denice

I find different people view words like hard, soft, handler sensitive, fast, to much eye... to mean different things to them than to me. What is hard or soft to one person may or may bot be to another. Watching dogs work it is easier to agree on the extremes than it is to define smaller differences. I interpret clappy as excessively sticky but I imagine there are some that would not. I would think if he is working with a dog that does not willingly flank then changing the direction and asking for many flanks is what he is talking about. Leaving the dog to go one direction and basically orbit the sheep would not be what I consider helpful. I would want the dog to give some room to the sheep and do small fast flanks. A dog that has lots of eye and does not move freely I could see keeping it moving one direction for a longer period of time, because it is the free movement it is lacking. I think it is really tough to write about training a working dog because what you do is so very dependent on feel and the dogs attitude. You can not interpret feel accurately without being there and so you do not know how to help the dog with the problem. I think of "hard" as being an attitude problem or one of distrust

Some animals - dogs and cats - can be cage aggressive. They bark and carry on inside a crate but do not act that way outside of it. Why that is could vary. Some feel threatened because there is no escape I think, some are territorial... I would try to have her come when you are home. See if he is ok with her while you are there in the house. Try him on a leash outside his crate and inside his crate. I would put the leash on him put him in his crate and bring him out with her standing there. Then put him back in and out then let her take him out. Since she has a leash you will be able to bring it out without a fuss. I would not make a big deal out of it, make it as matter of fact as possible. If he does something that needs a verbal correction I would still correct but again make it as simple as possible. Let him know there is nothing to be worried about but growling is not acceptable. You will have to judge his reaction and body language as you go to see if he is understanding and accepting things or more worried but that is where I would begin.

i dont understand the "watch sheep" command as a release? what are you releasing her from? what do you want her to do? I have a recall on my young dogs - honestly that is it. All the flanks and even stops are due to body language. I dont use names for flanks till later because I want the dogs learning how to work sheep not learning commands. I just keep moving and turning and helping the dog keep the sheep between us call off then send with ssss or sshhh and correct with ah or hey. If she pushes sheep past you back up and let her bring them back. If she is not paying attention and the sheep leave let them go and make her regather. Let her figure out the consequences of her actions from the sheep. But that means there has to be sheep that are honest and act like real sheep and not sheep that just wait on the dog. If you are working on 'tame' sheep then they are teaching her and you the wrong things. Dont turning herding into obedience. Allow the dog time to figure things out on her own with help not commands. If she learns how sheep move and how her movement effects sheep she will have it. If you tell her every step she will relie on being told. Let it be her responsibility. If she is from working lines she knows more about sheep than you do let her use it. My young dogs are doing chores, driving and inside flanks, penning before they really know their flanks or more than a stop and walk up. The commands are easy once the dog learns about sheep.

I have always wondered if folks involved in rescue try to put some training on dogs like this and place them in a working home? Seems to me no better life for a bc who enjoys working than to be trained and partner with someone who will enjoy their assistance.

First I would check on the vets emergency protocol - some see after hours calls some refer to emergency clinics. You will want to know ahead of time where to call and go in case you have trouble. Nesting usually happens the day before whelping. Taking the temp is good to give you a closer idea of when things will start. Most bitches temp drops then once it rises again to over 100 whelping will happen soon. Bitches are often uncomfortable, move around, whim ect. It always amazes me how few contractions I see before a pup. It happens fast. I want the pup breathing fast so will break the sac if it is not or she does not do it right away. Some bitches are great about chewing cord but I have dental floss and scissors just in case. I also have gloves and lube. Most of my bitches have pups within 30 min after the first. IF larger litter things can slow up at the end and go longer between pups. Anything over 2 hours between pups I am on the phone to the vet. There may be nasty green, black discharge after the first pup but any greenish before a pup is a problem and vet needs to be consulted. Any long contracting or lots of contractions before a pup or without a pup is also a concern. I have never seen blood shot eyes I love the dura whelp whelping box. Use old sheets and towels during whelping and use bath towels to line whelping box after. Most pups seem to come out and looking for a nipple while still wet and slimy. I leave the pups with the mom so they can nurse asap. Box needs to be in draft free area and quiet. If I take the bitch out to potty she is on a leash and I take a towel with me, just in case. I have used a heating pad or extra heat source, mom keeps them warn enough but do whelp in the house. I offer water during whelping. Usually feeding 3 times a day before and after pups - good quality puppy food. My girls hate to leave pups first 3 days so often have to take them out on a leash. Never allow other dogs in room with her till pups are older. I am always glad when everyone is born and has sucked. If any pup does not attach well of is more vocal than the rest may be a problem. breech births are normal for dogs That is about all that comes to mind right away. Seems most births happen in the middle of the night. have fun

I believe any correction is get the dog to stop the action it was corrected for and to THINK and look to you asking What do you want. If the correction does not accomplish those things the dog did not process it as a correction. Makes little difference what we think if it was or was not a correction - it matters what the dog thought. My goal is to raise/train/interact with the dogs in such a way that I only need a voice correction. Some dogs need a physical disruption in addition to the voice correction - that could be just stepping in front of them. Some are so focused they do not hear you. I try a hand clap or whistle or something to get their attention. With leash walking I do not just stop I correct the dog for pulling and turn sharply another direction and start walking. We do not go from point A to point B. I allow the dog to be in front of me as long as they do not pull walking on a very loose line. As soon as they pull I change direction it is very unpredictable path do the dogs start looking to me for direction and information where WE are going instead of set on a path where They are going. I can usually change that behavior in 5 min with an older pup/dog by doing this. I tend to simply use encouragement and praise and correction not treats. As the dog tunes in to me I allow more freedom. Hopefully you have a fenced in safe area where she can run and play and be a dog but you can ask you to come back to you and go get her when she does not. With my first bc I lived on a cattle ranch and would often tie a long line to my waist when I was walking fence lines, fixing fence out in the pastures ect. This taught him he had to stay rather close, could sniff and explore some but had to recall each time I called. He grew into a dog that would go run and play but check in with me every few minutes on his own. He would come up I would talk to him then tell him he could go play again. I used Here for him to come ALL the Way to me so I could get my hands on him. Other times I used that is far enough so he wouldn't get farther away from me or lets go meaning we are headed over here but you do not have to come all the way back. I want my dogs checking in and asking me what we are doing or if they can go play, I want/need to be the most important thing in their world since we are often out in pastures working. I am most likely boring, do not act silly or give yummy treats. I simply ask for what I want and expect them to it. I do not ask if I am unwilling to follow through. I think many problems arise when the dog decides it does not need you and there are no consequences to them ignoring you. I do not make myself more important by bribing them but by waiting for them to ask for things - I am the way to all good things.

I do agree a pup is not "trained" and their attention span can be short and let them be a pup ect. BUT if you ask your dog to do something - anything and ALLOW it not to do it you are teaching it 1- you do not mean what you say, 2 - they can Ignore you, 3- disobeying has no consequences .... I try very hard to never say /ask something I am not in a position to make happen with pups. That way they never learn it is ok to not do it or do not have to listen till I have said it three times. Say what you mean and mean what you say - the first time. If that takes a long line and reeling her in when you ask her to recall so be in. I try always to encourage them them to come when called. I think most young dog reach a stage, maybe a couple of them where they test the waters to see just what the rules are. My bitches always seem to do this early and typically take more convincing that I am indeed serious. I would correct the leash pulling or jerking, I think it is a symptom of her general attitude that she wants to do as she pleases. I feel it is disrespectful. I may even curtail her general free time if she were blowing me off. make her ask for things and realize you are the provider of all good things. If you crate train before she goes outside or plays ask for her to sit and be petted, make her acknowledge you not just race out past you on her own agenda. Little adjustments can make a huge difference

With a dog that is tentative, concerned, unsure for whatever reason I do not say much or make much eye content, usually nothing in my hands. My intent is simply getting their instincts to kick in, gain confidence and enjoy working sheep. I use the sheep and sheeps' movement to accomplish this. I go to the sheep, touch the sheep, move sheep myself, clap maybe, ssshhh sounds ect. The movement of the sheep should get her excited about moving and going around- might take some time- I am not looking for square flanks or balance or anything at first just letting her figure out sheep. Sometimes with a dog that is tentative if you correct much at all you can set them back, they just dont yet understand. Once they are keener more focused on sheep and more confident then small corrections can be used to help them figure out what it is you want. Lighter sheep in a controlled space like a round pen works well. Once she is going around one direction try to change her direction but if she does not change dont make it a big deal. When she is going both directions and balancing then work on stopping a bit and keeping sheep with you. Small steps will get her there faster than asking for everything at once or perfect right away.

Looking for a ride to Omaha area from Indiana. Can bring to Bluegrass Pup 8 weeks old. Litter has all been very outgoing and well socialized just thought I would ask since lots of folks traveling to trials. my cell is 605- 842-6321 thanks Denice Rackley

I have to think that you are not just breeding individual dogs but breeding to the entire litter/line. The more I expect of my dogs and the more time I have spent working with them allows for a more comprehensive view. While 1 individual may be out in the world where it is seen it seems to me that if most pups from the litter are good working dogs that would speak even better to there being breeding potential - as opposed to the other pups in that litter no working well. That is part of the reason I like to start more than 1 pup from a litter - to see if those pupS have it and the breeding might be worth repeating or not. Sometimes you cross two dogs that are your best working dogs and those pups fall short, just can not predict results unfortunately

I agree with T - Go for it. All the miles pay off - we are always learning and so are the dogs. Yep shedding is where I get in the way too. Jack Knox was here recently doing a clinic and happened to have several of his dogs with him. We were blessed with a couple demos. Jack brought up his oldest open dog to show us. He is always telling me "call the dog through" just do it, let him make the hole as he comes... Well I witnessed a torpedo in action - the sheep had no choice but to split cause Nap was coming THROUGH. No pussy footing around there. Now if only I get myself out of the way when my dog comes through that confidently I will be good.

I would start training him NOT TO CHASE ANYTHING. I think you need to see goose work differently - he needs to be taught to WORK geese and round them up - not chase them but bring them to you. May indeed have the same effect for the geese but will be a different mind set for you and him. Chasing has nothing to do with you or being a partner - rounding up/ bringing things to you is all about you. Movement kicks in their instinct which is telling them to do something with whatever is moving. I do not begin training in an area of any size till I can stop them and call them back. We start walking a pasture with sheep with pups on a leash then long line then dragging a line ect.

It is interesting to me that many people think/assume a correction is a bad thing or negative. It is more information for the dog which can be very useful. A dog that is corrected ideally looks to you saying "what?" Then you can help them with more information. Every dog is different but I believe those that are raised well being taught the basics of what behaviors are acceptable and what are not, taught to be respectful are well prepared for stock work and tend to not need much in the way of correction. Those that come to stock work that have learned they are in control, do not care who is on the other end of leash, and have gone through life doing their own thing will be tougher to get through to. They will be the ones that work for themselves and not really looking to work as a partner or looking for help. More than likely they will need to adjust their thinking before working stock. If you take a dog like that with instinct to stock it will most likely blow you off. YOU need to protect the stock so resort to harsher corrections in order to get through to the dog when in fact the dogs mind needs changed before he ever is allowed to be with stock. These are the dogs at clinics where I see a clinician really have to work to get through to the dog. Had the basics - the foundation been in place - the stock work will follow.

Working at a vet office you see quite a few 'found' animals brought in. One of my biggest fears is one of dogs gets lost so i try to do all I can to prevent that and to go the extra mile when reuniting dogs with owners. All my dogs wear snug collars 24 x7 with riveted tags so there is little chance of getting collar caught. They are also all microchipped with a home again chip. Not all readers have been able to read every chip but most if not all can read the home again. I chip all pups in a litter and register them to ME - that way I know at least i will be contacted if the owners do not transfer that info. I tell new owners they can leave me as a contact if they choose. All pups also go home or on a plane with collar and ID. To transfer I either need to call the company and do it or the new owner sends me a form that I need to sign and send in. I do not like their chip number on the collar, Nothing stopping them from saying yeah thats my dog here is his number. Home again also will take info and photo and has lost pet alerts they send out to vets and others - great service. Chips can and do migrate and will occasionally not be found. Happened to me, in that case they will replace that chip at no charge and have both chips registered to that dog. Always a good idea to check the chips when the dog is at the vet office.

The thing I see is that the agility trained dogs (and People) are used to using quite a bit of hand and body ques for instruction. The dogs are taught to watch the people. In stock work this can be difficult to break for both if they do agility first. The dogs I see started on sheep first that have instinct for stock work seem to sort this out and it is not a problem for them but it seems harder for the agility people to understand blocking the wrong vs showing/leading the dog to the correct.

Most lambs I have moved with their moms are a bit oblivious to the dogs, they go along because everyone else is going. I dont think it is so much they do not flock as it is they dont respond to the dog or use of eye or body movement like older sheep. I cant say what age that changes but it is a couple months imo.I have early weaned lambs at 2.5 to 3 months old and worked only lambs and those did fine, were a bit challenging to get them all lined out but working as a group did well. Individual lambs can get squirrelly Now I have had different dogs develop their own "style' to deal with young lambs and be very effective in moving them. Lad pushed them along with his nose at times to nudge them in the right direction, Meg will do an army crawl working a couple inches off the ground when moving new pairs. I imagine it could be a bit breed dependent as well.

Looks a bit like a Boston face to me. Depending on the rescue many go by color as opposed to body shape and size. Black larger dogs are lab, Black/White are Border Collie ect She is a cutie - enjoy her

I do think there is a large difference in breeds what works for them and what it is we are 'training' or asking of them. There are also always individual personalities - theirs and ours - that come into play. I do believe what needs to be center no matter what is Respect, Trust - for us and from us and Consistency. If we have those three things I think you can do about anything. If you raise your 8 wk 12 lb pup to be a 50 lb dog you be more cognizant of treating him and educating him so life will be good at 50lbs rather than suddenly changing the rules. If as an 8 wk old you trim nails weekly just by asking him to be still and keep trimming if he squirms and wiggles or complains making him hold relatively still. Letting him know those moments he is doing well and not so well by verbal information and tone then at 6 mo and 4 yrs and 15 nail trimming is just matter of fact. They might not like it but no big deal. If you teach them to stay close and not pull when young most do well with simple reminders as they grow and become more independent. Sure treats can used to reward behaviors and are great at instant gratification, especially for pups whos attention span is limited. But along with treats should be praise then you can easily phase treats out quickly leaving reward as praise. I think there is a huge difference in the dogs mindset if they are working for approval/ to please you or if working for food and self gratification. If for food they can tell quickly if you have any and some will simply decide it is not worth it. IF you have a respectful relationship they are more than likely to Choose to do as asked because they enjoy you being pleased or do not want you to be displeased. Yes I think they make choices as to what to do in certain situations. Stock work takes things to another level. It is about instinct, skill, and gaining confidence but still goes back to respect and trust.

My pups sleep in crates to avoid any messes, to teach them to hold it and wait to go out, to avoid any other problems so first thing - very first thing is to go out with the pup. the only way you know if they have pooped and peed outside is to go with them. If they did both they can have free play time inside and I feel relatively safe I have 30 min before they need to go out again. If they did not do both they go back in the crate. I do not consider it punishment it is prevention - keeping them from eliminating in the house and helping him learn to go outside. I feel the only time puppy pad are ok is if you will gone longer than he can wait. I do crate my pups every time they are unattended. I also have an outdoor kennel that allows them to poo outside so on nice days they can be there if i am working ect.

Laura, The boy is slowing down, 13 this winter. He would very unhappy if he did not get to work. I do save the harder tougher jobs for the younger ones but sometimes I need his wisdom I think of Bill from time to time, I am sure he is pleased. Could not have a better partner than Blu is. Hope all is well in CO

Wully You make me laugh I have no delusion of grandeur. If I had my first working dog I bought trained would have nipped it in the bud. Lad had worked large flocks - thousand of sheep- pasture lambing in Canada and the Dakotas - before he came to me. He had this LOOK that said 'You really think that is what you want me to do? Better think again.' or when he was really discussed his look said "your kidding me right?" He wouldn't move if I asked for the wrong thing, when I asked for the right thing he did not hesitate. When your dog tells you are wrong it makes you humble Fast. I knew I was improving when his look changed to " i think you might be getting it" If I gave him no commands because I simply did not know how or what to ask he never failed to take of it. I owe a lot to Lad for teaching me a ton about sheep and working sheep and Border Collies. Lad taught me it is usually the human that does something to cause the problem, not the dog. Sure miss him

Everybody has their system, it can be lots of chutes and fence or it can be you and the dog. Fence building is slow and expensive - if I ever win the lotto I know right where the money can go. I use lots of electonet and the dogs. Without another person they are my extra set of hands and legs. What we can not do together usually does not get done. I have learned never to go to the pasture without at least one dog, not that they would let me anyway. Meg is my Ace in the hole when lambing, she is steady and the ewe are not worried about her but boy oh boy can she move and turn on a dime. She has a slight lamb addiction but most of the time it is my favor. Some occasions she will ignore the ewe and work only the lambs with a belly army crawl move she perfected. I just remind her we need the momma also. Tonight she helped moved a ewe a lamb to the barn while I carried one of the twins then we went out and pushed all the older pairs up for the night. A silly lamb ducked under a gate and then could not get to his mom or the rest of the group and he was a fast bugger, not sure what I would have done without Meg to continue to head him to the gate I held open while he was frantically searching for a way through the square mesh fence. His plan was not going to work but Meg knew where he needed to go, plan b was to send her to bring some ewes back to help him navigate around the fence like he should have done the first time. Basically if a sheep needs moved or touched - medicated, vaccinated, dewormed, lambs pulled, bag checked, ear tags put in, rams in or out of a pasture...or fed the dogs help me get it done. Yep LOTS more than simply moving them here to there. What most people would see when sheep is sheep being gathered and driven is the tip of the iceburg but even that takes more skills than is apparent. You get a larger flock of sheep - say 75 - 300 - up it takes that dog knowing when and where to push - how hard - how fast - what distance to keep itself - if it needs to push from the very back or off to one side - when to push on the other side to keep everyone moving together - how to pace themselves - if the flock is stopped can they take a nap or need to stay watching or need to stand so sheep do not try to go back where they just came from... push to hard and tick of those ewes and some will turn and fight... How to navigate fences and open gates and obstacles and thick brush... What happens when a sheep sticks it head in the fence and can not come with everyone else, a really good dog does not leave that sheep.. ( my dogs tell me when they need me and cant take care of it alone) What about a lamb that gets separated from the flock or in the wrong pasture or is laying sleeping and does not hear the rest of the flock leave...Blu will stand by that lamb and wait for me or nudge it awake so it follows the others. Not sure I would believe it if I did not see it myself. These dogs are Nothing short of AMAZING. What makes a Border Collie a Border Collie - I believe it is their ability to reason and think on their feet, they figure out way more than I could ever teach them.

My dogs work as long as I do yes it varies with seasons. This morning at 530 bottle fed and checked everyone back to the house to have breakfast and await sunrise. We went back out at 8:30 I measured grain then we fed ewes in the barn and behind the barn with new lambs. Then the close to lambing group, next month group and the ewe lambs. Each of those requires the dog to hold the ewes off the gate while I dump in feed then call off. I had to check two different ewes bags so they cornered those girls for me, then I banded tails and put marking paint on new lambs so they kept those families together. Then I fed hay to 3 different pastures - the dogs either gathered and moved the flock or help them back from the gate then away from the bale feeder until I was done. Then it was fill water buckets/tanks stood with me there also just to keep everyone in line. Then I took a break to work my young dog so had an older one move sheep out of the pasture to leave me only a few. Finished that, put sheep back then sorted close up ewes to behind the barn since it may snow. then a ewe was lambing and not making progress with just back feet out so one of the dogs put her in a pen for me so I could pull that lamb... At 4 I came in for a bite to eat so the dogs get a break also. When I move from my chair they will beat me to the door

When I have young pups I try to feed dinner rather early and also pick up the water bowl a couple hours before bed time. I think all dogs should learn to be alone and ok with being alone and learn to be crated alone. At some point in their lives for some period of time they will not be able to be together so why not teach them it is all good now. Also even with potty pad the more times they walk out and take care of business in the house the harder it will be to teach them Where to go, When to go and that they need You to let them out. If you are gone all day fine, they will not be able to wait that long but if the door is shut they will wake you up. I get up, take them out and we all go right back to bed. This teaches them in the middle of night is not play time and just cause you cry doesn't get you play time. It also teaches them to go out and take care of things asap - during the day they get to play After potty time.

It is tough for everyone but I too say let her be as active as she wants to be. I have been around dogs that have a poor prognosis for the future and do everything they want to do and lived far beyond what was expected. I know of others who die suddenly so we all need to live in the moment more. I agree no money should have been taken for the dog. Not all vets are as good at picking up or hearing heart murmur so the breeder may have indeed been told it was minor while the cardiologist has much more experience in the area. I would send a copy of the specialists finding to the owner and their vet and go from there. If indeed it is a breeder who is interested in breeding working dogs and forwarding the breed then I would think they would contact you after reading the report.