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The Metchosin Sheepdog Trial draws quite a few spectators, many come back every year. They clap & cheer when sheep make the panels. It is a very pastoral community with the Parry Bay flock grazing in numerous small fields & farms in the area. So some people may have a personal 'connection' with the sheep. The community assoc. does a bang up concession with all the fixin's plus lamb burgers & home made mint relish. The Buchanons haul a truck load of hay bales for seating under the shade of the Garry Oak trees. It is a spectacular setting with the beach only 5 mins. away and the Juan de Fuca Straight in the background. They also have an announcer. cheers Lani

You might want to check out this group: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/DogsLovetoRun/?yguid=59751046

I like color and chrome in dogs & horses. But I wouldn't breed for it. I won't breed anything. There are too many more experienced good breeders around. World doesn't need another for a long long time. My first BC is a red dog with freckles & I love him. He has a lot of good working trial dogs before him, around him and after him. I could rhyme off a dozen good red dogs in the PNW but none were bred FOR color. They also have nice black&white relatives too. I also knew of an older brother that took a novice handler to Open. Which is important because by the time you get to Open, you may be ready for a very different dog. I am not a big fan of white heads, blue eyes or tri-colors. I have one with all 3. I got him because his mother is same way bred as my red dog and I own his father(co-owned for stud). Who happened to produce 3 nice Open level trial dogs in a previous litter. I picked him because he looked like his white headed/blue eyed sister from that earlier litter who is a REALLY nice trial dog. Hoping maybe if the puppy looked like his sister, maybe he would work like her & his father with same white head. Turns out he doesn't work much like them but is doing just fine. White headed father came to me as a started 2 yr. old. I got him because my young red dog wasn't started yet but I wanted to start trialing. I also knew about 4 of his littermates that I liked. My other dog came sight unseen. She turned out to be fairly classic black & white with a bit of tri. She also has one ear up. I want prick ears next time and freckles and red not just any red but deep dark red and medium rough coat - no slicks for me. Natural outrunner, good feel, nice pace, hunts for sheep, good listener, couch potato off sheep, good hips & CEA Clear or Carrier. LOL Lani

I do not own sheep or live on a farm - weekend hobbyist. My Dusty is 'farm bred' although his sire was a grandson of Berhow's Nick and he may have competed in a couple nursery trials. Then he spent the rest of his life working a 600 ewe flock with next to zero help from the farmer. He was treated like a tool and sometimes left forgotten in a field while the farmer went home for lunch. His mother never trialed but has siblings who did. She works a smaller flock but also by someone with no trial experience. Dusty is not a trial dog as he suffered my 'first dog learning curve'. However he can do set out almost all on his own and has moved half the flock of range sheep from the Open field to the P/N at Lacamas. He does have siblings who are successful trial dogs and work small farms. My other dog, Blair comes from trial lines that also work commercial cattle & sheep on the prairies. I also have his son, Owen whose mother never trialed but works a small herd of dairy cattle. She is the same way bred as Dusty. They only breed to replace. My other dog, Jayne has same sire as Blair and is out of a bitch sired by a trial dog that I love. She may be the best trial dog but is the last one I'd use for farm work. But she did win a silent gather tie breaker last year. ;-) So I guess my dogs are sort of 50/50: two are sired by very famous successful trial dog while the other two are out of non-trial dogs but also have some trial dogs in their pedigrees. Like what others have said, it is the individual that works like you what you need. cheers Lani

Here are a couple sites that list a LOT of Border Collie names: http://www.bcdb.info/dognames.htm http://www.usbcha.com/sheep/archive/points/open_pts.html I have two that came with their names; Blair & Dusty(which often is shortened to 'Dust' on & off sheep). I named my other two; Jayne & Owen(shortens to 'O' more off sheep than on). Owen is gaelic for 'son of nobility' as he is a son of my Blair. ;+D cheers Lani

Michael & Sport placed 45th out of 150; almost making it into the semi. I'd say that is pretty damn good. Congrats to them!

I like color that is not common(had Appaloosas, a palomino, 2 buckskins & a red roan pony over the years). I love red dogs. And freckles. I have one - I didn't choose him, he was the only one left available. I am not keen on most tri's or white heads or blue eyes but I chose a pup with all three. He does have both black & brown freckles which kinda saved him. LOL I like prick ears but only got a classic bl&wh with one up/one down; didn't choose her either, only female left. Never even saw a picture of her before she arrived. I got Blair as a 2 yr. old & wasn't keen on his big white head but now I kinda like it as he isn't getting grey in his old age. :-) cheers Lani

Thanks for the replies. Best of luck to Mike, Elizabeth and everyone at Finals. Like I said, was just curious. In the same light, I wonder if someone can report how many other 'colored' dogs will be running? Merles? Red dogs? Just a useless piece of information but interesting. cheers Lani

It is obvious that this dog is running to a high Open level so is an accomplished working dog. Just curious about his pedigree; is it all 'sport' or is there some good working dogs a generation or so back? Is this an exceptional handler who has access/$$ to top clinicians or ? Plus his Nursery dog is a well bred working dog.... Like I said earlier - just curious - no iron in the fire/don't know the guy or his dog. Just wondering from folks who have seen the dog run in CA? Or know the pedigree behind?

Yes but interesting that this dog is NOT registered with ABCA. Only with AKC. And from a breeder who is primarily an Agility/Flyball = Sport breeder.

Not trying to stir anything up, just curious if anyone knows anything about this dog? He has obviously earned points in some big trials in CA. It looks like his breeder is Contact Point but I can't find the sire/dam on her website. Burks, Michael CA O Sport(Just Do It) M 2/06 Karen Moureaux Hibs X Tilt HSAS AKC cheers Lani

I don't live on a farm but I also use all those items; binder twine, duct tape, zip ties, bungee cords. lol Lani

There is an long time Open handler in our area that has been competing successfully for over 10 years with MS. Many times qualified for Nationals. She lives on a sheep farm and takes young dogs in for training. She did have the skills before the onset of MS. cheers Lani

I have a covered deck the length of my house and attached garage at the back yard. I have 2 6' X 6' kennel runs with dog houses in them. In addition I use an X-pen to divide the other half of the deck into two 'runs'. I sometimes leave two dogs at home for a few hours in the afternoon. One other dog could be left loose in the house. The Chi gets put in a BC size wire crate if I need to leave him at home. But mostly they all come with me. When I am home, I often leave 3 BCs loose outside in fenced yard for a few hours every day...they run around and play for about an hour then sleep on the deck waiting to come in. My two youngest have been wire crated in the evening in the living room all their lives. The eldest has been a 'house dog' but for the last 3 or 4 years I crate him also; he is noise sensitive to the TV and would get out of his 'bed' constantly. In the wire crate, he is settled and happy. I just got home from being away for almost a week where they spent the majority of time in my truck topper(frequent potty breaks but also a day of hanging out in a big yard and two days at a dog trial). Pretty happy dogs tonite to be back in usual routine. cheers Lani

what Lana said. Sadly mine will never experience it. But I can appreciate and admire the dogs that do it. cheers Lani

Sadly, I caused the death of a ewe during a trial; I was getting frustrated in the shedding ring and sloppy about watching my dog circle too tight. He caused the ewe to make a sharp turn and she broke her leg. I heard it snap immediately and felt sick. A very similar thing happened during training with my young dog; she flew thru splitting the sheep and the elderly wether snapped his leg. He was splinted and survived to spend the rest of his days turned out with the ewes and lambs. I know of another death during a trial not caused by a dog but a lamb panicking in the pens like others have described. Broke it's neck, was butchered immediately and added to the handlers' BBQ dinner that nite(I was doing the cooking). Plus I know of another death at a clinic; caused by the sheep farmer/facility owner's own dog. Our Stockdog Association has an insurance fund to cover cost to replace sheep that are not due to a trial handler/dog. It has only paid out once or twice(one time a ewe disappeared into forest not to be seen again) so we have waived the fee this year. I would be considered a 'hobby trialer' as I do not own sheep. But I sure like sheep and am well aware of the risks/danger/stress we put them in. I can sit in a field and watch them for hours; springtime 'lamb races' are the best! My biggest thrill at last weekend's trial was to use my young Owen to move the entire flock from exhaust pen up the field to set out. His trial runs sucked but he did an awesome job of driving the flock. I couldn't hit the fetch panels with 4 sheep for love nor money with him, but I put the entire flock thru them. LOL cheers Lani

Great info EB and timely. McLeods' have just had another coyote attack this past week(one coyote); killed 2 lambs, injured another a couple nites ago and then killed a yearling from the working flock. So they have decided to get a llama. LGD is not an option for a number of reasons - small acreage, close neighbors, golf course backing field plus Rose would end up keeping it in the house(she admits she is no farmer lol). Anyway, they have opportunity to get a gelded adult male out of a group of 5 that were used to guard a small flock.(farm sold so dispersing animals). So any tips on introducing llama to new farm & flock would be appreciated. Plus anything special about their care? He will be eventually out with the small breeding flock(dozen or so ewes plus couple doz. lambs) during the day grazing next door on about 4 acres. Brought in to mostly secure 2 acre field at night. There is also a smaller paddock with 2 rams, another adjoining paddock with 8-9 working flock and the barn and yard. There will be minimal exposure to the BCs except when being turned out in the am and brought in at night. They lost over a dozen lambs 2 years ago to coyote and bald eagles. They have been feeding a flock of crows since then which seemed to deter the eagles. Plus did some major fencing - under ground and height. No losses last year. But now just recently a coyote found a weakness in the fence and got in. Then returned 2 nites later. So this would be a case of 'light' predator although there are a lot of coyotes around. thanks Lani

Here is a link to the correct pedigree for Johnny Wilson's Spot: http://www.angelfire.com/nd2/dimond-s/Spot_pedigree.htm Make a note that ## could be listed all by itself and it means Int.Sup.CH as well a single # means National CH. There is one for USBCHA which is a * I think. Others should be specified. Calling the Reserve(second place) dog the Int.Sup. CH (first place) is fairly obvious why that would be incorrect and completely misleading. Same with a Brace CH or Driving CH or simply 'member' of Nat.team. All important accomplishments as well. You might note that Angel's sire, a Quantum Leap? Blue, only has an ASCA Herding Started title which meaningless for a Border Collie and his CH is for conformation. I am sure your Luci is awesome...but as a breeder and on a website you should be making claims that are more correct and not misleading, however unintentional or just your opinion(s). regards Lani

On your website, you refer to "Luci is our White with Black Split face girl. She comes from AWESOME International lines. She has many many International Herding Champs all the way down her fathers side and several down her mothers as well." I searched and finally found her pedigree off of a Dallas photo as the one linked to her photo is of Angel: http://www.littlefoxxfarms.com/uploads/Luci.pdf I found 4 Nat. or Int. Ch in the first 4 generations but WOW the 6th & 7th generation had a dozen! However you list many of them incorrectly; some are Reserve Int. Ch, some are Driving CH, some are Int.Shepherds Ch. I am guessing there was no intent to misrepresent, just perhaps a lack of understanding the subtleties of sheepdog trials. It is a good pedigree but 'awesome' would be one with all those super dogs a LOT closer; like one,2 or 3 generations back. I have a nice bitch whose sire is a Canadian National CH, her damn is sired by a Reserve USBCHA CH and also a USBCHA Nat.Ch in 3rd generation. Going back another generation is a Scot.CH and Int.Sup. CH - Johnny Wilson's Spot(who is in many pedigrees). I would classify that as a 'nice' pedigree not awesome, but a whole lot more impressive than your Luci. I don't even know or care who is in her 5th or 6th generations....it has such little influence. regards Lani

It all sounds good. While waiting for my 5mos.old pup to grow up, my mentor was returned and offered me a 2 yr.old started/running N/N dog that she had bred. 100% win/win situation. I ran him in a couple N/N trials with success and moved to P/N a few mos. later. We had some success and some disaster but also moved up to Open the next year. My 'WonderDog' is now 10 and still running well. He taught me everything. The pup proved a trial wash-out lacking some confidence combined with my beginner handling mistakes. However he is an awesome farm/chore/set-out dog. Hope it works out for you, if you are keen and have the time/money to train/trial, this dog could be a dream come true. It was for me. cheers Lani

I have had an ACD in my life ever since 1975. As a pet and trail riding(horses) companion for most of that time. The first two were quite small dog aggressive. I did some herding in the kennel club program with my last two about 10 years ago. Then I got a BC and now am a hobby sheepdog trialer with 4 of them. If you do decide on an ACD, the breeder you have chosen would be my choice too although I would ask to talk to some past puppy buyers. I am not a fan of the AKC show type of ACD. Back in the day, I loved the heelers for their total loyalty, nice size, easy-care coat, smart, pretty, quiet but would protect you if needed. They do like to be near you at all times. The downside of an ACD is that they do require a strong dominant owner; they can be dog/people aggressive although not as much now as 20 years ago. They are limited in the type of herding work; they are better on cattle but can in no way compare to the all around usefulness of a BC. I always say that working my ACD was like driving a tractor, while working my BCs is like driving a Porsche. A tractor can do things that a Porsche cannot do and vice versa. Apples and oranges. I lost my beloved ACD to cancer in January and will probably not ever get another. The BCs are SO much easier to live with. All four are couch potatoes and certainly have the 'off' switch. They were so much easier to train in all respects; on sheep and in general. When my ACD was a puppy, if he was chewing something he shouldn't, I would have to actually get up and go to him, before he would stop. With my BC puppies, a soft little growl-correction from across the room was all that was needed. BCs have 'biddable' built in. ACDs have 'prove you mean it' built in. Also, my BCs are just as loyal and follow me everywhere. They would also protect me. My little bitch is a little too protective; I have to watch her closely when away from home as she views other dogs/sometimes people as danger. Better socialization as a pup would have helped so that is my fault. However my other young guy was raised the same and he is friends with the world. As others have said, best to get to know people who have each breed AND work cattle with them. The hardest thing will be for YOU learning how to train any dog to work your stock. And as an ACD friend of mine says, if you work a dog on cattle, you must be prepared to lose that dog. Cattle can injure/kill any dog. Your best bet might be to get one of each. ;-) best of luck, Lani

" Just yesterday the announcement about the Boxers being accepted into the herding tests made it rounds to me again, made me wonder if the generic herding test is now something that any average dog can be taught to do, " Not only is the herding 'test' something any obedient dog can learn, but also can 'succeed' at the Advanced level of kennel club trials. It is all about their perceived prestige of titles and HITs(High in Trial) and money. In the Canadian herding program, they have always allowed any breed to compete. AKC is just catching up. lol I have seen the Boxer 'work'; he is a lovely friendly dog and willing to do anything asked of him. But not an iota of herding instinct. He does not harm sheep. Certainly no more than many of the 'herding' breed dogs. regards Lani

Do not try to make your dog look perfect; Jack wants you to allow the dog to makes mistakes so that he can help you fix them. If people around you are socializing and chatting, move to a different place where you can hear what is happening on the field. The whole point of a clinic is to learn from the other participants, much more than just your own session. Jack is awesome, you will learn lots and have fun. cheers Lani

That said, from your description it sounds like the judge just wanted the dog to come straight through, split the sheep, and then what? Stop? Ignore the stock? Circle back around and immediately put them back together? Good point Julie. I didn`t ask for clarification as to what the dog was to do after he comes through. I think a split is usually on just 4 sheep. And I think the judge called it as soon as the dog came through. I`ll have to ask him next time I see him. Because you are right; what is the point to just split them into two groups without doing something with one group or the other. thanks for your reply, Lani