Debbie Meier

Mark, all that depends on the individual breeder and needs to be assessed individually vs. using one wide brush to paint all the same. Karen brings up a sire list, compare those standing males where some flock to them to breed, if each breed 10 similarly bred females from 10 different owners then repeat that for a few years and then again with a different male it could actually result in way less diversity then the HVB's simply because more of the offspring from those individual breeders will go on to be used in the next generation if it's found that few of the the HVB's dogs produced are used for the next generation. Lots of things to consider, many variables, no two breeders think alike nor breed alike, that fact alone increases diversity.

If only it was JUST ivermectin.... Anyway, with the Mdr1 defect having a different expression then the other defects that we currently have testing for with the odds of having more tests developed in the future that would likely have similar expression, seems that this would be the best time to start educating breeders on more then simple recessive defects so that they can make better decisions in the future as more tests are developed. I recall the same confusion when the test was released for HYPP in quarter horses, people didn't understand that N/n's would also be prone to exhibiting the defect only understanding simple recessive. Seems that this falls into the "Education" category and should be looked as a opportunity to better educate for the future, unless DNA testing as we know it is some how going to debunked and fall off to the wayside as a means of defect testing.

I think there may be a legal way for renedered meat to end up in the dog food supply, via meals. Rendered meats could likely would have euthanized animals mixed in, horses and cattle. FDA has a old write up along with info on investigations in the past https://www.fda.gov/AboutFDA/CentersOffices/OfficeofFoods/CVM/CVMFOIAElectronicReadingRoom/ucm129131.htm

Seeing a few dogs lately being sold for $15,000 to $20,000 privately, all work cattle, not far fetched to have them reach $30,000 at a auction with the bidding competition.

Most any time legislation is presented that specifically names AKC folks go off the deep end assuming that AKC was behind it when it may actually be furthest from the truth and a simple case of who ever wrote the legislation simply was unaware of the many different registries and thought that AKC was where all responsible breeders registered their dogs. I would say the vast majority of the general public have never heard of ABCA and recite the same thing they have been told for years, that any registry other the AKC is a junk alternative puppy mill registry, simply not knowing that there are some very creditable registries aside from AKC.

None listed would default to AKC only until a list is generated including others. Have to file for a business permit in order to breed, they can approve or decline your registry at that time also.

Never said topper, talking about which would be better suited to be sent out as pets, yes can tell, especially after working with a specific line for 10 years plus and over 3-4 generations. How great a individual will be, that's a different story, though once again, after working with a specific line for a long time a breeder may be able to spot ones that are "special" at only 5-6 weeks old. Anyway you can tell based on past experience which your better off letting go and what type of owner / home they would be better suited for.

Careful with that GentleLake, at times we can tell if the pup has what we are looking for at 8-10 weeks or so, which is directly related to if the BREEDER feels that it will be a good working dog or likely suited for the work that the buyer is expecting the dog to eventually carry out. And that's NOT a alternative fact.

I was consulting someone last night who was in a blind panic, her dog was screaming, first pup not coming, presentation was wrong stuck. If your not comfortable reaching in and manipulating the pup to a deliverable position not much choice but to run to the vet. She got to the vet, vet clinic put her in a room but didn't immediately assist. Took other ER clients first. Pup finally delivered in the clinic with only owner present, owner out of frustration packed up her dog and new pup and left. Next puppy born dead, happens when the one ahead of it was stuck. Delivered 3rd alive. Maybe a C-section would have saved the 2nd pup, maybe instead just cost the owner a couple thousand dollars and then fears that the bitch won't make it. Many vet clinics are not reproduction specialist, some have never delivered puppies. Important to find a good vet before ever thinking about breeding that is both knowledgeable and experienced when it comes to whelping. Be certain you can handle death, with life comes death. Sometimes in the form of new born puppies, some times the bitch doesn't make it.

Welcome to the boards. I just wanted to take a moment to offer some advise, think very hard before breeding your pride and joy, there is a health risk involved that many do not consider when they decide that they are going to breed their favorite dog. Health risk to her and also to the pups in addition to the long term responsibility to puppies produced. I would strongly suggest buying a pup when your ready, just like you did in order to get the dog that you love so much considering that another breeder produced her, odds of getting another like her would be from the breeder that produced her or uses similar selection as opposed to you trying to produce more by breeding her. There is more to producing quality pups then putting two dogs that you like together and letting them have pups. Anyway it is heartbreaking to talk to someone who bred their favorite dog and ended up losing her or the pups. They end up regretting the decision to ever breed in the first place. Decisions to breed should never be taken lightly. Do lots of research before breeding and take the time to become a expert with regard to breeding, selection, puppy care & rearing in addition to purpose for which your wanting to breed.

Heartful, in order for your dogs to receive registration with ABCA you have to be the breeder (bitch owner) or the bitch owner has to submit the application to ABCA. Having a dog out of two abca registered parents won't get you ABCA papers. If your dogs had ISDS papers, then you could get ABCA papers on them without the bitch owner doing anything.

they didn't lie, he was registerable, just not with ABCA. If you had wanted a ABCA registered pup, that's when you should have walked away. Many that are breeding pet / companion dogs don't really see much value in having dogs registered with ABCA, especially if they are breeding dogs that didn't have papers when they got them, any registry will do. With regard to the roundworms, if your not going to put him on a monthly dewormer I would plan on deworming him every two weeks for the next month or so. Takes that to break the cycle, the dewormer only kills the worms in his intestine, not those that are still migrating or are in egg form that were ingested. Deworming him every 2 weeks for a bit should get him cleaned back up other wise your likely to get another positive fecal in a month or so. You can pick up SafeGuard goat wormer at the farm store, same stuff as the liquid Panacur. About $19 for 125 ml, same dosage as liquid Panacur too.

Well, there are some situations where you have to switch dewormers because the worms have developed resistance. Also, many, including vets will use SafeGuard/Panacur and only have the owner give it one day, well one day won't cut it, needs to be given three days in a row. As far as the tape worm, that is covered by a different dewormer then the conventional ones, a 5 month old pup could have picked up at any point, not just at the breeders. With our own pups, we deworm every two weeks from the age of 2 weeks old on through 16 weeks of age and then they go to once a month, so having been dewormed a few times since getting the pup wouldn't be unusual. Many environments have a good population of roundworm eggs, so pup can get reinfected at any point. I won't say that you were scammed unless the breeder has stated that the dog was going to be ABCA now you find that the dog is not. If no one inquired on the registry at time of purchase, well then that's not being scammed either. I doubt that a test will help you determine if the dog is actually a border collie since border collies do not trace back to the same few dogs, the breed is made up of different breeds over the years.

I was going to say that the cattledog finals rules have a "in addition to" clause, so the ABCA membership requirement applies but Carol better clarified. Thanks Carol!!!

I don't know of anyone that has run with a non abca registered dog that has gone on to get a ROM on their dog. So no, not likely.

we see them from time to time but not often. The most competitive are the Kelpies and the ones with cattlemaster in them from out of Oklahoma. Their owners just call them "unregistered dogs" now, high percentage border collie and most have papers on them from the Working Cow Dog Assoc. http://www.workingcowdog.com/ No, non registered does not get a ROM regardless of how well it competes, the owner would still need to go through the application process and meet what ever requirements the board of directors impose.

There are two different cash purses, one from the USBCHA and then the 2nd from the ABCA. You get USBCHA regardless.

I have not asked either of the two handlers that I know of that run kelpies that have placed high enough to be in the ABCA money to see if they received any, I would suspect they did. The secretary of ABCA would be who you would ask on that. Larry Painter won, reserve champion nursery in 2014 year with his kelpie. http://americanbordercollie.org/ In past we have had kelpies, aussies and a cattlemaster cross and yes, a unregistered rescue dog. The paragraph you found about the other breeds is one I wrote. No, the non registered did not automatically get a ROM, the owner would still need to go through the application process. She did place in the top 20 one year.

Mark, this is where the confusion has come in with regard to ABCA Membership to compete in the cattledog finals, see number 4 of 2016 entry form http://usbcha.com/assoc/forms/national_cattle_entry_form_2016.pdf

Probably quite a few, not near as many as children since the rate of dogs and number of dogs traveling in cars on a regular bases is way lower then children, but the rate of those dying when factoring in all the variations may actually be higher. I personally know of someone who lost more then one traveling to a trial during a real bad heat spell one summer in June, they were crated in the topper of a truck same as they were going to any other trial, the person thought there was enough ventilation, found out that there wasn't.

The flanking for a couple of minutes comes in handy when you have a dog that anticipates being stopped and tends to lurch in a bit and also gets hung up on going to the stock instead freely flanking or sticks in draws. When we bought our young dog from Pete out in South Dakota he showed us that little trick, though not for that length of time, said he did it when the dog stopped flanking freely on command. Many of our dogs, descending from his lines, need that, otherwise you find yourself constantly recommanding them as they fight you to stop and take the livestock some place or stick where they feel a draw is. I have dogs from other lines that I need to do the opposite with due to them always thinking flank.

I use the liquid too, get double strength banana flavored from Avenue Vet here in Iowa, only need to give 1 cc / 8 lbs. Only $55 for 500 ml which would be comparable to the 1000 ml bottle dose wise, that sells for around $120. I use it on the sheep too.

This is from Dr. Fosters and Smith website, give entire packet, 3 days in a row. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13555

I was just chatting with someone this morning who ordered 2 tests, I have 1 ordered, there is the question about how accurate those other tests will be and would they be accepted by others, example, ISDS only accepts Optigens CEA results. Would ABCA accept the results to denote them on the papers in the case of CEA? I would imagine they will be perfectly fine, but it is a question that comes up but seems that many are not asking or afraid to ask.

Seems to me that ABCA's statement was based on the request of the membership so naturally would be after the fact.