stockdogranch

Ok. I did check it out. So the original question was "What Border Collie lines outside of yours do you find remarkable?" And this lengthy response seems to me to be a non-answer. This person says "I have not spent much time analyzing lines"..."trying to assess a line, therefore, is quite challenging"; both of these statements say nothing at all. Is it a good thing that this person is telling us that she is basically ignorant of the great working lines? If you look at the top breeders and handlers (who really *are* breeding for the work, just not saying they are, as this person seems to be doing), they have indeed spent a LOT of time studying the lines, and can tell you quite a bit based on those hours of studying. So I guess I am not sure what the point is here--what exactly are we supposed to gain from this "interview"? A

Yes, T--cattle sorting totally different from sheep sorting. A

Yes to what Donald says, about both the corner and the dog not being on its feet. I like a gate that is not in a corner, as it gives the sheep more room to either get through the gate or get held back. Always make sure you open the gate TOWARD you, as you stand on the same side as the sheep. If the gate has any sort of latch you can throw once you have it opened toward you, that is even better, as it keeps them all from getting through if they start pushing too hard on it (which is usually caused by the dog having gotten up and pushing on them too hard). As they start to flow toward and through the gate, you can use your body to block them; you can also take a hand and turn a head to keep the ones you want inside with you from escaping. As they are flowing through, you can open the gate more or close it down a bit more to make sure they are not all trying to jam through there at once. With a young dog just learning to do this, the dog will most likely keep wanting to get up, as the sheep are leaving so it thinks it needs to do something. So with a youngster, I might keep repeating in a soft voice, "lie down, lie down..." as I am letting sheep out the gate to remind the dog that it just needs to stay put. If the dog gets up, I will close the gate and go to the dog making sure it is lying down again before continuing. The main thing to remember, is that while you are doing a job, the bigger job is that you are training your dog to do proper work. So never sacrifice the dog doing sloppy work just to get things done. So if the dog gets up and is bopping around, but the sheep you wanted to go out the gate go, you let that go. That will bite you in the butt later every time. My 2 cents, A

With a house full of bitches for many years, I have been through this more than once. The first time, I didn't stop it early on, and ended up selling the younger of the two (she was a great working dog) when she was almost 3 (the older one was always my main working dog). A number of years later, I had a new pup (granddaughter of the older one) who at 8-10 weeks of age started to challenge the older girl. I gave them both a come-to-Jesus meeting, and all was well for a couple of years. Fast forward to the younger one at 3 years old, and grandma at 13. The younger one was good up to this point, but with grandma now much less in charge, she started to beat up on grandma (who, despite her age, will not back down). So now I have to keep them apart when I am not home to supervise. When I am home, they are fine, as grandma (now 14) just sleeps most of the time. But if I am out of the house for any length of time, the younger one is locked in a room. A

As others have said, bitches who fight like this will only get worse. You will absolutely have to keep them separate ALL THE TIME. Even though they may appear to get along most of the time, you never know when something will happen and one, most likely the GSD, as she is bigger, will kill the other. So, if you can't/won't rehome one, then you must manage it ALWAYS. Many of us have been in this situation, and we don't say to rehome one lightly, A

I agree, Sue. That has always been some of the best dogwork ever! I should think the prairie will give us similar opportunities, although there won't be as many sheep--at least for a year or so :-) A

Julie--THANKS so much for the washable link! I always hate myself when I break down and use pads when I have pups (like now) in the x pen because they are as evil as disposable diapers. It never occurred to me that they would make washable ones! YAY! (But they are pricey), A

I would think fairly easy to find. There are many who raise and train up their dogs to a solid started level and decide they just aren't the right dog for that person, or maybe not enough dog for whatever their purposes. Dogs that I've raised to that level and then sold on have enough on them to understand not to mess with little dogs (or even rabbits when out walking). Fantasize away! A

Another thing you might consider is stem cell. I have a vet here in SoCal whose business is doing stem cell therapy on dogs, but he also does this nationwide. Usually, they will do one procedure where they collect fat from your dog, send it to this guy, then he sends back the stem cells. They then inject them into the joint. He is also working on an FDA clinical trial right now that eliminates that first step--he has a bank of cells that he uses, so there is only one procedure to inject those cells. The primary issue he is using this for right now is arthritis and other joint problems. Right now the hesitation that some vets have with stem cell is doing the 2 procedures, but by all accounts stem cells do seem to be a very good thing, A

Hi. The only reason you would need the registration is if you were to breed them, which, given their ancestry, you would not ever want to do. You can work them on stock and enter any USBCHA (or NCA if you work cattle) trials with no registration. So, just have fun with them! A

^^That would do it! A

Gideon's Girl--sheep feed? I just feed mine alfalfa when there is no grazing. If my alfalfa stash is running really low, and there are a lot of lambs hitting the ground (like right now), I sometimes supplement with some oats--just a little, as price-wise, they are providing more nutrition than trying to put down even more hay. A

GentleLake--exactly A

My original comment had to do with the OP saying "I'm a breeder and will be breeding to a smooth coat for the first time..." Apparently that part of the original post has been removed. So, my response had little to do with the smooth coated part, but rather the breeding part. For those on here who know me, all of mine are smooth or mostly smooth, A

Where's the popcorn-eating emoticon?

^^What she said! A

Julie--yes, I know they have used them for cattle over there. For many years I got my training calves from an old Scotsman down the road; he's 82 now, I believe. Anyway, he would always tell me that when he was a wee boy, his dad would use the dogs on both sheep and cattle for "the co-operative" (imagine that said with a thick accent). And when he came here to the US, he worked at dairies and always used dogs. A

I've got a house full of petite girls and one petite male who all work cattle. I think it depends on the person; yes--I know of some who always ask for the biggest male in the litter. But I see all sizes working cattle, and I think a quick little thing can get out of trouble faster. I see them get in, take that heel, and get out before the calf knows what hit. As for, will the border collie become a cowdog in the US? I actually think the working border collie in the US has been a cowdog for some time. You just don't see them or hear of them because they are not out there trialling, but are at home working every day. Someone recently was talking about numbers of dogs registered with the ABCA and how many are not known trial dogs, but just working dogs, and the majority of them are working cattle. Not sure how true that may be, but just given the numbers of ranchers who show up every year at Red Bluff seriously looking for a dog, and speak of having used dogs for many years, makes me think there may be something to this. A

Many people working their dogs on cattle don't necessarily trial, but may work their dogs on relatively large groups of cattle that are not dog broke at all. While a good cowdog does not need to bite all the time, it *does* need to be willing to hit both ends, and do so properly. So, when someone is advertising a dog for sale, potential buyers need to see that the dog will bite readily, hence, the popular pics of lots of biting. A ETA I see that Deb posted while i was writing...

I've seen some pups do that at about that age, and have been worried about hips, too. Even had one xrayed some years back. Hips were fine on the rads. Turns out the pup (whom I did not have from tiny) had just never really had an opportunity to really stretch out and run any distance, and had not yet fully learned how to run. A little time running in pastures and the bunny hop went away, A

I'll stick to what I said earlier: get a well-bred (for work) pup out of parents with good temperaments, and don't be an idiot in raising the pup, and you should be fine. I very recently rehomed a year old bitch who had been sent to me for stock training. She was too soft to make a stockdog--she kept leaving the field when asked to do anything. If she was allowed to crash through the stock on her terms, she was happy, but could not handle any direction at all. Anyway, despite all that, she is now very happy in her new home as a companion/pet. She has a great *pet* temperament--loves people, will happily do anything for food or treats, and wants to be with her new people. So, bottom line--she is well bred out of good working parents, and even though she couldn't cut it for real work, she is a very nice dog to be with. A

I think you kind of answered your own question :-) Pick a pup from working parents who have solid temperaments. A

Does Bukkie get to trial? A

However one defines "confidence," I would not breed a dog that I thought lacked it. Pressure sensitive to a person is not my favorite, but I can deal with it to some extent. Completely leaving training does not work for me--there are too many dogs who will not leave. But pressure sensitive to stock? Or just in general lacking confidence around the stock? Nothing I want to breed at all. But, I am looking for dogs to both do real work with a decent sized flock of somewhat stubborn sheep and also to work cattle. Lack of confidence does not cut it at all on cattle, for me. Just my 2 cents, A

Time of year really depends. For me, winter is a better time to have a litter of pups, as our primary trialling time is summer: NCA cattle Finals are early June, and the Wyoming series of trials is early August. So, breeding in the spring means that I wouldn't be in a position to travel then. But for others, it depends on their ranch or farming schedule and how much they may need the bitch who is to be bred for work. A