Rmlilley

OK everyone mea culpa, mea culpa. I got defensive as the first response I received really left a bad taste in my mouth and really was too strong given the desire to solve the problem constructively. I do agree with the unintended consequences comments but was probably too close to see that. We exercise in a 10-acre field that may have 3-4 soccer or softball games going on at any one time and this may be too distracting or tempting for her to resist. I like the comment listed below and thanks for your feedback guys! rushdoggie: In your shoes, I would stop playing ball in uncontrolled environments and go back to teaching a reliable release, rewarded with what she wants more than anything else, the next ball thrown. In the yard, not too far, keep the arousal level down. Reward with the second ball for any attempt at dropping it.

First off, my first post was slightly inaccurate as I was referring to when I first used the e-collar. After the first month, I never had to use the shock mode as she responded quite well to vibrate only. That being said . . . I have had BC's for almost 15 years now so this isn't my first experience. I actually did use the two ball trick for quite some time and that worked well. My actual first use of an e-collar was due to the fact that her being so immature, she would seek out everyone in sight like 700-800 yards away and try and play with them which made for some very embarrassing and dangerous moments in recreational sports games like other peoples soccer matches, etc. She has since learned to listen and not join in everyone's events. Please don't call it a "shock collar" when I actually use it as a "vibrate collar". That's not an electrical stimulation but a distinct variant that lets her know that we aren't playing keep away as. like I said earlier, she always drops it after one or two vibrates. Also, she has already brought it back or I am already where she is so there is no remote activation. But she reached a block point where she just doesn't bring balls all the way back but prefers me to come after her whereby she usually drops it. 99% of the time, one or two vibrates communicates to her that we aren't playing keep away . . . but it hasn't gotten any better, hence this post. Since she's learned the vibrate, I can't recall using the shock mode as I wouldn't actually want to hurt her, who would? I think she actually likes the keep away game as I can instantly tell when she's playing it as she runs watching me sideways over her shoulder. It might be simply that she's developed some hybrid of the two games and flip-flops back and forth between them.

Dearest Gentle, Thanks so very for trying and convicting me on such a small partial slice of information, so helpful. I did not say that the only reason I use a training collar was for release issues, but you obviously know much more than I ever will. The actual primary reason for the training collar is to keep her out of crowded areas playing sports games and away from busy places that have potentially dangerous access to traffic. A 35 on one of those collars is quite mild as I actually tested it on myself first and it's pretty darn gentle. Seriously, you might have a problem as you actually did not read my post accurately but instead, jumped to conclusions. Pretty typical knee jerk anonymous response from an on-line forum, feeling better about yourself now?

My 3-year-old BC is coming along in training and she is a monster ball chasing dog. Her "issue" is that she will not bring the ball back or release it easily. If there is anyone else on the field, she will run up to them and drop the ball right in front of them and wait until they throw it for her, for me, not so much. I use a Mini Educator if she doesn't release, giving her 3 vibrate warnings and then a low (35) pop if she still will not release. Sometimes if I don't have the Educator with me she will release upon the "drop it" command but not always. Another weird thing she does is release the ball in the worst location she can find: like the only hole under a downward sloping fence or hidden in ivy, it's almost like a game of keep away. She does like chasing balls as she would do it all day if I let her. Any thought on how I can work with her to return the ball and release it? I do praise her and pet her when she gets close but it's hit or miss.

Thank you all for your heartfelt responses. By and large I was surprised at the helpful responses with only a little bit of finger wagging. I think the three responders that said he was "an aussie" need reading glasses. 1sheepdoggal: The reason again, that I wasn't watching was that seven years of nothing bad earned him the right to be off-leash in an enclosed dog park. It's about 25 yards wide by 50 yards long so the guys can get away from your direct supervision easily. But good suggestion, I will watch much closer. Juliepoudrier: What exactly is "conformation-bred collies"? But I do think the run to the dog park observation being too exciting might hold some truth. On my own, (before I posted) I did start talking him on long no dog park walks. As to why not neutered? I am from the camp of don't fix what ain't broke. It has never been an issue until possibly, now. Bo Peep: Little flame but OK, He's been going there only since we moved in Feb '07. I don't know what he was fighting over. I now it was not toys, food or water. Again, this was the first time it happened, one second tails wagging next second loud barking/biting, no damage though. More like chest pounding. I think he just not taking any alpha warnings from other dogs and is responding in kind, again, in a micro-second. And yes, I will re-read the posted sign. He has non been to an obedience course as he has always listened and behaived. mbc1963: Right on, that's it exactly: "get them before they get me". firpwr52: Yes, that is what I was thinking of doing. Go there with a long line ready just in case. And no, we are going first thing in the morning. bcnewe2: Good comment, I already scheduled him for a Vet appointment this Thursday. Lenajo: Good comment about dogs not wanting to interact "with a constantly changing pack". I think you were right on the money with "They *aren't* going to put up with being bullied by socially challenged surbubia park mutts - hence scuffles". Wish me luck and I'll post back hopefully some good results. Thanks to all for your wisdom . . . . except the aussie comments of course.

Hello, newbie here. We have the sweetest most neurotic un-neutered male border collie. When I say neurotic I mean that he is totally fixated on my location and runs from window to window trying to find me when we are at home. He is strictly a suburbs dog, we don't live on a farm. We didn't even know what a Border Collie was until someone offered to sell the little puppy to us at a softball game seven years ago. I hope you can see the pictures as I included them so you could see that he looks like a long-haired BC, actually a little on the big side. Most people when they first see him say that they didn't realize BC's got that big. Everything was cool with his behavior until this last Saturday. We were at the local off-leash dog park and apparently he got into an alpha-dog one bark & growl session with another dog. The other owner so over-reacted that I was not able to verify 1) who started it and, 2) sex, etc of the other dog. Being polite, I immediately left the park blaming the other dog's owner of using his over-reaction offense as a defense? Since I have had no aggressive behavior problems with him before so I usually read a magazine or look around while at the dog park and don't watch his every move. Then the next day at the very same place he got into a knockdown/drag out fight with another un-neutered male and I had to smack on them with a rolled up newspaper to get them apart. The other dog's owner didn't seem to give a hoot about the fight. Someone else that saw what happened said that he was watching and the other dog definitely started the fight. So obviously an alarm bell goes off in my head: two fights two days in a row after seven years of nothing? The only other aggressive behavior I previously saw was when another "bad-tempered" dog attacked him as we walked in an open field behind our old house. The other owner came running apologizing about the bad behavior of his dog. I have to add that the coming and going the one mile each way to the dog park is with him basically "towing" me on my bike as he is attached to the kid trailer hitched to my bike. The reason for this is to give him some sheep-chasing type of exercise. We have to walk the first couple hundred yards with my bike's brakes on about half way otherwise he tries to pass me towing the kid trailer sideways in front of me because he gets so excited. He barks and yelps like a fool and tries to play bite my feet if we try to ride away without the walking (you try that on a bike at about 15MPH). Recently when we did start out riding at the start he crossed under my bike dumping us both on the ground, hence the initial walk to calm him to an acceptable level. I have noticed that since we moved here close to the dog park in Feb '07 he has become less playful with other dogs (if you count stomping his front legs down next to dogs that won't play or knocking them over like wayward sheep playing) and spends his time sniffing EVERYTHING and peeing on EVERYTHING. He is very kind to my two little daughters, tolerates our cats and only playfully chases the cats if then insist on running. We did get a new kitten on 09/10/07 and he may be a little jealous of all the attention my girls are lavishing on her. He is not one of those dogs that tried to mount other dogs. He even has a longstanding every-other week all day unsupervised play date with a fixed smaller female German Shepherd/mutt who will alpha-dog bark/nip him when he plays too roughly. He always backs off when she bark/nips him. I have never seen him try to mount her either. Sorry for the long-long story, here's the question: Is he 1) Normal, yet will not back down when another alpha-dog un-neutered male dog challenges him or, 2) Not normal and his behavior indicates that he needs to be neutered now or, 3)? Thanks for your help in advance and please no flaming as I am trying to do the right thing here and could utilize your experience.