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Tea

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Everything posted by Tea

  1. well said, Julie and Everyone. It is interesting to ask that about working cattle. I will only speak from my own experience. It is best on unfenced mountainous country to have a quiet, powerful dog who when he/she bites, bites hard and in the correct place. then allows cattle to move off when they turn and go the correct way. Cattle then move gently, nobody gets hot and takes off at a run creating a big problem when the cow vanishes into a canyon and the herd scatters. and that dog when i send him at distance i can trust will be diplomatic. however there are some situations where the FOG (Fear Of God) Must be established....then you might need a Tickman. then the stop or diplomacy might be coming from you, as the dog might wish to push more when he needs to release. so you tell him stand or steady, where the first dog will do this on his own. once my cattle are dog broke a good sheepdog can move them as long as there are maybe no bitty calves, or bulls with attitude. but every now and then i need tick to teach an onery bull he must move as i wish, or run off some cattle that have crossed into my land. but he is best used on horseback and within eye, ear shot.
  2. it is memorial day, and my brother just left. this day means something, but it makes me sad too. So this question kinda takes my mind off it. So I shall write of my own experiences and thoughts. First it is helpful if folks define what is meant by work. This term is used often and without definition it can lead to confusion. my work right now consists of gathering in corrals to put out on hill, and regathering- only if necessary at dusk. also we are shearing right now. which requires a dog to turn himself off and rest in shade when not needed. my cattle work is just putting out in morning and gathering at dusk, feed is lush and thick so my work is not hard or all day now. in fall this will change. I am a full time rancher. in my own dogs, the fizzy sort does wear out quicker but they may learn to conserve by the hours of the work day and a bit of age. A tense dog that hold their mouth closed will not be able to pant well to dissipate heat. I don't breed those. i have a couple slick haired that are great in heat and a couple that are not. i have a couple long haired that are good in heat and a couple that are not. If they are not good in heat I don't breed them. my best dogs on hot days seem to know just how much energy to expend. they do not flop back and forth but move stock by line power. they pant with mouths well open, and they have big mouths and large tongues. they use shade, water and rest when they can without me saying anything. and this is bred in. the flop i can control, but on a hard day where we are out for hours i cannot see the dog. if a dog wears out i would be forced to carry him home on my horse. so any dog at risk of this i do not use for that work, and i do not breed from. my best dogs on hot days also have hard, tough, feet. because in dry country on rocks if you have a days work soft feet won't do. I have a dog that must move stock by movement rather than walk in power and that beauty of beauties- presence- this dog works a lot harder than my other dogs that have power and presence. so that first one can over heat quicker. calm, power, big tongues, tough feet. (BtW I am outcrossing right now. ) now lets also at some point talk about cold.
  3. soun ds really good. having dog broke sheep/calves is really critical.
  4. listen to sheepdogging geezer.
  5. Tea

    Black Jack

    i am sorry, hugs
  6. darling, whatever she is. both are very cute.
  7. Denice, thank you, really a great read. And the thing about people, really true. Thank you.
  8. Denice is most likely the better person to ask, but I'll say, It Depends. I have some young dogs out of my own that I am starting and two went to dog broke corriente calves after three goes on sheep, in round pen. Two went to a dog broke flock of 50 or 60 training sheep out in fields with older dog to hold edges. Two needed to stay in round pen to learn some basic manners on very dogged sheep. But since I am breeding for my work I did some testing on them too before this. I feel that a young good dog that is free moving but will come in when needed and stay off when needed is pretty easy to train. But this is breeding. It is bred in. The feisty little devils you might need to teach to stay out and stop so they don't end up causing a ginormous wreck. but these might be the best dogs for my work in the mountains on cattle, if they also develop feel and diplomacy. some dogs might need to be encouraged and not feel pressure from fences so they go outside and learn to keep moving and it is great they become better because they are encouraged by this with trained dog to hold edges.. as soon as a young dog will stop and go to balance i may take him/her out to do simple chores. move ewes out of corrals, little gather close in. but i will have a trained dog with me. but here is what i have found- the thin line we walk between a dog having feel, having power, having presence, willingness to come in and grip in a good way and let go and then allow stock to move off is indeed an interesting thin line. I have a very tough cow dog- but at distance he will revert to type, so you better remember that when working him- tho he has developed feel, learned i guess that he can create fights which make his job out here in the mts much harder. I have another that can gather at a great distance but if one bull sneezes at him in the brush he might not be able to move him. And I have Joe and Jake who are the backbone of my work- they were easy-and frankly not because I know anything- but Jake was a lucky nick- and Joe bred by a 30 year old ranching breeding program. but still the tough dog i need sometimes. so to simplify with jake and joe yes they were able to go out to the work, for tough old tick no. for my sweet guy- no for different reasons. bud was very experienced
  9. when i was young a woman could not compete on a stallion. i remember asking my old pop about this- his reply- hum, odd...dunno why, must be a rule for those guys, not us and ours.' thxs Jeane
  10. I talked to Bud and his wife several times years ago, on the phone. They clarified many things that helped me in my work. They were generous and practical. He made many dogs useful by just doing the work. And I got a tape of Bud sorting, Elk (Farm raised elk btw). By himself no dog. His stock sense was really focused, he noticed tiny things that helped him. I believe I saw him gather cattle when I was a child in Northern Calif. But I could be wrong.He was hired to gather and such in tough situations. In my own work Bud's advice has paid off. His family is continuing his stock work classes and his wife sells his tapes.
  11. i am so sorry. he looks like a real sweetheart. no one can really advise you but him. i have had to put down my last remaining sled dogs, it isn't easy. for them i say to myself, are they eating and drinking? are they in pain? do they want to go out and lay in the sunshine and watch the young dogs? it is these questions that for me, answer if we are getting close.
  12. truth! i have experienced both tight and wide, one thing a certain scot told me is if you widen a dog that naturally would run wider you can screw him/her up. those dogs let the hills teach. you use the hills to teach the shape. it can also be used to open up a tight running dog. i have found this to be true.
  13. lol, hard to call them in if you cannot see them!
  14. i agree with too wide. in my own work in the mountains i have found any dog who does not give thought on how the outrun should progress in unfenced and steep terrain is going to add alot of territory in the outrun, wasting energy, and possibly losing stock. a thoughtful outrun the dog will use the hill wisely saving himself or herself then widen out at the proper time and distance without startling stock. thanks for your wise insight.
  15. Yes, I like your post too. Because some of my 'deal breaker' dogs are here with me still. Because they chose me and I honor that. If I find the perfect home for them, I might let them go if they are younger. And they still work....but often they have specific jobs that are suited to them. But I do not breed them.
  16. aw, thanks, Sal, Mac the Knife brother of Jake the Rake, son of Sweep the Broom. old man still my right arm gathering.
  17. I like unusual names Like Blood Sucking Fly Man and I have a filly named Stabby Hasquvarna
  18. well, actually, i am ranching fulltime for a living. this was too far away so iwould be away too long and they couldn 't make my day rate which i make dogbreaking cows, or gathering here. which is the extra work i do . but sounded interesting
  19. yes, i was asked about doing this in BC
  20. That is one of my good bitches. I would not consider her overly courageous- she is brave- there is this- The corriente are wise and if a dog is powerful but diplomatic they move very easily. However if a dog is weak he will be CHASED off and I mean chased. They know as all cattle kinda do. That being said, that bull, when older, took a stand near a fence where some young heifers were standing and I mean Took A Stand. (Read Between the Lines- Took a Stand next to a fenceline.) I moved him with the toughest dog I have, Blood Sucking Fly Man who, like the Marines, is sent in when there is not another way. Tho, Tick (BSFM) Had to be Trained to be diplomatic because if you get something pissed it is harder to move. And since these cattle know how to fight, best to work with them, ya know? That time there was no other way, other than rope and drag. I had recently broken my right wrist, Pete was in Town. of course- Horses for Courses
  21. thank you, we like them. they will ring up and fight predators and are well armed the below is trout with one of the young bulls
  22. i prefer corriente cattle here where i am. I had a big herd of spanish goats. Their maaing brought every predator. Range ewes have done well, but corriente are the best.
  23. Smalahunder- Yeah, I am just sayin' not really in reply to you. Sue, managed, yep..... Bill, I have done pretty much everything else, or my boss had, but not ski slopes.
  24. I did brush control in some pretty weird areas. With a lot- and I mean- A lot of goats. These areas were sensitive to having goats get out- such as military bases and freeway embankments. My best use of my dogs was loading, gathering and unloading. I used an e-net to fence- i got miles of the stuff. just a note- it works very well. no quad for me ever- horse.....only now i do not do brush control work, only work in the mts with pretty tough cattle and the range sheep. the goat work paid very well but it was the hardest work i have ever done.
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