OurBoys

JJ’s horrible on Frisbees. And Josie thinks they are for playing tug. Between JJ’s “jaws of steel” and the numerous games of tug between the two, I’m surprised at how well they’ve (Nylabone Frisbees) held up.

Tranq, please give your mom (and dad if he’s still around) a big hug. She’s going through a special kind of pain and anguish no parent should ever have to go through. You guys are in my prayers.

Welcome! Those are made by Nylabone. You can find them in the pet section of Lowe's Home Improvement. I agree. They are the best. We have several and we've used them for years.

I could be way off base here but I believe there’s a difference in a heavy undercoat and a double undercoat. To me, Jake has a regular undercoat. In the springtime when he starts blowing his coat, I can brush him out and end up with a large pile of fur but he looks slender any time of year. Josie has a thick undercoat. She looks heavier during the winter months but after she blows her coat you can see how slender she is. JJ has a double undercoat. I can brush him out for 2-3 hours, have a huge pile of fur and the boy still looks fluffy. Unless you run your fingers through his coat you would think he’s overweight. (Unless you’re standing around when he comes out of water but as soon as he shakes, he’s fluffy again.) JJ’s undercoat is one reason I believe he’s from AKC lines.

I switched my dogs over to Earthborn’s Great Plains Feast. Jake and Josie have been on it for a few weeks and seem to be doing well. I just used up the last bag of JJ’s EVO so he hasn't been on it for long but it seems to be agreeing with him. Whatever kibble you choose to go with, you can always supplement it with a homemade ‘vitamin gravy’ using what you think would work best. For my guys I make a gravy using (all pureed): Boiled beef liver (cheaper than calves liver) Brown rice (If mine start losing too much weight, I increase the amount of rice.) Pumpkin Plain yogurt Calcium pills Glucosamine pills Low sodium V-8 juice An overripe banana or 2 if I have any Twice a day they get kibble, gravy, a flaxseed oil capsule and water at meal time. (Jake gets twice as much water in his bowl since he won't drink enough on his own during the day.) For cleaning their teeth, they get a turkey neck or a marrow bone every once in a while. They’ve been in search of rabbit droppings lately so they got one of each this week. Cleared their bad breath right up.

We call it "Paws Off". (Once the dogs learned "off" all I had to do was rub their front paws while saying "paws, paws....) The first time JJ stood on his back legs without touching the counter, I had to smile at myself.

But what if this time they do? Do you have a backup plan just in case?

Here's a chart that might help. http://mysite.verizon.net/vze826tz/id18.html

I understand that. There’s no way you are able to watch her 24/7. But it sounds like you still need to devote more time in training her. I disagree. When she comes home from being spayed (preferably before she is spayed) is the perfect time to tether her to you. You will be able to watch her closer to make sure she doesn’t start chewing on her stitches and you’ll be able to get some training in. If/when you see she’s getting ready to jump up on the couch, place the palm of your hand in front of her and say “Wait”. When she looks at you, give her a treat. If you don’t mind her being on the couch, gently pick her up and place her there. If you don’t want her on the couch tell her “Heel”, show her you have a treat in your hand and start walking away. If she hesitates, remind her you have a treat. When she starts following you, take a few more steps then stop and give her the treat. Ok, so she has to be watched. Talk to her while you’re watching her. If you don’t feel like talking to her, plan ahead and have her peanut butter stuffed toy with you to give her. Either way, you’re showing her what acceptable behavior is-watching/listening to you instead of chewing on her harness or chewing on her toy instead of the harness.

You answered your own question in a previous post when you said. It sounds like she sees being indoors as being in solitary confinement; punishment. Are you saying as soon as you see she’s tired, you bring her in the house and pen her up? Does she ever get to just lie in the sun and drink in the fresh air? She’s still a puppy. She’s overly excited about getting out of solitary confinement and going outside. What are you doing to teach her self-control? You’ve had her for several months now. How many commands does she know? Teaching her commands will help in teaching her self-control. Maturing has nothing to do with getting older. It has to do with training. What are you doing to teach her what’s appropriate to chew and what’s not appropriate to chew? If you think Xena’s going to wake up one morning and think “I’m only going to chew on my chew toys and leave my human’s shoes and the baseboard alone” you’re wrong. It’s your responsibility to teach her what she can chew on and what’s off limits. If you don’t take the time to do that, she’s still going to be chewing on your shoes, table legs, baseboards, etc when she’s 6, 7, 9 yrs old. And why shouldn’t she if you didn’t take the time to teach her right from wrong? If Xena were mine, I would give her more freedom in the house. I would keep an eye on her and if she started chewing on something she shouldn’t, I would take it away from her and replace it with something she could chew on. And when I didn’t have time to watch her, I would tether her to me. That would free me up to do whatever it was I needed to do, give Xena more “freedom” than being in the pen and hopefully help her bond with me.

We had a no dogs on the furniture rule until Josie came into our lives. JJ still won't get up on the loveseat unless there's a storm then he wants to be between your back and the back of the loveseat. Jake and Josie have staked out their own sides. Jake also likes pillows.

Betty, I apologize if this is a dumb question but in Frankie's stunt picture, is that an eagle flying on the left hand side?

I hate e-fences. Not only do some dogs become afraid of going outside, it does nothing to stop strange dogs from coming onto your property. (We don’t have a leash law per se in the county I live in. As long as you can control your dog with voice commands, you don’t have to have them on a leash.) Our other next door neighbors (the nice ones) use an e-fence. More than once I’ve heard a commotion outside and went running out the door to help Lucy, the Beagle mix. Just earlier this week, Jake and Josie were outside and started raising heck. It wasn’t a warning barking/growling; they meant business. When I went outside to see what was going on, I found a man with 2 dogs in the neighbor’s yard next to our side yard fence. Apparently, one of his dogs got loose. He was trying his best to re-leash his dog but with 2 of mine out there making a scene, he was having a problem. Lucy was nowhere to be seen or heard. She had taken cover and didn’t come out until after the guy and his dogs were gone. (I had brought Jake & Josie back in so his dog would calm down.) The dog that had gotten loose was a huge dog. I’d hate to think what would have happened to little Lucy if it had attacked her. I think Josie might have thought the same thing. She loves Lucy and I’d never seen her so mad. ETA: My feelings stated above are in regards to pets. I understand if e-fences are needed for livestock. Though after reading rushdoggie's post I can see how they could be useful as an addition but never alone.

Gary, how did Xena act the 2nd and 3rd time you put the harness on her?

Trust me that thought crossed my mind more than once. If they had passed a law or an ordinance allowing me to do that, I would have dug it out of storage in a heartbeat. ;)/> Jake knew when he had it on and when he didn’t. I didn’t care. (Jake didn’t wear the collar every day.) I just needed something that would bring him back to reality when he zoned out. I had tried water bottles, sticks, standing in his path, making loud noises, toys. Nothing worked until Jake was tone trained. But that was before we bonded. It was important to me for Jake to look for me for instruction/guidance but at the time, to him, I was no different than the guy next door. Taking him to obedience class where it was a more controlled environment was the best thing that happened to him. (Talk about distractions, not only there were other dogs in the class but for the first couple of weeks, there were birds flying around in the store but those distractions I could handle. :)/> ) I know all trainers are not created equally but e-collars shouldn’t become crutches. Does that make sense? ETA: Are bark collars the same thing as e-collars? I thought bark collars sprayed a scent vs e-collars that shock.

Even though I ended up getting an e-collar, IMO, I don’t believe one should be used on a sensitive, intelligent dog. I don’t care how experienced a person is, there is going to be a time when your timing is off. I’m not proud of the fact I broke down and bought one but this was before I knew this forum existed and I didn’t know what else to do at the time. The only thing I did know, it was imperative for Jake's safety for him to stay off that section of fence until he learned to ignore distractions and listen to me. Our next door neighbor from hell is what I would describe as a passive/aggressive bully. He’s always there for you if/when you need him (and even to this day he thinks I’m a great person because I rescue) but he used to have a dog aggressive German Shepherd, Sada. I really think he got off on the fact his dog could/would beat up other dogs. Sada had got hold of every dog in our subdivision with the exception of Jake and Josie by the time she died. (Sada died soon after we got Josie.) The day Sada got hold of JJ I really believe the thick coat around his neck helped save him. Sada had gotten him around the throat and wouldn’t let go. Only when DH stuck his finger down her throat did she release him. (Back then, DH didn’t know there was such a thing as a dog aggressive dog and he thought since we were friends with the neighbors, our dogs would be friends too.) After that day, our dogs were never allowed to be around Sada despite the NFH’s attempts. He would drive his tractor close to our fence. If it grabbed a piece of it and pulled it out, he would keep driving and not say anything to us. Every time he walked by our fence, he would hit it with the back of his hand to rile up my dogs. He let Sada follow him over here when he used to come over to knock on our front door. When he realized we don’t let our dogs run around the front yard, he came to the back door. Our backyard is fenced in. One time I had just come into the house with JJ & Jake. While I was taking my shoes off, I heard a knock on the back door. There he stood………with Sada. He told me it was his wife’s fault Sada followed him into our fenced in backyard. I still haven’t figured that one out. (I just gave him a “You’re full of sh!t” look, told him I would get DH, closed the door in his face and made him wait outside.) One of the other neighbor’s was going to sue him until he paid for their $400 vet bill and agreed to hire a trainer. The trainer only came to their house for a few weeks. The NFH would sit in a chair in the front yard while his wife worked with the trainer. The trainer finally told them if he wasn’t going to bother working with Sada, she was just taking their money and quit on them. So, even after Jake learned to ignore distractions (the reason I enrolled him in obedience class) and listen to me, I still had to do a lot of managing to keep him safe. I think what floored me more than anything was the time NFH asked me to let Jake out of the yard to “play” with Sada. This was just a few weeks before she died. I don’t know what she died from but she had horrible hips by then; she could barely get around. I’m sure he thought Jake would go up to her to sniff her and she could get ahold of him then but if not, why encourage a dog with such bad hips and in a lot of pain to run? (He told me I didn’t have anything to worry about since Jake was such a fast runner.) (((Sigh))) I’ll be so glad when we are finally able move from here.

Mike, it’s obvious from your initial post and the title of this thread you thought you were joining a forum that would allow you to gloat and expect tons of kudos. The fact you even requested the link to that other forum reinforces my belief. If I’m wrong, I apologize. But in regards to the e-collar… There is a bumper sticker that says “If it’s not a Border Collie it’s just a dog”. Wanna guess why? Everything you think you know about dogs, throw it away. Border Collies are NOT your typical every day kind of dog. That’s what everybody has been trying to tell you. If they are bred from working lines they are bred to be people oriented in the first place. What I’m saying is Leonard looks to YOU for direction/training, not an e-collar. Have I ever used one? Yes, on the second Border Collie I got, Jake, but only because I felt his life depended on it. (I adopted Jake on 7/22/06 so if you think this forum had anything to do with my actions, you’re wrong. If you take the time to look, I didn’t join this forum until ’07.) I have a next door neighbor from hell but I won’t go into detail but if it wasn’t for him we wouldn’t have bought it then. With that said, I still enrolled Jake in an obedience class the same day we bought the collar. (We had to wait a couple weeks before the classes began. And before you give me hell and insist you know more about dogs than I do, I’m older than you are and feel pretty sure I have owned more dogs than you have in my lifetime. Why?? Because if I had have kids, they would have given me grandkids by now so don’t even go there.) The sad truth is if you’re using an e-collar to train Leonard on something that has nothing to do with a life or death situation, you’re taking the lazy way out. You’re also denying yourself of a deeper relationship with Leonard. If you think Leonard loves you now, you have no idea how deep that love can be if you didn’t use the e-collar. (We stopped using the e-collar ASAP. And in case you’re wondering if I know how to use it, I don’t believe in shocking dogs. Jake is tone trained. That was my first priority. If I were to bring the collar out today, he would walk up to me freely so I could put it on him. Is Leonard tone trained??) Border Collies are special dogs, Mike. They have an intelligence level a lot of people don’t understand. (Why should they? They’re just dogs, right??) Do you fall into that category? If so, I feel sorry for you and Leonard. (My DH underestimated our first Border Collie’s intelligence but he quickly learned otherwise.) Since Leonard is only 7 months old and he still seems to be happy, you still have a chance. Don’t blow it. (A number of Border Collies are turned into shelters around the age of 8-10 months.)

I love the fact our dogs are crate trained. It comes in handy for a number of reasons. The night I broke the glass, my first reaction was getting angry at myself for dropping it. That changed to panic when I saw (Nosey) Josie getting ready to come into the kitchen to see what had happened. After telling her to go into the living room, I looked around the kitchen floor and saw how scattered the glass was. I didn’t want to have to be constantly looking over my shoulder to make sure none of the dogs came close so I crated all 3 until I had the mess cleaned up. Another good command to teach is the “Drop It”. One day DH took a plastic container out of the freezer and dropped it. (Yeah, we can be clumsy at times.) The lid and container broke into a few pieces. We thought we got them all up. Later, Jake was keeping me company in the kitchen when I heard this odd chewing sound. When I asked him to “Drop It”, he spit out a piece of the plastic lid.

There are a lot of tricks and commands you can teach her. For a useless but cute pet trick, teach her to take a bow. It’s real easy. Ever notice how dogs stretch? They stretch the front part of their bodies and then their back part. Every time you see Xena stretch the front part of her body say “Take a bow”. After several days, have some treats in hand, and ask her to “Take a bow”. If she doesn’t understand what you are asking her to do, take the treat and move it to under her chin slightly. If she plops her butt down, start over. Teach her the difference between her left and her right paws. On the rare occasions Xena is still, rub her right leg while saying “Right. Right. Right”. After a few days, have her sit in front of you and tell her “Give me your right”. If she doesn’t get it, point to her right leg while saying it. If she still doesn’t get it, don’t worry about it. Ask her to do something she does know and reward her for that. (Always stop on a positive note.) Later you can rub her right leg when you get a chance and say “Right. Right. Right.” and try again. Once she gets that down, teach her “Give me your left”. Teach her to say her prayers. I don’t remember how I taught JJ but people enjoy it when they see him do it. On a more serious note… Teach her to “Heel”. When/if she moves away from you, teach her “Move In”. That can come in handy when you take her out in public. Stay is a great command. You can teach her to not run to the door every time someone knocks or rings the doorbell with that. Thank you for thinking of teaching her that. This might sound odd but “Back it up” comes in handy around the house here. My command for this is “Put it in my hand”. And yes, they actually have to put it in my hand. If they miss, I tell them “Get it” and then repeat “Put it in my hand”. But at this stage in the game, “bring me the ball” is a great first baby step. Some commands are not only good for using a dog’s brain but it can also save their life. Or at least save you a vet bill. With you living next to a forest, a solid “Lie Down” or “Stop/Halt” can come in real handy. No matter how diligent you are, one of these days Xena is going to take off towards the forest. I loooove the “Leave It” command. My mom lives with us. She takes a handful of pills in the morning, another handful at night and a couple of pills in between. One morning she dropped her pills. My dogs are smart but they aren’t smart enough to know the difference between treats and my mom’s pills. (I’ve told my mom at least 35 times over the past 7 years to not feed the dogs from the kitchen table but that’s a vent for another thread.) When Josie heard the pills hit the floor she jumped up thinking she was going to get a treat. Thank goodness I happened to be at the kitchen sink. When I saw Josie out of the corner of my eye walking quickly into the kitchen, I said “Leave It” in a calm voice. She stopped in her tracks, hung her head, turned around and walked back into the living room. At the time, 2 of those pills were for high blood pressure. I hate to think what would have happened if Josie had woofed down those 2 before I could stop her. My dogs know “Go in the living room”. That one came in handy the time I dropped a glass in the kitchen and it shattered into a thousand pieces. The “Go in the living room” command also comes in handy when my mom is eating her cereal or snacks at the kitchen table but like I said earlier, that’s vent for another thread. :)/> (My dogs know better than to beg at the table when DH & I are also sitting there.) Put a word to Xena’s barking-Speak. Once she knows speak = barking put the word “No” in front of it. I’m assuming she knows what “No” means so eventually when you tell her “No Speak” she’ll get it. You can then put the word “Quiet” in front of “No Speak”. (Quiet. No Speak.) Eventually you should be able to shorten it to just “Quiet”. In the meantime, FWIW, you’re also teaching her the “Speak” command if you ever want to use it for some reason. For the commands I gave instructions on, remember they are not set in stone. Get to know Xena’s personality. Learn what works for her. My JJ is the type that has to sleep on it. He comes across as having to be coaxed the first day I try to teach him something (I think he does it just to get extra treats) but the next day all I have to do is ask him one time and he does it. If my Jake doesn’t get it by the 3rd time I ask him, I know I’m not doing something right. I’m not getting it across to him in a way he understands what I’m asking of him. And always stop on a positive note. If you seem to be having a problem getting Xena to understand what you are asking her to do, ask her to do something she does know and reward her for that. Then tell her "That'll do" and end the training session. "That'll do" is also a great command to teach her. It'll let her know that whatever you're doing, it's over.

We loved the DVD. Not only was it entertaining, it was educational. While watching the documentary DH kept asking questions. When we finishing watching that part, he asked me what part I wanted to watch next so I told him the judge’s comments. That part answered DH’s questions. We also enjoyed the handler’s comments and Amanda’s puppy training segments too. I do have a question though. Is there going to be another one in the future at some point?

Yes, this. You’ve had Xena for several weeks but all she knows is lie down and sit? Why? That’s not a reason, that’s an excuse. Since being with you, has Xena had a chance to actually run? There’s a popular saying “A tired dog is a happy dog”. How have you played with her physically to make her tired? It sounds like you also need to step up her training to make her mentally tired. If the only training you’re giving her is lie down and sit it sounds like Xena is also getting bored. Puppies don’t have a big attention span. If you’re only giving her 2 commands to learn, you’re not going to keep her attention for long; you won’t even keep an adult dog’s attention for long. You’re giving me the impression Xena is trying to tell you that but you aren’t listening. To be able to hold her attention longer you need to mix up the commands/tricks. Teaching her more commands and giving her puzzles to solve will help work her brain. Stop underestimating her intelligence or expecting her to put it on hold until it suits your timing. You're missing a very important part of your relationship with Xena. The more commands/tricks/training you teach/have with her, the stronger her bond will be with you. Why don’t you start a new thread and title it “Xena’s Journal”? Post every day how you interact with her.

That’s a good question. Isn’t Xena part Beagle? Back in ’04 when I told DH I was ready to get another dog Beagles were on the list until I read that, even though they were intelligent dogs, they had this “I know what you want me to do but what’s in it for me if I do it?” attitude. I don’t know if that’s true but, if it is, it might take a little longer to train her and/or means using different methods. I know this might sound crazy but instead of saying “No”, clear your throat. I have allergies and apparently I clear my throat more than I realize. One night I took the dogs out for their last bathroom break before going to bed when one of them decided to get ready to bark. I cleared my throat to say “No!” but then I didn’t have to. That’s when it dawned on me, to my dogs, clearing my throat meant “No”. If it sounds like a growl to her, maybe she’ll listen quicker. (It also comes in handy if you’re out in public and you want Xena to stop doing something and you don’t want to make a big scene.)

Sounds like she's just doesn't know how to handle her over-excitedness (word?). Try a firm, deep voiced "No". If she quits for just a second, tell her she's a good girl. If/when she starts again, put her to bed. BTW, does she know what "No" means? ETA: Let me rephrase that. How well does she know "No"?

I'm soooo in love with Faith.

Do you have any puppy teething toys you freeze? If not, you can buy some online. In the meantime, maybe freeze some carrots. They might help with her biting mode while she's teething. Also, sorry about misspelling Xena's name.