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About Turbo4go
- Birthday 05/04/1948
Turbo4go's Achievements
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"Quote" - Heh, don't pin his hostility towards anyone on me. Perhaps it was the personal statements and lack of tactful advice that got him on the defensive so to speak. Man, some of you guys need to lighten up for starters, quit acting like the Jedi counsel of Border Collies or something of the sort. And I agree with another poster talking about the cult like atmosphere that overtakes this board from time to time. Personally I'm on the fence about the whole breeding issue, however I disagree with being flat out rude and elitist when it comes to responding to opinions opposite of the "norm" of this board. This place is a great place to talk and learn about Border Collies, but sometimes it turns into a very hostile environment for those who are not in the "in" group. LJS1993 - you seem to be one of the few here that I would listen to. From the first post telling me to "Edit My Post" with no reason given, then followed with "Dennis is going to be BLACKBALLED", I immediately get very angry. Then I am called narrow minded, my dog is called FAT, I am "Helping Distroy a Breed", my dog came from a puppy mill, and on and on and on the insults continue. Quite frankly, if that is ment to help preserve the breed for "Working Only" Border Collies, you lost the battle long ago. I have to wonder how many others have you driven off this board, probably many. Wake up and smell the coffie people, Border Collies are being used by the majority of owners for activities other than herding damn sheep. If you want a good sheep herding dog, I understand an Australian Cattle dog is excellent, but be quick, because they are also showing up at agility competitions. For me, I've herd enough s--t. I'm going to another web site , where people are not so opinionated and insulting, and I can get good tips without the politics. Good luck with your losing battle ! GOOD-BYE
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That is good, because I can also be mean and nasty, (although normally very good natured) and it is me that is being called "Narrow Minded", not you, and for your information, I am not out to help destroy a breed, but maybe help preserve it. Now don't you think your comments are a little overboard. Get real, I own ONE (1) Border Collie, and I am "GOING TO HELP DESTROY A BREED". . That may have already been done long before me.
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"quote" - You seemed to think it was crucial information that your breeder had suggested you keep your dog intact and breed him. I said that this did not impress me, because I know puppy millers who give the same advice to their puppy buyers. that this did not impress me, because I know puppy millers who give the same advice to their puppy buyers. That to me, and anyone else is an insinuation my dog came from a puppy mill. If you didn't mean it, then why even use the word "PUPPY Millers"
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Thanks, and yes I did. What I don't care for is all the insults, about me, my intelligence, my BC's weight, and my breeder. My original post was to show off my Border Collie, who just happens to be big and beautiful, and we love him. Now I regret I ever came onto this forum, because if I have learned anything here, it is that many people are outright mean and nasty, as well as very brave when hiding behind their computers. Would they be so brave if we were face to face, I doubt it.
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Me narrow minded ? Could it be you are opinionated and insulting about something you know nothing about. How muscular is Turbo ? You don't know. His vet does. Not all weight is made up of FAT, some dogs have real good muscel mass.
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Arguing this point any furthur is useless, as some people persist in living in the past, and just cannot accept reality. I find it insulting to be told my BC came from a puppy mill "Quote" - I don't think it's as significant as you apparently do -- I'm familiar with notorious puppy millers who recommend that their puppy buyers keep their dogs intact and breed them, so the fact that a breeder might suggest it does not impress me -- but I did quote it. For your information, Turbo came from a reputable Border Collie breeder, who just happens to breed dogs that excell in agility, and all are ABCA registered. He is also very selective about who adopts one of his pups. Eileen also stated; "Quote" I said, "farmers and ranchers still need good dogs to manage their livestock." Please Check your earlier post ; "Quote" As for "narrow minded and living in the past," don't you know that farmers and ranchers still need good dogs to manage their livestock? They created this breed, and they still need it, even in the 21st century. Also, for those concerned about Turbo's weight, Quote" - "And lastly, I agree with Paula and Melanie that Turbo is too fat." His vet says for his size, he is the pefect weight, and I value his opinion much more than yours. I would much rather have a healthy dog that an malnourished, skinny, under-weight dog any day. You see, I could trade insults with everyone here that would like to take their best shot at me, but quite frankly its not worth it to me. Border Collie's are now better know for their work in Agility and other dog sports, that for their work as cattle dogs, like it or not. That my friends is reality, and it is time many of you faced up to that reality.
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Eileen, you failed to "quote me" that keeping Turbo intact was at the breeders suggestion, NOT mine. If you are going to use my quotes, please use them all. It is very easy for someone to selectively pick apart ones post, and effectively change the whole concept of that post. Also, yes the comparison of Border Collie breeding practices and docking of Springer Spaniel tails was offensive, as it was ment to be. Believe it or not, there is a strong similarity here amoung owners of both breeds. Springers were also purpose breed dogs, also from Great Britain and around the same period of time. Springers were bred for hunting game birds, meaning they were also working dogs, highly energetic, and also very intelligent. When working back then (hunting), many Springers suffered tail injuries, as a Springer has a tail much like a BC, and they got caught in brush. The solution was to cut off the tail so there would be nothing to injure, which was fine way back in the early 1800's. What is offensive now is 200 years later, the tails are still being docked on all Springers, regardless of what the purpose of the dog is. Now, what is the percentage of Border Collies being used for working sheep and cattle compared to those doing dog sports ? From what I have seen, I would say the vast majority of BC's are doing dog sports, and not what they were originally breed for. There may be quite a few still on working ranches, but even those will soon be replaced by technology, namely ATV's, and someday the BC will be out of work like the horse, and that unfortunately is called progress. The genetics of a BC will also probably change over time, as they probably already have in the past 150 years, but I have faith that the instict of working and the intelligence of the breed will carry on for a long time to come, unless they are subject to cross breeding, which is not the intention of any responsible breeder. I am not ungratefull for owning a dog that is highly intelligent, and all the other aspects of the breed, but I selected the breed for its ability in agility, not herding sheep. Also, the Border Collie was not created by farmers and ranchers, but rather by sheep herders of Scotland and Northern England, so please don't give credit to where it doesn't belong. Even Turbo's ancestry goes back to Scotland, and that is only 4 generations back, not very long. Turbo will continue to have a loving forever home with me, and hopefully go on to be an agility champion like his father and mother, as that is my goal for him, and I doubt he'll ever see a sheep except on TV.
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I have met over 20 people that own Border Collies, including breeders and trainers. Not one has a flock of sheep nor a herd of cattle. Their BC's are used for Dog Sports and other activities. I do not have any cattle or sheep, nor has Turbo ever seen one, and I doubt he ever will, but that does not mean he is not a very good, hard working and intelligent dog. I got a BC because they are intelligent, hard working, and energetic. Prior to Turbo, I owned Springer Spaniels, but it is very difficult to get a Springer with a whole undocked tail, due to almost the same narrow way of thinking. For Springers it is called Breed Standard . In todays world, it is called Animal Crulity and the practice is being banned in many countries, but unfortunately not in North America, YET! I shudder to think owners and breeders of BC,s are also so narrow minded and living in the past. If this means getting "BLACKBALLED" here, then so be it. I'd rather associate with people that are living in the 21st centuty, and not the 19th century.
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Quite frankly, I don't understand the problem with keeping Turbo intact, as it was recommended by the breeder, NOT by me. I guess there are some things I still don't understand about the BC community. I don't have a problem with keeping him intact, as he is a beautiful example of the breed, and when the time comes, it will be done only by qualified BC breeders, who are very educated and adhere to strict conditions. I haven't been on this board for very long, so maybe there are some things I don't know about. You should at least explain what the problem is, and not just tell me to edit my post. That would be helpfull. I do like the advice on gradually getting Turbo used to working, with other dogs at a distance. He is much better in our agility class if we are working away from the other dogs, and only gets distracted if one of the other dogs starts to act up, but then it gets my attention also . It is for that type of good advice that I post here. Thanks
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I am relieved to hear I am not the only one to have a BC with "ADD" (Attention Deficit Disorder) , which is what they'd call it in children. I do like the suggestions and tips, and we are doing allot of work at home. He is young, and I think testing his limits, and mine . My son has 2 dogs, a German Shepherd and a Husky, both of which are capable of putting Turbo in his place, so I think we'll be spending more quality time with the 3 dogs and see if that doesn't help. Up to now, they are rarely together. Being only 12 months, maybe it is just a stage that he'll grow out of, kind of like the "Terrible Two's" Lets hope. Just in case anyone is interested, following the breeders suggestion, Turbo is NOT being neutered, so in the future, he will be available for stud service. Dennis
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http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t132/Tu...16Turbo0008.jpg Here is another photo of Turbo, which shows his size better Dennis
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Thanks Everyone ! I know he is beautiful, and we are proud of him. I'll try to answer everyones questions. Is he a purebred, YES, and ABCA registered. His father, Clifford from Alymer, Ontario, is also very big. Of the litter of 7 puppies, only Turbo and one other pup are this size. He turned ONE on June 11. Never having had a BC before, I thought he was "normal", that is untill we attended a USDAA competition about a month ago. I couldn't believe how much smaller all the BC's were that were competing. Turbo had obedience training starting when he was 12 weeks old, and he excelled in all aspects. On a one on one basis, he is excellent, focused and ready to do whatever I ask of him. Add another dog, and he becomes a Jeckle & Hyde, with a mind on everything else but me. It is very frustrating. He started agility training here at home at 8 months, and is now good at jumps (4 set at 16"), 8 weave poles with only a 2" stagger, the tunnel, the A Frame and the dog walk. We still have a problem with the pause table, and haven't done the tetter as of yet. He will do all of this in sequence, BUT only when we are alone. Add other dogs, like our current class of 10, and I can't get him to do 2 jumps in sequence. His size could be the problem, as it is quite possible he feels he is the Alpha Male, as suggested. I will try to get the book by Susan Garret. I could use all the help I can get. If I ever get him focused, he'll be a Champion ! Dennis
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I hope I got this right. Here is Turbo, taken on his first birthday. He is a BIG boy, tipping the scales at 65 lbs, and stands almost 23" at the sholder. We are currently enrolled in an agility school, now into our 5th week. I do have a major problem with getting him to pay attention to me during class, what with all the other dogs around. He does great at home, and is real good, but everytime he gets around other dogs, obedience goes out the window. The problem is serious, and if I can't correct it, I'm afraid agility is out of the question. Any ideas or suggestions. I have tried the treats, but he'll even ignore sirloin steak and chicken when distracted by other dogs. Dennis
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Thank You Kat's Dog, I suspected that could be the cause, but I don't remember my last dog going through that stage. Of course she never progressed as rapidly as Turbo has, so there was less to rebel against. If Turbo was a child, I'd classify him as a rowdy teenager right now. It could also have been "peer preasure" from the other dogs. I will concentrate on enforcing the rules, and not let him win this battle. OH the joys of trying to outsmart a BC!
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Yesterday I encountered a problem with Turbo. He is now 10 months old, and up until yesterday, he has been fantastic in obedience. I had him over at the park, and we were working out as we do almost daily. Some other people came around with there dogs, and in no time at all, everything Turbo had learned about obedience, and listening to commands went out the window. He would not come when called, he wouldn't even look my way. He just continued to run with the other dogs. I was always proud of Turbo, as he always set an example to the other dog owners, but yesterday he was out right disobedient. Do BC's go through a stage where they test their independence ? Is this normal ? If not, any suggestions to prevent a re-occurance. As I said, this was a first, and hopefully a last breakdown of command. I don't want him running wild, out of control ever again. Dennis