JEL

I've been using Heartgard on my pup since he came home at 8 wks...he is celebrating his 4 mo old birthday today....no problems....

Hi Cathy, I've never heard of Adam Katz, but I do like the method...I learned it from a videotape on companion dog training called "Command Performance" - I apologize, the trainer's name escapes me at the moment...it is David something...but I do recall him specifically saying to use a flat buckle collar because if done correctly, the dog is going to give himself a bit of a flip, and while this tape doesn't shy away from an effective correction, he does warn against causing injury by using any of the training-type collars (choke, prong, halti, etc) and it is quite effective without the prong collar, I can promise! I really like the video...it is on loan to a friend right now...but he starts the dogs out on a buckle collar and a long line, and by the end of the 6 wk (8 wk?) he takes you right through on-leash manners to off leash control...all without any cookies or gimmicks, while building obedience and respect with positive, praise-based training backed by fair and consistent corrections. I highly recommend the tape for anyone looking for such a tool for general training... Janet

Just wanted to offer another idea, which personally worked for me with a dog that pulled me around for 4 yrs where no other method of either reward (for doing it right) or correction (for pulling) worked: Start off on a 6' leash with the dog on a flat buckle collar. Loop the leash in both hands so that the dog will start out with a little less than half the leash length looped down in front of him, and the rest of it looped in both of your hands, which should be plastered to your waist and stay there. Tell the dog "lets go" or whatever you choose to use to let the dog know you're off on a nice little leash walk. As he forges out ahead and begins to tighten up "his" end of the leash - - you drop the excess loop in your hands (holding onto the handle tightly with both hands, of course, and keeping them stationary at your waist)then execute an abrupt right about-turn, and walk off briskly in the opposite direction! Do not give the dog any verbal hint of what is about to happen...the combination of him taking off in one direction and you taking off in the other is going to give him a pretty good yank...so don't try to compound it with any excess arm motion on your part (and fyi, thats why he's on a buckle collar..you want to give him a bit of a surprise...not risk him getting hurt on a choke collar or head collar) As he races to catch up to your side, reel up the excess leash and position your hands to repeat the correction; while giving him a little verbal "welcome back" to your side. But..as he forges ahead in the new direction, be ready to repeat.... The whole point of the exercise is to allow the dog to see that YOU did not correct him. YOU simply chose to change direction and HE caused the unpleasantness by not paying close enough attention. The difference is that you are not yanking and pulling and giving verbal and physical corrections to the dog. I think that most dogs are canny enough to wear us down and train us to accept some level of their pulling, simply because we're not delivering an effective and consistent correction and following through completely until the problem is totally resolved. With this method, the dog does get an unpleasant correction..but instead of you yanking and hollering, all he sees is your back as you move off in a different direction, and when he catches up to you, you have only nice things to say to him...I can't explain really, but the dogs seem to "take responsibility" for the correction and pick up really quick on the fact that *mom* is an unpredictable creature and if they don't want to keep getting yanked off their feet, they best pay a little attention. (and fyi..this kind of attention is not the "watch me" obedience-type attention..what it does more, is make the dog "aware" of you...puts you in the picture...) All I can tell you is that I had that incorrigible leash puller for 4 yrs, and he "got it" in one lesson, and after a couple weeks of daily leash walks, he just plain stopped trying to pull on the leash....on the rare occasions, over the course of the next 11 yrs, when he would be in a public place and get all excited and "forget", I would simply start off with one or two quick "about-turns" and the rest of the day he would be faultless! Janet

Eileen, as a (former) Golden Retriever owner, I do find that interesting. I believe there is some merit, too...how else to explain purebred Golden Retrievers born with black hairs...or spots on the body. (it is in fact written into that breed's standard, that any noticable areas of black on the dog's body to be seriously faulted.) I can't explain it...but I know it happens for a fact. Janet

FYI - Interceptor is just as effective as Ivermectin in the treatment of demodectic mange, and safer....thought you'd like to know in case your vet does diagnose mange and you are discussing treatment options. Janet

one suggestion: bring a specimen in to your vet and have it tested. thats what I would do, if I had any doubt. janet

Interesting points from both the Bills... I'm not a proponent - but I guess I'd have to say I'm not against it. I guess (and since I'm not a breeder, I probably don't have a right to make an opinion..but what the heck - ?!?!?) I think it sounds like a valuable tool to have available...certainly better than the "accidental breeding" scenario where the breeder says, "well, the pups do kinda LOOK like so-and-so; he must be their pappy...." I'd rather pay an extra $100 or so on the puppy price for the DNA test, over the "look" test, if I was buying from that litter. [or maybe I just don't buy from that litter - ???] Maybe its something best left for occasional and last resort use, rather than something to rely on consistently...? Or is it something best avoided, even at the cost of the disappointment incurred when you have a planned breeding; and an "accident" occurs? Bill G: I've never watched CSI....am I missing something good? Better than Quincy? (anybody remember Jack Klugman as the intrepid Medical Examiner?) Janet

My only question is - to play devils advocate - is to ask...is this a bad thing? What if you took the time and trouble to breed to Joe Famous stud dog, and your female came home and accidently bred to your good ol' homeboy? Do you write it off and give away the pups of unknown parentage; or would you rather have the option of DNA'ing and being able to register? What if you were importing a bred bitch? If you were a breeder, and you bothered to go overseas and search for that special female whose bloodlines and working ability had you drooling, and before importing her - you had the opportunity to choose the stud dog she was bred to - what if there were two different but equally appealing stud dogs...being that she's leaving the country for good, wouldn't it be nice NOT to have to choose, but breed to both? And lastly, after hearing time and again what a crap shoot breeding can be, even when you're breeding 2 nice working dogs - sometimes the "mix" just isn't what you'd hoped for, and the pups just don't meet expectations - doesn't it almost make sense to breed to two different males? [bear with me...] lets say you breed to male #1 and have 6 pups, and the breeding was a disappointment to you; so next time you breed to male #2 and have 6 more pups, and you're much happier with this breeding. Well - you've produced and sent 12 puppies off into the world for the one dog that you were looking for. OTOH, you could breed to both males at once, have 6 puppies, and get the dog you wanted with only bringing half the "excess" into the world. Ok - I know its just not that black-and-white (!) but do you at least see where I'm going? Unless you sold the other 11 pups on spay/neuter contracts, and followed up to ensure compliance, you could unwittingly be contributing to future substandard breedings. (even assuming litter #2 was *perfect* and each and every pup was deemed outstanding and worthy of being bred - you'd still have 6 substandard pups from litter #1.) Anyway, all I'm getting at, is that just because alot of AKC-minded folk will no doubt use this as another marketing tool for selling puppies, doesn't make the concept - used for the right reasons - a bad idea...or does it? Janet

On the subject of e-collars, I don't believe in them in the hands of the general population...too much chance for abuse. That said, I think that the e-collar is just a tool; in the right hands - probably a valuable tool. Just like the subject of choke collars....its just a piece of equipment - it is how it is used that is useful...or cruel. Personally, I don't see how an e-collar would enhance the training of a working Border Collie; if anything, I could envision it inhibiting a dog from trusting itself to use its instincts and think on its own...but I don't know. Certainly field dog trainers have figured out how to use e-training and not lose a hunting dog's natural ability...but are the two comparable? I don't know.... I would suggest checking out www.tritronics.com. If you click on the link to their "friends and partners", one of them listed is the Lone Star Cattle Dog Futurity. You can click on that link and perhaps their website might have info or a contact you could talk to about e-training. (you might even find people knowledgable about your specific issues who have successfully worked through them without electronics) I don't pretend to know anything about Black Mouth Curs...but it doesn't sound like they are used for "herding" so much as hunting/locating - ? Anyway, if you are serious about pursuing e-training, all I can suggest is that you do your homework first, and find cattle dog people who use it successfully and solicit their help. It sounds like your dogs perform a valuable service to you, and I'm sure that you would not want to jump in and use the collar improperly and take the chance of making the problem worse...or losing the dog altogether as a working partner. Janet

yes...a friend of mine has a Border Collie that went in for spaying...thankfully they chose to do the bloodwork - it showed a previously undiscovered problem with her kidneys...she has since gone on to have lifelong kidney trouble, barely controlled with a strict prescription diet and I believe, medication. I guess, just to be devils advocate (and lawsuits aside) you need to ask yourself how YOU will feel if something happens, knowing YOU decided to skimp on the bloodwork. I can certainly see arguments both pro and con - from a personal standpoint, if I trusted my vet, I would follow his recommendation and opt for all reasonable precaution.... Janet

Pretty Is as Pretty Does....that said, its no crime to have a dog who is pleasing to the eye.... jmho... Janet p.s. I read this somewhere in connection with working Border Collies, and I've always liked it: A Dog that is striking and beautiful is not always good; But a dog that is Good is always Beautiful.

Charlie, its my understanding that you can greatly increase the risk of bloat by allowing the dog to exercise excessively after eating. the dog's belly is already full of food, and the increased panting adds air to help "blow up" the belly and the running contributes to the twisting, or torsion... and I'm sure that you already know bloat is an immediate, life-threatening emergency requiring veterinary intervention.. generally speaking, bloat is most common in large, deep chested breeds - some of which will bloat simply by eating too large of a meal - no exercise involved. running any dog excessively after eating (unless in case of an unforeseen need, in which case I'd say get the job done as quickly as possible and put the dog up) but otherwise, is asking for trouble. that said, I have fed my dog as much as 4 hrs before working, and had her throw up mostly undigested food after herding. I have since taken to feeding her her "main meal" at bedtime, so it has the longest time to digest, and I give her about 1/3 C kibble in the morning - mostly because she is jealous of my senior dog who has to have 2 meals a day...and she wants to eat, too! Just my thoughts... Janet

Bill F writes: >>The really top breeders know what the ABCA does for the breed -- genetic research, support of local promotional and educational effors, support of the national finals -- none of which the AKC will ever even consider doing.<< Me: far be it for me to defend the AKC when it comes to their conformational breed standards...but it wouldn't be fair to ignore their efforts in health research, legislation..heck, even their CGC program. they do cast at least some of their considerable wealth on waters that benefit all american dogs...even mutts. (and even if we narrow our focus to just Border Collies...we have benefited in some small way if we have ever flown a dog, or carry homeowners insurance, or care about CHD, CEA and a host of others. the AKC has contributed toward the good of all dogs in these areas and many more) I'm not an AKC-expert; but for anyone interested in "know(ing) thy enemy" - check out WWW.AKC.ORG to find out more... (kinda stinks to find out that something can be so rotten in one area; and have redeeming qualities in others...) Janet

Donna, your "1 cents" is definitely worth it! (and you don't have to explain your feelings to me on how you felt when you finished your U.D.....I was there, too! my first Border Collie finished her U.D. before her third birthday; she qualified at each and every trial we entered..in fact placed first or second for her first 3 legs of her title. and that was when there was no "Utility A and Utility B" differentiation..and we beat several OTCH pointed dogs on the way to our title. It is thrilling, and no one should take that wonderful feeling away...CONGRATULATIONS!!!!) I don't think anyone is arguing the competitiveness and fun that people have in the dog sports....the problem arises from Border Collies being bred for those sports; or strictly for conformation. This practice diminishes the breed and is what the true Border Collie lovers are so passionately fighting to protect. Unfortunately, the AKC's track record with every other breed, which others have already gone into in great depth, so I won't; but that record of demise of great breeds does not bode well for the chances of the AKC world to be able to preserve and improve the Border Collie breed [to say the least] they may make improvements in their "black and white show dogs" but that is not the Border Collie that we know and love today. The emphasis must remain on working in order to protect and improve the breed.... Oh - just to elaborate a little - we're lucky enough in my area to have several ASCA obed events to attend throughout the year to satisfy the craving for competition - lol! - and I believe that as the numbers of competitors has swelled, so has the overall quality of the competition! janet

Bill, I think the answer is mainly titles...and I don't necessarily mean it in a bad way because most of the people I know personally train and compete as their hobby - not as a means to supposedly increasing their dog's potential breeding value. The other issue is, of course, equipment - especially in agility. Not too many individuals have the money or space to have a complete set of equipment and the grounds to set a full course... The AKC isn't the only game in town anymore...though I'm sure in different parts of the country people may have more or less access to the other organizations...but I know here in the Northeast, the top agility organization is the USDAA - which allows all breeds and mixed breeds. We can also do obedience to our heart's content and compete in ASCA trials for titles - The UKC also has some presence here in the northeast. I think maybe the AKC is the biggest and most visible game in town...but for those who feel morally bound to avoid the AKC, there are alternatives. [and I'm willing to bet that if more people sought them out and supported the alternatives, that they would grow and become more frequent as their numbers swelled - in fact there is a big, multi-day ASCA event each Fall right here in MA that offers obedience, herding & agility for all breeds and conformation for Aussies - and they draw HUGE crowds of exhibitors [of all breeds] to their agility and obed..and to a lesser extent to the herding.] janet