JaderBug

I've seen a genetic tree somewhere once upon a time that showed the split in the Border Collie along with some other breeds- does anyone have a link to that? I've been looking for it without any luck

Chick-N-Picker - the two separate 'lines' of Border Collies have been bred drastically differently. Working bred Border Collies have been bred exclusively for working ability for forever, whereas the bench show "Border Collies" have been bred for how they look and not how they perform. The difference here is that working Border Collies are a breed because of what they can DO and never for what they look like. Therefore working Border Collies come in a huge variety of appearances because no one cared what they look like as long as they can do the work. They're bred for a working standard. The show lines are cookie cutter and are bred to a visual standard with no accountability for work, so they all look generally the same and are quite incapable when it comes to true stock work.

I haven't had much opportunity to photograph cattledog trials but I'm planning to make more of an effort of it in 2017. Definitely need the practice but I don't really attend cattle trials since I don't compete in them. There are quite a few in Iowa and I'm hoping to go spectate/shoot at more of them next year!

Apologies if this goes against the rules, feel free to remove. Just finished putting together a 2017 calendar for working Border Collies from photos of mine at trials over the last couple years, thought I'd share here. Email me at jaderbugphotography@gmail.com if interested in purchasing! Offering a wire bound and a staple bound. Really excited about these, been wanting to do this for years and I'm thrilled with how well they turned out :-)

Is this what's being considered a working Beardie? (source- this isn't the one from the trial) Guess I figured dogs like this were more or less a Border Collie with a throwback coat, but if this is considered a 'Bearded Collie' I can certainly see them as nice working dogs. A far cry from what's called a Bearded Collie here in the US.

Running in the Novice class... quite frankly, it was sad. Embarrassing almost. This dog, being handled by an AKC judge, was taken to the post, taken off the leash, and immediately turned tail and went running probably 100 yards in the total opposite direction of the set out to go find mom. The handler marched up, got the dog, took him back to the post, and had to entice the dog numerous times to go out, go out, go out farther. He eventually found the sheep (I guess?) but it was clear at the post that this poor dog had absolutely no clue why he was there. This was clearly out of his element and totally different from anything he'd ever done. The sheep lifted off the dog and went running hell bent for leather back to the exhaust, and just happened to go through the fetch gates. Dog had absolutely nothing to do with it, and I hear the owner later boasting that the dog made the fetch panels. Heard several people commenting that they have seen nice working Beardies and that there are some very nice ones overseas that don't look like running mops. Anyone ever seen any? Know of any videos of true working Beardies?

I had a very bad experience good learning experience with this breeder... stay away. Far, far away.

Starting to collect tidbits for building a farm to be ready for whenever we do finally take the plunge and thought I'd ask about experience and preferences. What aspects about your farm/livestock/dog management do you love? Hate? Any tools, fixtures, hardware, products, designs, etc. that you particularly like? How about the layout/funcitonality of your farm- any components (i.e. a race, chute, pens, yards) that you have/don't have that you'd recommend?

It's been a couple years since I saw a litter of them, but they didn't really broadcast it. Just listed them on whatever puppy-sale website (another strike IMO) they use, there were definitely multiple litters though. Might have had something on Facebook about them at one time. Ask them. EDIT: Here you go.

Milliron has bred/breeds Border-Doodles. 'Nuff said.

Thanks all for the many comments, definitely some interesting discussion here. Should add though that I didn't necessarily mean confidence as the only factor as to mixing/sorting, but rather any trait that comes naturally to the dog, confidence was just one of the first things to come to mind. I really like Emily's question regarding littermates- do you look at littermates and/or relatives of the same or similar breeding when making decisions about breeding your own? Is it to be assumed that if a relative exhibits something either desirable or undesirable, the genes for those traits are within your dog as well?

Have been pondering the heritability of different traits desirable in a working dog- say you have a dog that is lacking confidence but is very talented otherwise. Obviously, you'd like to find a match that is perhaps a very confident dog to balance out or improve on the other dog. But, what is the heritability of something like that? I realize it's all a crap-shoot, but in your experience, do the resulting pups end up as a mix, where the working traits kind of meet in the middle, or do they sort, where you'll have some pups exhibiting the particular traits of each parent and not the other? Does it depend on the trait?

Oh boy... put me on the spot! For starters, this is how I shot the ones I just posted: I put this together a while back, just some rules of thumb I use that I've kind of learned and picked up over the years: Tips for better dog photography Oh and having willing subjects helps, obedience works wonders for canine photography subjects Thanks, Emily!!

On different sheep she's generally pretty excited. We make it over to my trainer's fairly often, but since I have her sheep at my place, it's like working the same sheep. I've been working on getting out to different fields and different sheep. We'll be visiting another field/group of sheep tomorrow (she's been to just a couple times), next week we'll be going somewhere totally new to both of us. Most other available fields are at least an hour or more (mostly more) from us, so it's not always easy to work other places. Definitely need to put more emphasis on that though. Think I'll run out get some video in the morning (mosquitoes are eating us alive tonight) and try to get some video of Pepper driving, I'm never very good at explaining what's happening on text

Her stop at home has been pretty solid, but so far at trials she's either slow to stop or sees it as a suggestion... which I suppose would mean it's not REALLY that solid :-) When she's fetching to me and I am facing her, her pace is alright. She lies down quickly at home when I am facing her, but when she is driving away from me, she breaks into a lope and pushes right through the sheep, and is slow to lie down. I'll lie her down and get her back up, but I don't think it's registering that she doesn't need to be pushing that hard. I don't think she's thinking about what she's doing on the drive. My trainer always says "use the sheep" to show how wrong they are, but at a distance I'm not sure how to do that aside from letting them scatter so she can see what she's caused. (?) I'll definitely try walking backwards with the sheep, see if that helps.

What tools and techniques do you use to help a dog learn to control their speed and rate their stock/feel lateral pressure? I've been working with Pepper to get her to slow down while fetching/driving. She's very pushy and very fast, sends sheep at a lope (canter?) and causes them to fan out. I want to slow her down and help her realize that she doesn't need to move that fast as it disturbs the sheep, but I don't want to shut her down and risk losing that push either. Thoughts? Comments? Suggestions? Thanks!

I've had fun doing it! But starting to run out of ideas!!

I'll play! (since I've been mostly absent lately and have some fun new photos of my girls...) My oldest, Sasha, is almost 12 years old. We've had Border Collies my whole life, we brought Sasha and her littermate brother Rocko home when I was in high school. We lost Rocko last winter, but Sasha is still living at home with my parents. They were/are just farm dog pets, not working dogs or anything. Very little training except basic manners. Rocko on the left, Sasha on the right: Next is Jade. I brought Jade home when I was in college, she is 6 years old. Jade is my first Border Collie as an adult. She has some working dogs in her pedigree, but she's not specifically working bred. She gave me my 'first child' learning experiences- first dog in the house, first dog I formally trained, first dog I started herding with, and the first dog I subjected to all of my annoying photography demands. She's the one that got me started in working Border Collies, and is the namesake of my photography business, which she also is the foundation of. She's silly and I don't think there's anything more important to her than 'her' cat, her Jolly Ball, and sheep... I think in that order, too. I trial her occasionally in AHBA trials, but for the most part she stays at home when I trial and is my husband's couch buddy, and she loves that. Jade: Pepper came into the picture when I decided I wanted to get more serious about training and trialling working Border Collies. She is 3 years old this year and is teaching me a tremendous amount about training working dogs. She is keen as can be and extremely biddable, she wants nothing more in the world than to please me. We've been hitting a lot of USBCHA trials this year, so far just competing in Novice/Ranch courses, my goal is to be running in Pro-Novice in the trials in October after the Finals. Pepper: Last is the baby, Kess, who is not quite 9 months old. I wasn't actively looking for a dog, but when Kess' litter came along, it was kind of an opportunity I couldn't pass up. She's been on sheep just a couple times and is definitely showing a lot of interest, I can't wait to see what she has in store to teach me. She is an ornery little cuss, but lots of fun. I've been doing a photography project on her too, to document her first year of life with a photo every week. Kess: Group photos:

Thanks for all the suggestions! I'm probably counting my chickens before they hatch and getting way too excited but we're looking at a place right now with two acres with a house and a couple buildings and no pasture, no fencing- going to be a deal breaker if we can't acquire a couple more acres (hoping it's not a problem with the landowner). It's a blank slate, so I can really do anything I want with it fencing/pen-wise, which really excites me. Trying to remember all the different farms I've been to and think about what fencing/pen qualities I like and don't like, definitely a lot of fun to think about. So here's a couple more questions... First, if we were to acquire the place with the extra acres (which are currently planted in crop ground) this year, what would be the timeline for seeding the pasture (do you do it when the crops are out this fall? or wait til spring?) and at what point would it be usable? Second, what different aspects/elements should be considered? I'd like to host some AHBA trials (actually I'd love to host USBCHA but there's no way I can acquire enough land for that, at least not for a very very long time) so I've looked into some of those requirements. What other elements should I plan on putting in- round pen? Chute/alley/race? Other things I'm not thinking of?

Anyone have some good websites/books/resources for tips and suggestions for how to set up a livestock-based farm/operation? Multi-species set-ups? Like suggestions on gating, pens, pen set-up and arrangement, etc...?

This post is not getting enough recognition. These videos are evidence enough, there really doesn't need to be any more discussion than watching them. But since words and videos continue to fail... BCLover2000, everything you love about Border Collies exists because of working livestock. Their intelligence, speed, agility, stamina, desire to please, heart, etc. all exists because all of it was needed to create a superior working stock dog. You cannot achieve those traits by breeding for looks, or breeding for a special ability to jump a pole or run through a nylon tunnel because you're selecting for one or two traits, where herding ability engulfs and requires all of them. If you're not breeding for working ability, you're breeding away from what the breed is and you are losing some of those traits that make this breed great. If you're looking for a dog to do agility with, why not go to the source of what made these dogs capable of excelling at sports in the first place? Completely regardless of if you ever plan on putting the dog to stock. Also, as you breed away from working ability, you lose some of the stability that stock work requires. As you select for a couple of factors and ignore others, you'll get other traits that show up that aren't being kept in check anymore, i.e. psychotic sports bred dogs who can't function like a normal dog because they're wired to be wound up all the time. Border Collies are quirky enough- show and sports breeding only exacerbate the 'quirks' and take them to the extreme. It's a package deal- and if you're not getting the full package, you're getting cheated.

Congrats!! Such a great feeling :-)

I helped foster a pup a couple years ago that looks like him... my foster was a Brittany x Pointer (or so they said). Your pup looks like it has beagle in it to me... Foster:

That's so exciting! And such a great feeling too

I've never posted in this section of the boards... it's kind of surreal. And I'm doing it for two. Just this past Wednesday I lost my sweet old man, Rocko. For simplicity's sake, I'm just going to post the tribute I wrote on Facebook: "I remember, 11 years ago, when we had lost our dog Cody in the winter, Dad and I decided we couldn't wait until spring to bring another dog to the farm. Just our luck, Cody's breeder had a litter on the ground at the right age to bring home. He sent us some photos of the puppies. Sasha, the one with the good traditional Border Collie markings, she was the one for sure. But ACK! Look at that ugly bald-faced one! Why would anyone want one that looked like that?? Of course, when we got there, he won our hearts over, and since we couldn't decide between Rocko and Sasha, they both came home with us. I'm so thankful that I made it home last night to say goodbye. He started out the morning a little weak, but went rapidly downhill by the afternoon, it was his time. As I came into the garage, my handsome, sweet old man who was so weak I almost didn't recognize him, raised up enough to see me and the tip of his tail waggled just enough to say "I'm so glad you're here!" My best friend is a veterinarian and was kind enough to come for a home euthanasia, I can't express how thankful I am that we didn't have to take him away from everything he knew in his final moments. Rocko passed in my arms, no more pain, no more cold. We buried him next to my horse Bobbie (who passed away earlier this year), I'm sure they're having a great time together wherever they are. I pray Sasha can find balance without her brother, I hope she handles suddenly being a single dog alright. She looked a little confused last night as I put her in their kennel. "Dogs' lives are too short. Their only fault, really." - Agnes Sligh Turnbull Goodbye, buddy. I love you and I miss you!" Rocko on his 10th birthday: Earlier this year I also lost my old mare, Bobbie. She was also starting to lose weight and blood tests showed her kidneys were shutting down, she barely had an appetite and wasn't drinking any water. The time came, though, that I couldn't ignore the fact that she was continuing to go downhill, the decision was made. Her last few hours were spent heartily munching on a bucket of oats, drinking some water, and sunbathing. She was 31 years old, and had been one of my best companions for the last 14 years. She taught me everything I know about horses. Bobbie on her 30th birthday: These are the first two pets I've ever had to make the decision to send them to the bridge, breaks my heart thinking about both of them and I can't believe I've had to do this twice in one year. You want to believe they will get better and they still have several years left to be with you, but in the end I'm so glad I did right by them.