and I am SO excited! Here are links to Riggs and Peg's pages from Dianne's website (that I made for her): http://www.diannedeal.com/riggsped.html http://www.diannedeal.com/pegped.html Anyways..... I am SO excited to get my first well-bred working puppy!!!!!! We are planning on calling him "Moss," but I want to meet him first before I decide totally on a name

There are some really good posts here with a lot of excellent information... I am looking forward to watching this thread develop further...

When will he be "bad enough?" When he bites someone else? Bites you in the face? An aggressive dog is nothing to take lightly...

I am new to this board, and to Border Collies, but not to dogs. I have been working with and training dogs for most of my life, both purebred and mixed breeds. I have bought dogs from breeders and have had several rescues as well. I have been around dogs with a wide variety of temperaments and quirks, and have been able to responsibly deal with them. I love dogs, no matter where they came from. But there are some things that I just will not do. The one thing that I will not tolerate from any dog is unprovoked human aggression, and here is why: Working at my local animal shelter taught me that for every human aggressive dog there is, there are 50 more that are not aggressive that need homes. Call me heartless, but I would rather put my time into a dog that is more likely to be adopted/would fit into a wider variety of homes than one that tries to take my face off. I am one of the biggest dog lovers you will ever meet, but I only have so much time. That being said, I have a Boston Terrier (spayed female) that is afraid of small children and will bite when she feels nervous or cornered. I have worked very hard at rehabilitating her and she is doing much better but I would never trust her 100% around little kids. But I manage it by not ever putting her in that situation. She has never actually bitten anyone because I am careful with her. But if she does bite someone, I will most likely have her PTS. Sure, it's sad, but having a dog like this is a liability. However, I think that fear aggression and dominant aggression are two very different things, and have to be managed very differently. In regards to Ghost's situation, I feel bad for both Autumn and the dog. The situation frankly sucks. First off, I think all this talk about his pedigree and breeding is immaterial. Now is not the time to bring up all this crap about Ghost that has already been touched on in other threads. It does nothing to help her solve the problem she came on the board to ask. We don't know everything that has gone on to contribute to the bite, and won't ever really know, because none of us were there. However, it seems like Ghost is a very dominant dog that learned he could overpower his owner. That alone makes him extremely dangerous, not only to Autumn herself and her family, but to all people right now. He has no respect for people and thinks he can do whatever he wants, including bite. It's not fair to the dog to keep him crated 24/7, and it's also not fair for Autumn to live in fear of her own dog. So, what to do? If Autumn does not want to keep Ghost, the only responsible thing to do is to have him PTS. He does not need to go on to be someone else's problem. There are enough dogs in rescue already that need homes. This is the reason most rescue organizations will not take known biters. If she does want to keep him... I agree that he should be neutered, ASAP. This is not a dog that should be shown or bred for sure. Definitely not a trait you want to promote or pass on. Taking him off of "high value" raw food would be a good thing to do, but it definitely will not fix the problem. Autumn, you said that you stopped feeding him in his crate because he acted aggressively.... well, he won that battle didn't he? I would go right back to feeding him in his crate (if you need to, isolate him in a room by himself--NOT your bedroom--while he eats) and leaving him in the crate until he calms down and finishes his food. I would also start making him work for every bit of praise he gets, this is called "Nothing In Life Is Free" or NILIF. The basic philosophy of this is that the dominant dog learns that the "top dog" position is not available to him, only to the trainer/handler/owner, and that his life is far easier if he doesn't constantly push for that position. To start off, never give him attention when he asks for it, only when YOU want to. If he bumps your hand for a pet, take your hand away and ignore him. Don't push him away (that gives him attention) or say "no" or anything. Just completely ignore him. If you give in, you are telling him that he is higher up in the pack hierarchy than you. Little things like making him do a command before you give him a treat, not letting him jump on you, making him sit before jumping in the car, and not letting him pull on the leash on a walk will all help contribute to a more respectful dog. Also, never let him jump on your bed or furniture, and if he sleeps in your bedroom, move his crate somewhere else. And never let him eat food off your plate. You can still give him affection, but make sure that is is YOU that initiates it, not him. If you want to play ball, bring the ball to him and throw it, don't throw it if he brings it to you demanding you play with him. Remember, he is just a dog-- YOU call the shots. On a final note...Autumn, if you want to keep Ghost I would HIGHLY suggest going to see an animal behaviorist. This will only cost about the same as one or two show entry fees and will make things much easier and less scary for you. People on message boards can only respond to the information you give us, but a trainer can see things firsthand that maybe you don't even notice you're doing.