G. Festerling

Camden's Mom is very wise. And so is Kristen! I always tell my riding students....train for things to go wrong. Which means, make sure your horse know what to do with a correction. And to ensure that, you introduce them during "good times". One of my German Shepherds loves, loves, loves a pinch collar..... How you ask? Simple. We paired the pinch with a treat, in preparation for possible corrections. Since we quit the training in the direction we were going (not methods but trainer) this was never an issue. But for her ob work, a tiny little bump on the pinch brought a treat. This has resulted in a dog that gets all kinds of animated when you bump her with the pinch. Which I only do anymore to show people that pairing is a super interesting subject. Also, my stockdog trainer made a comment about my dog not being a team player in our last session. I said: "Why yes, I know!" After all, this is my second, mostly positive trained dog. Focus on her engaging me to the point of extremes. Because I love to play around with things. Her finding what it is that gets her attention, treats, toys. The lines of who the boss is are not clearly defined. She is well behaved, she listens, and a joy for me to be around. But it is time to drop the news that I do over ride her when it comes to stock and that waiting for me to actually give her a command may not be a bad thing. Also, when using the old change directions method (which oh my, it is a method used by Koehler) you need to be aware of the fact that part of the idea is to stun the dog enough that he finds it in his best interest to keep an eye or ear on you to not get himself in trouble. It works wonderfully. I believe in balanced methods. I know the value of positive. I know what my reservations are with any method. It is my job. But it is also my job to teach the basic behavior first which is done many different ways and then to go from there.

I only "fast" mine when I am seeing that I am going to be running low on food for some reason. Now, I will admit, every once in a blue moon I may cut down the portions by a quarter. But that is usually when I am starting to see that I am running low! Then I may slap the label of fasting on it to make it sound like I meant to..... (obviously joking) However, I feel way to bad about them missing a meal for any reason that I certainly don't fast on purpose. But I have also not found them to have wasted away to nothing the few times they missed one.

Goofy things are they not!

yup, and getting yourself in the fray could be treacherous! You are right, I mis spoke...alliances is a much better way to put. Blame was a bad choice of words on my part.

I love Camden's Mom's reply!!! I have had cats and dogs around each other for years. 98% of the time with no issues. The other two %? Well, they take managing. My older cats grew up with my older dogs. When pups came in, they would give me the go to hell look and proceed to deal. None of my cats ever thought to attack a dog. Is it wrong to assume that 1), you moved the pup into the cats space? And 2), that the feline delinquent never lived with dogs? To me, the answers don't change the approach (and there I have to totally agree with ^^). It would however change my personal understanding and possibly improve my patience while dealing with it. And a teeny, tiny bit off topic. Cats are cats. I have never actively set out to train one. Some come super sweet and others less so. Have had a bunch if you include a lifetime of being around them. So, besides basic manners like stay out of the human food, use the litter box, minimize scaling the curtains and for sure, stay out of the dogs food bowl (which here the dogs do the training) and some minor tricks like sit and roll over.....I have not ever invested time in changing a cats basic attitude. And really, I know of no personal friend of mine that has. So, reading your post, I (and admittedly I am funny about these things) am feeling some blame slightly put on your partners shoulder? If I am on to something....watch out for it....it will only add stress.

Oh my....I have only read and followed quietly. Sorry to hear about the new hiccup. Best wishes and thoughts for your boy.

I actually think you take your dogs power to communicate effectively by interfering. All of the whole, don't force your dogs to have to visit issue aside. My old GSD was originally raised as a pet. She is an easy 100lbs. Not fat....just oversized! So she was early on told to tolerate (which was good manners for her as she never was an aggressive or intolerant dog by nature). Now that she is older, I sometimes regret her not standing up to outside dogs that are jerks. And part of it is not wanting to be "bad" in her mom's eyes.

With all of mine it is totally different. Belle hates everyone. But Thor. But they have to approach her and bug her a bit before she shows her teeth. And for some reason, she gets away with it. When my Germans show their teeth, then I am to late. But as a rule they are quite tolerant and rely on body posture more than teeth. Thor, my old Border Collie, he postures and is not allowed to meet many dogs but is good as gold about it and knows not to push it with me. His dad was a scrapper and so is he. I think it is hard to generalize since in order for "nastry comments" to escalate, the other dogs temperament plays a big part.

<3 <3 <3 That happy little smile....OMG, I am officially in <3!!!!

Well...if there are no pictures....then I don't believe it!!!! Welcome to the boards and I am so happy that you are having a great time.

^^ put so much better than what I did. Also, it is very easy to get a false sense of security. The plan is, not to leave. Something comes up....oh, he will be ok, it is only for a second....but one can get delayed. And make no mistake, I have used one. Did not dislike it. But as my dog at the time liked to enter a crate at rather high speed....this invariably ended up with dog and crate slipping across half the room before coming to a halt. Oh, and I learned not to stack that crate on another for that reason.

Not to be contrary.....but the word safe in connection with the soft crates just always gives me pause.

I have many friends in Europe. I find it always interesting too to see how much more part of life the dogs are. I don't know if better behaved is the word. Maybe it is the expectations of society if the dog is to be an active part of it. The access and everyday life. Either way, to me, it sounds like your boy is just maybe a bit overwhelmed as well. I can read some surprise and confusion in your posts. So I suppose it is fair enough for him to feel it too. A soft crate that you can fold up would not work?

Ok....this is a very scary thread in some cases. I guess I am either a simpleton or simply accept that so many creatures live in this world that are not human and I accept them as others. No less, no more, just different. Part of the puzzle. My dogs mean the world to me. They are not perfect. Their care and needs ground me. Something that human children or a good partner have not for literally over 80% of my adult life. I see them as a living being with emotions and needs that happens to be joining my path. I do for them. They do for me. Some make sure I never suffer from low blood pressure. Others provide calm in the storm. They inspire me to learn. To question. To widen my horizons. They make me look at my failures and keep me humble. It often is a lovely journey that I every once in a while I strongly perceive as more intriguing, as I get to discover another way of being and thinking and I sometimes think they enjoy these discoveries as well. By the way....I feel the same way about my horses. An acceptance of each other's sometimes not 100% aligned agendas and the agreements reached during that fun, and often not long enough, journey.

Thank you!

Check, can I come and move in? Sounds like bunches of fun.

I just feel so bad for Too and you. I hate being up against these things. Above all, praying you guys get it figured out. I am not always very good about expressing myself well in writing.

Mara reminded me of the fact that that is what we did with my girl in the beginning as well. Twice a day, rather high dose for the initial period. And I can only stress it again.....when I write "over months", I mean it. One quarter pill at a time. AND, and this is a biggy for me as I don't hardly ever have the days where things are done on a consistent basis....I went as far as trying to even space out the periods in hours. Like 4 hour blocks. To make sure I took her down super slow. Every time we cut her back it was months in between. But she is an IMHA dog that has lived with it, and not only lived but done well, for over half of her lifetime now.

I don't remember my girl, and she certainly doesn't now, ever drink much more or pee more. I can see where that would be not so pleasant. The one thing I had/have issues with is her appetite. She is more hungry.

Is the vet wanting you to keep him on a higher dose of pred? If so, why would you reduce? I said it before, despite all the negative things that could happen or have happened to my girl with pred, it saved her life. Sure, she was over 5 when she got on it. I can't remember real exact if she was 6 or 7. But she is now 15. And yes,,..hers is an autoimmune issue. So yes, we are trying to depress the system. Yes, she is sore and I am sure the pred has done its damage somewhere. But she was on it for years before I weaned her on my vets advice, over months, one quarter pill at a time. I am talking super slow. At this point she is on a quarter pill every second day. It saved her life and it is super cheap. Seems to me the weaning maybe too soon and too fast with Tio possibly?

Ok....maybe I am sleep deprived....but reading this, I honestly don't know how to respond or if I even should. But I suppose....glad to hear things are going ok.

I got my first when I was just around twenty. Knew nothing. Best dog ever. Granted, I got lucky living on a ranch and did work with horses. But sometimes, one can over think as well. Which is not to say that there is anything wrong with good preparations. Glad to hear about you having a grand time. The "issues" you listed are far from Border Collie specific.

I have all kinds of behaviors started, none perfected and no true commands just yet.....

There are a few other options than only being an open level dog to make it onto the trial field. Training first. Do it right. Take your time making your working partner for your farm. As you figure it out, go get your feet wet on the field. Then you can see how far you can or even want to go. So much time yet.

Why do there have to be productive daily sessions? I have followed your journey with Camden. You seem like a well matched and devoted pair. Quit training. Just be. Let the training be. My guess is that with careful observation, you will and can find little things to introduce in a game type way. I have previously pondered the whole shaping thing and all its "shapes". I use it. I use it with my horses. In many different ways. The best are the "sessions" that are none and essentially just kind of slipped in on the go. Things that are being offered and I simply steal and shape for my pleasure into more style. Seldom is there much structure to my shaping. I kind of take and often find myself drifting off into fun and silly places. I am so not a trick trainer. No imagination for it. But Fee has taught me a few. She showed me how to wave, sit pretty, load up, throw items at me to catch and a few other things. None are solid yet as I kind of just fall into it. Like last evening when she ended up on the living room table (long story) trying to get my attention. Since it was not working, she pulled out the newest one, sitting pretty. Which, yes, is still wobbly, all over the place and of course in the wrong spot. But we had some great fun and I had to end it.