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Ellie

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Posts posted by Ellie

  1. Got Hank to keep Ellie company and he started to limp and sometimes leg would just stiffen then seem ok except for the limp. He is now 7 months and the vet xrays say elbow dysplasia ununited medial. There are2 fixes open surgery and orthroscopic. Maybe I can get the vet to my knee as well. Be expensive but it looks like it becomes debilitating quickly. I want to follwo the genetic thread as the local rancher from whom we got Hank needs to know as we had another Bc from him the mother was one of our pups never had it then a new dad same mother and bam

  2. Ellie would not even look at the frisbee "flying squirrel" and now she cannot get enough. And talk about agile. I have seen her flip in the air catch it upside down then land on her feet. She jumps for it and gets all 4 off the floor and it has helped teach her go around come around down bring it as closely as a rescue princess will come anyway! She now has been teaching the pup Hank by catching it waiting for him then letting him bring it back to me at 10 weeks. I am fairly certain Ellie told me this is what she wanted. Good eye contact! She will even play "baseball" I look at her while keeping up a radio commentary "a hot day here at the park. THe pitcher looks for the sign, (here Ellie gets part way up) takes it checks the runner on third (or first) goes into his wind up uh oh it's a steal (by now Ellie is off at a full tilt, the throw in time and he's out. Sometimes I ahve to go through the entire play by play sometimes it's football commentary and sometimes just a long eye contact look and a shift of the head to give a direction. Hey she's teaching me but aren't they always!

  3. Yeppers Ellie is the red and white and Hank is the white and black. I need to re name Hank to "I'm In" no matter what we do he is in! Ellei has become a fine surrogate Mom and a real good puppy herself as she time travels so maybe one day soon Hank (10 weeks) and Ellie will end up the same age. She has been nor ethan good she has been superb and incredibly patient even trying to teach Hank a few things. Probably would have made a good mom but that's all way in the past now.

  4. After a rather long series of posts concerning breeding Ellie we made the decision to gut her and get her a pal from one of the local ranchers that had one of our older pups. SO Ellie now haas Hank to pal around with and she is quite the protector and incredibly patient with a now 10 week male BC. Bonding very well and if another dog comes around Ellie gets herself between the pup and the other dog. It has helped her shy fearfulness and gives her a fine audio visual for learning. Hank (not named after the CowDog) but The Fabulous Ms. Leslie Dad is fearless jumps in the river at 6 weeks and swam out. If I ever get pictures I'll post 'em up. :rolleyes:

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  5. Hello everyone!

     

    I recently adopted a smooth Border collie. However, he is shedding like mad at the moment. Would a FURminator help his coat? Even though it's smooth I suppose he does have a bit of an undercoat hiking under there. Living in Ga I'm sure the heat is not very helpful in this :rolleyes:

    use it on the cats and Ellie she loves it sand it works!!!!

  6. The WBCR is going to have a booth at the Colorado PetExpo this wekeend. We will have our booth, some items you can buy to help us out and information on the dogs we have up for adoption. It should be fun. They are going to have booths from all over. Some vet clinics, some rescue groups, some home made items and so on. Most of it's dog related, but there is some cat stuff too. They are also going to have disk dog shows, agility and flyball shows. So everyone can see how it goes and how much fun it is. I will be at the WBCR booth from 4:30 to 7:00pm on Saturday, but will be around most of the day. If your around come by and say hi :rolleyes:

     

    sorry tomiss it AJ BUT today the anniversary of Katies death Ellie rolled over in the field and gave me stomach for a good ten minute rub.

  7. BTW John Katz is a dog trainer

     

    Im sorry, but...HUH!!! :D

     

    Im sure that comment will certinly bring down the house around here! Things like that are just about like saying Swafford is a great breeder of fine working dogs!

     

    also a damn fine writer and there are some scary but well ended stories about Devon his schoolbus chasing dog. He also had another trainer that helped him out. Was just of general interest. :rolleyes:

  8. BTW John Katz is a dog trainer

     

    Im sorry, but...HUH!!! :D

     

    Im sure that comment will certinly bring down the house around here! Things like that are just about like saying Swafford is a great breeder of fine working dogs!

     

    also a damn fine writer and there are some scary but well ended stories about Devon his schoolbus chasing dog. He also had another trainer that helped him out. Was just of general interest. :rolleyes:

  9. got kids?

     

    Utterly ridiculas argument. Having children and breeding dogs are two totally seperate ideals. Wether I have children or not, is none of your bussiness. Im not the one that came on here asking for input. Personally Im begining to think you came here looking for a fight, and I for one will entertain you no longer.

     

    I never asked for anyones opinion of whether or not I SHOULD COULD or WOULD only asked for peoples EXPERIENCE. THat means if you have done it. Think what you want however alien is the concept

  10. First of all, having children and breeding dogs are on opposite ends of the scale here. You came here to ask whether or not YOU should breed YOUR dog, not whether or not everyone should have kids. Lets try and stay on track before you offend more people with your opinionated views on human reproduction. We're talking canines. Not people.

     

    Now, I consider it pretty callous of you to state that most of these cattle dogs die off rather quickly thanks to accidents n the field. In all truth, if the owners are caring and take the time to train the dog properly, have a good eye for dangerous situations, not to mention provide good veterinary care, then there is no reason why they shouldn't prosper doing what they were bred to do, and retiring when the time is right. If you're so sure that these pups are going to go out there and just get killed off early by 'life on the ranches' out there, then I wonder how you can bring pups into this world in good conscience, knowing they are going to meet such a fate. Many people here who work their dogs have plenty of dogs who have reached their retirement stage and are healthy and thriving.

     

    Furthermore, has your dog had her hips/eyes checked? Any blood work? Has she ever even been tried on stock? Have you fully trained her so you are able to gauge her abilities, her pros and cons, you know--exactly what you'll be passing on through her lines??? What does your vet say about breeding her? Most vets these days are reluctant to give out breeding advice, thanks to the flood of puppies and dogs in shelters...

     

    You mentioned you got snipped because of a possibility of something being wrong with what you could pass on. Well, do the responsible thing and spay your dog, because without paperwork on her, you do not know if there is the possibility she'll be passing on something to her pups.

     

    Nuff said.

     

    Kids and dogs may be on the opposite end of the spectrum as you think but responsible breeding is responsible breeding is responsible breeding,for the "good of the breed". So that's the same track. ENough people on the planet now lost and unwanted or haven't you noticed.

    I never said they die off quickly. I said they die some in 10 years some in 10 months just like people or don't you read.

     

    ellie has had all her checks. hips eyes blood work, papers etc.

     

    Are you spayed or did you not do the responsible thing.

  11. First of all I would like to tell you, Thank you for your service in Vietnam. I have been dating a man that served 3 tours there. He was in the K9 unit. Also, as far as the gene pool goes towards children, I passed my disease down to my kids before I knew I had it. So I guess I, myself am a bad breeder people. When I first started in border collies, I did some breeding myself. Both of my dogs worked well on my farm and were trialing, but only in novice. Their parents were in open and I had hips and eyes tested and thought I was doing the right thing. I made sure that they went to good homes. Most went to working homes and I kept in touch with them for years. One went to an obedience home and he was an OTCH dog. I now know it was wrong. I would not do it again. So I honestly know how you are feeling. Keep in touch with AJ and he will lead you on the right path.

    Dianne

     

    good reply and tell your man welcome home from the Marines! Sorry about your kids. It was what I was alluding to about having children. KI was alert to the alleged dangers of Agent Orange so made the decision to be cut. These are not trial dogs or competition dogs just cow dogs which for some reason seem to offend people. I wonder if they ever have their DNA checked. Thanks for the reply.

  12. Well, I reckon there are several ajetives that could be used to describe or sum up your ideas where breeding Ellie are concerned, but I think the best one to describe it would be uneducated. I understand that putting this to the board was pretty much like slitting your wrists and jumping into the shark tank, but you knew that going in. I hope that A.J. and Maralyn have helped to educate you and you have a better understanding now of the why's and why nots of breeding, and that you've decided to spay her and enjoy her for who she is without the misconception that having pups may some how help or change her.

     

    got kids?

  13. Translation: You are deaf to good advice and opinions that don't support your own ideas.

     

    ...which are neither cogent nor empathetic, btw. There is nothing empathetic about breeding a chronically shy, unproven dog and bringing puppies that inherit these traits into a world FULL of puppies and dogs. And there is absolutely 100% nothing cogent about your "arguments" - and I use the term extremely loosely - for doing so.

     

    RDM

     

    whatever you think or am IK using that word too loosely for you.....

  14. I have not fled the thread as was so eloquently written. I just been a bit busy. Bit passive aggressive are we?

    And yes I know AJ and BlackJack. We have been talking since before Ellie would come to me and get a scratch. Y'all need ot read more figuratively then literally. Yes on every ranch dogs get killed; not an every day occurence or that common but it happens.

    I have NOT made up my mind to breed or not to breed I was seeking information not opinions. AJ and Maralynn had the sentiment and experience I sought. As for the rest maybe I am old school,I am old, and maybe not. I lost a few good dogs in Vietnam and 2 here. I would posit this question for those that think reproduction is best left to those that can "improve the gene pool" Did you think of that when you had your kids or your kids had kids? I see that as the same. I was clipped over 35 years ago don't regret it and have no children.

    Yeah I see things differently; believe that is what this place is about.

    Cogent and empathetic replies reach me.

    I take Ellie to the vet and she has a good time. I realize it is hard to create a picture in a short space. But thanks Maralynn and AJ. (Give my best to BlackJack)

    As far as the onerous paperwork it was more than that. I don't even give the government permission to come onto my property at will to inspect as they see fit with no time limits. And I never will.

    I am NOT against adoption or fostering or as you can see ransoming.

    "would have had the sense" I wonder if anyone that has kids ever thought about having the sense to see the world is well overpopulated and there are plenty of rescues that could be placed.

    That's right I am an opinionated, sometimes cranky, often lovable old man. I live with so get used to it and cease the personality comments.

  15. Aside from all the other reasons NOT to breed this dog, lets not forget the ONE reason to breed the dog. PROVEN WORKING ABILITY! So, she can come back when she's called, can she bring in the stock? can she hold stock for you? Sort, shed, what are this dogs positive attributes for even considering breeding this dog? Im confused as to why the thought has even crossed your mind if the dog hasnt proven herself on the feild on/with stock. Your work with this dog in order to prove this is a viable candidate for breeding has not even begun yet.

     

     

    These questions all good ones and she is working cows not sheep probably an easier task; cows I mean.

  16. Personal experience is where all that we/ I have said comes from that "is" relative to this matter.

    What questions would you have me ask? I already did ask questions, you didnt answer them.

    The breed does not need folks that empathize, it needs folks to realize that you breed for working abilty first and foremost.

    Im through with this, its getting nowhere. If some one doesnt sugar coat thier advise and suggestions, that "do" come from experience, you dont want to hear it anyway.

     

     

    me too What questions did I not answer? Sugar coat? You don't know what I want to hear because I don't know what I want to hear. I am looking for as much information based on the facts presented. If I can't make that clear maybe I should not even have a dog to be groomed

  17. The way I see it, you've already had 6 months from the last heat cycle till now, to make this decision, and you didnt get her spayed during this time. Asking if we know of any males you could use, and already stating that you have another male or two picked out, leads me to believe that this discussion is a moot point. All the info that you have been given, for all the reasons stated, wether you agree with them or not, is sound advise, from folks that arent so concerned with how you feel, in as much as they, and I, are concerned about the breed itself. No matter in what context it is written or taken when read it still spells the same thing. Breed for working ability. Breed only proven dogs. Especially, if you intend to place these pups in working homes.

    Just my 02. cents. I can only hope that with all the advise youve been given here, it makes some impact on your decision.

     

    it is late

    I wasn't asking for a dog to breed with but one that needed a home. Believe what you what but a question or two is a better way to elicit or provide information. Try it sometime. And I did not ask you just asked someone that empathized and provided personal experience relative to the matter at hand.

  18. Are you prepared to deal with the fact that something might go wrong with a pregnancy or whelping? Is it worth the risk of breeding her? Do you have the finances to deal with a emergency c-section or similar complication? And are you able to place any pups in homes where there is no possible chance that what happened to Ellie would happen to them?

     

    I have a dog who is my heart dog. She came to me as a 3 y/o intact with papers. She had a rough upbringing and was miserable before I got her. I worked with her to get through her issues and she became a nice farm helper for me. I actually thought about breeding her a couple times. A successful trial handler who I took a few lessons from even asked me if she was registered and intact because he really liked what he saw in her during the lessons.

     

    I ultimately decided against it and had her spayed because she had some anxiety issues, she hadn't fully proved herself in a variety of working situations, I didn't know enough to go about breeding a litter, I wasn't ready for the responsibility of placing a litter of pups, and I really, really did not want to risk anything happening to her.

     

     

     

    I really think your best way of getting a dog like that is by rescuing a young adult BC. There are plenty out there in shelters and rescue who are more than ready to fit that bill if given the chance.

     

    Maralynn whoa excellent post ma'am. It just about covers all the questions and emotions I have about this decision.

    I do have the finances and the placement would be no problem but the rest of your post says it all. I lost my heart dog and have worked and worked (not done yet!!!!!!!) to get this papered Bette Davis back to the planet and she will come back. Your second and third paragraphs hit the mark. Thanks.

    I'll keep all posted of the decision we make. Know of any good dogs that need the home?

  19. No no no no no no no! For all the reasons above *especially because*:

     

    1.) you do not know her lines and thus do not know if epilepsy or some other similar inherited condition could be lurking in them (even OFA and eye CERFs can't tell you what is lurking generations back)

     

    2.) it is impossible to tell if her behavior is genetically based, but given the severity I would say it likely is (my girl was pretty undersocialized when I got her but with training could almost be considered normal and that change happened in about 2.5 years, after year 1 she was already much improved and from your reports it really doesn't sound like that's the level of progress Ellie has made; slow progress can signal a genetic basis ime)

     

     

    3.) She has not proven her working ability (my girl eyes critters and has a gorgeous stalk outside of the field, on sheep she herds more like a cattle dog, what you have seen proves nothing about her abilities)

     

     

    4.) We don't need more BCs being bred outside of responsible breeding programs. I know you didn't want someone "jumping on you" for this, but I have to say it - it's pretty darn true.

     

    Do the responsible thing and spay your girl, enjoy her for what she is, and keep up all the good work you've been doing with her. She does not need to be bred to recover nor be a "whole" dog!

     

    I do know her lines

    in 10 months, 6 of which were a good winter, she has progressed to getting in the car, but not the truck, sitting on the couch and not hiding behind the chair, calling me to come "play"

    She has no proven working ability but then neither did the other pups we had and they are working cows just fine.

    I agree wholeheartedly on #4 and it cannot be said enough.

    Heck if I was back running 500 pair on 15000 acres I would not even be asking these questions but I'm not!

     

    Copy that on your last. I am keeping all the experiences so we can cull 'em down. I'm surely not looking to just breed a dog. Heck I don't even have any kids so I think that says where I stand!

    Thanks again

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