stockdogranch

When the mom is nursing, it often takes everything out of her system. So it's not at all uncommon for her hair to get really dry and brittle, and mostly break off--this usually occurs when she has pretty much finished nursing. If she is otherwise healthy, she'll grow new hair back in soon. But if she normally has allergies, then I don't know... Anna

Well said, Bill. I agree that all this NRM stuff sounds like a really circuitous route to tell the dog that counter-surfing is not an option. (Not to mention that all this treating must make for an overweight dog.) I recently had a dog in for stock training and let her hang out in the house with my dogs in the evenings. I just happened to have a view of her from the living room as she snuck into the kitchen (of course, she had no idea I could see her from there, and her sneaky approach told me to watch her carefully). Sure enough, she went for the counter (evidently she had gotten away with this at her house), and just at the precise moment she reached those front feet up to the counter, I gave a sharp "ahhht!" End of counter surfing. Period. Anna

Sounds like she's not that enthusiastic about what she's doing--maybe she just flat out doesn't care for agility, Anna

Sue R: I don't think you're overreacting at all! I agree 100%. Too many of these dogs are being bred for ALL the wrong reasons, Anna

Yes, part of makes a BC a BC is that there IS NO typical body type (at least there wasn't until the ACK got hold of 'em), and that's still true with the TRUE working lines (and I DON'T mean the candy-colored SPORT bred ones). However, after you've been around the real working ones for a long time, you can just "see" it--it's a lot like that old quote about pornography--I can't define it, but I know it when I see it! A

Nicely said, Mark. We may have rules and regulations, but, honestly, it's all a bunch of crap to make the unsuspecting public feel OK about all that we do/consume. It's the same old story--money talks... A

PYR: Great Pyrennes. A large, white, heavy bodied livestock guardian dog. That would be my guess, too, A

Glenn's "extraordinarily seductive environment" is one of the most accurate and yet poetic phrasings I've ever heard. NICE! A

"Lots" of eye goop is not normal (of course, "lots" is a relative term), and can be indicative of a number of things. Is it green and gooey? Just crusty when you see it? Maybe allergies, maybe some infection somewhere, maybe just dust/crud in the air, etc. Probably worth having the vet take a look, especially if it's been there for a while, as it sounds like it has been if you've finished a whole bag of food. A

Well said, Luisa! I would add that the primary difference in "prey drive" and "working instinct" is the word WORK. My ex's mother's Yorkie would go out and circle the sheep. We could even get her to go both ways, and she would nip at heels to get them going. They were so unsure of what in the heck she was that they'd move away from her. I have video of it, in fact. "Herding"? (Much as I dislike the word), NO. Prey drive? Yes. Most dogs will chase anything that moves. The difference between that chasing and the WORKING of the BC is that the willingness to WORK with a partner (the human, or big brain in the picture) is part of the genetics. Many people over the years have brought dogs to me for an instinct test that were "herding" the kids, the kitty, whatever. Put them on sheep--yawn, and go stand at the gate after an initial bit of chase. Most will chase--but the distinguishing factor is then, are they willing to WORK? The answer for most of the other "herding breeds" (and the Barbies and Sporties) is a resounding NO. Anna

At this age the ones that will be smooth-coated should stand out and look pretty smooth. However, some may appear to be rough-coated, but will (at some point down the road, maybe up to a year) shed some puppy coat and not be quite as rough as once thought, but will be more medium. It's pretty hard to tell for sure, other than the smooths at this point, Anna

If you think you have any kind of issues with any of the TBDs (tick-borne diseases), then please check out Tick-L. If you just google it, you'll find the list, and I can say it is the MOST helpful list I have ever been on. There are a couple of very knowledgeable vets on the list, too. Last year I had a pregnant bitch who (apparently) came down with one of the Ehrlichias (titers never did show anything), and the tick-L list helped me save her life and the 8 pups she was carrying! The bottom line is, yes, you can indeed have chronic TBD, with or without symptoms; you can have negative titers with symptoms; you can have positive titers with no symptoms, etc. AND this stuff can go on forever. And it seems to be becomming more prevalent. Anna

Well, I know that most will disagree with me, but I like to start 'em young, both with general manners, etc. and with stock. As for manners, I start the recall as soon as they are 7-8 weeks old. This is usually easy, at least with other dogs in the household, as pups will generally follow the big kids, and when I blow the recall whistle, the big dogs come running, and the pups follow. Really quickly, they get it. But, when I have a litter, even before they are outside with the older dogs, I use the recall whistle when I start giving them their first solid food or just going in to play with them. They get used to coming to it and associate it with good things. I don't bother with a sit, but start a lie down somewhere between 9-12 weeeks, depending on the maturity of the pup. As for stock, I like to see how they react to stock young (like before I send them off to their new homes at 8 weeks). However, I use my "school sheep"--seriously dog broke sheep that stay with me no matter what (often referred to as knee-knockers or velcro). I like to get them used to seeing the stock, and just having a positive experience with them. I let them chase a bit, praising them a lot when they interact with the stock. That way, when they are later ready for "real" training (the age for starting that is highly debatable, and certainly varies with the maturity of the dog and the training methods of the trainer), they have a positive memory of sheep, and so it isn't a big scary, or foreign thing. But, having said all that, each person is different with each dog, and it really depends on the maturity of the dog and the amount of pressure put on the pup. I've have great luck with a pretty laid-back training style, keeping it fun and not much pressure, with the last 4 pups I've started. Anna

In his post earlier, Bill said that preparation for trialling helped make him a better handler at the farm. Absolutely. And doing jobs on the ranch will certainly teach you to be a better handler at a trial, too. And justdogs noted that there are handlers who run dogs in open at trials who don't get "real work." Also true, and that's too bad. I think doing "real work" is one of the best things one can do in training a dog, even if the goal is "just" trialling. Even if you have to "invent" jobs for the dog to do. If you have a dog that listens, takes a down when you tell it, takes its flanks when you tell it, walks up without hesitation (which is a whole 'nother discussion), and so on, then that dog should get itself around a trial field pretty nicely, too, as long as you don't let it be sloppy at home just because it's a "ranch dog." But I see too many dogs that have no idea how to take stock out of a tight area, or don't understand that now that we've put stock into a pen of some sort, that we're not finished, and there might be other stock to go do something else with. Or dogs that don't understand that even thought there is livestock in sight, they might not need to do anything at that moment with them. We might just be hanging out or fixing a fence. So, yes, justdogs is right in that most of us probably try to breed for the same sorts of good characteristics, BUT the training/handling then makes ALL the difference. Lots of potentially really nice dogs probably do get messed up because of less than stellar handling. So, to get to the question, to choose, say, a stud dog...you have to consider to whom it will be bred--what are the qualities in the bitch, and how can you complement those? But the bottom line really is, if the dog CONSISTENTLY does what you ask, when you ask, in the way that you want it done, then for you, it's a good dog. Sorry for the rambling, Anna

Well, Chester doesn't have the 'stash, but he DOES have the drawl, and Herbert has the 'stash, so...thanks, Herbert for setting this straight, AND for pointing out that there are two diffrerent dates. I know most of you sheep folk probably don't pay attention to the cattle stuff, but it's important to our little minority ) Anyway, pay your dues by Jan. 1 and we'r eall good...and Bucket Boy, get 'yer dancin' shoes READY!!! A

Yeah--just how east is your friend? And willing to travel how far? Anna

FlashMom, Thanks for the reply. Sounds like the pup (he's in another state) had a good day yesterday--eating pretty well, etc., and then today the temp is back up over 104 again. They've got him on anti-fungal meds, but it doesn't sound like there's been lots of noticeable response to the meds. They did a tracheal wash to determine which fungus, but I do not know which one it is. Will keep ya posted, A

Some find the passing of other vshicles just too much visual stimulation. See if you can block his view of everything rushing by (towel over crate or whatever). It has helped some in the past, Anna

Hi. I've got a friend with a BC just diagnosed with a fungal pneumonia. I did some reading on the net and found lots of info. Seems there are different strains in different locations--some in the humid areas, some in arid regions (no escape). It sounds quite serious. I'm just curious--has anyone dealt with this one? :confused: , Thanks, Anna

Macky, Sorry I noticed this thread so late...I absolutely agree with Julie--do not take any indication of a TBD lightly. Tick disease is NOT "not that big of a deal." Yes, check out tick-L--as Julie says, they have a wealth of information there. One of the (many) tricky things about TBDs is that you can have symptoms and "negative" titers; you can have positive titers and no symptoms, at least until the dog has some other stressors in its life which can cause the TBD to manifest in many different ways. All the TBDs can become chronic, not just Lyme. Either way, an agressive course of doxy is the best thing you can do. And even then, it can be a crap shoot. Another thing I learned on tick-L--don't think your area "doesn't have a tick problem." Apparently they are everywhere. As for paralysis ticks, though I've never seen one here (southern CA) (and indeed, I don't really see ticks here at all, but that surely didn't stop my number one bitch from getting a TBD while pregnant), a friend in northern CA had one of his dogs come down with some weird paralysis, and when the (single) tick was removed, she recovered. Hope your dog is alright, Anna

ARGGHHH! I just now saw this thread, and this person has been the source of absolutely HORRID dogs in Socal for YEARS. Poorly kept, charges WAY too much (more than great dogs from TOP working lines), and many have been known to have really bizarre temperaments (as in people aggressive). Glad others showed you the light. Just had to add my 2 cents' worth, Anna

With pups, the works are generally short--10 minutes or so. I'll give them a rest in between, but generally do 3 works each visit. Are you working with a trainer? There's so much to explain about starting a pup--I believe it's really the most crucial part because it lays the foundation of the pup's future work, and also for its relationahip/confidence with livweatock. Approptiate livestock is a MUST for starting a pup, IMO. Anna

One possibility: if the farmer didn't know she was bred, then no one knows who (or WHAT) she was bred to. You might have some real crossbred whatevers there, so as far as BC behaviors--?? Anna

Not to mention, that just because you breed a smooth coat to a smooth coat, you won't necessarily get all smooth coats, anyway--you'll get a variety of coats in the litter. As Bill said, we breed for working traits in the hopes of making a worthwhile contribution to the breed. Anna

Well, thanks, Charlie! I, too, am in the San Diego area (north county), and have a training facility. I was at Soldier Hollow, but doing setout (with Charlie!), not competing. Web address: www.stockdogranch.com Website hasn't been updated in a looong time, though, Thanks, Anna PS Charlie is absolutely right in his "famous last words" comment...