stockdogranch

Excellent! A

I think if you are brand new, then it can confuse the heck out of a person. But if you've been working dogs for a while, and have a bit of a clue, then it's just like going to a lot of clinics--you can always learn something; sometimes you learn that a particular method is not for you, and sometimes you pick up something really useful. The main thing to me is that you know enough to really evaluate the usefulness of what method or exercise is being used. A

I do not judge sheep trials often, but have done it enough. And I have also spent a fair amount of time scoring cattle trials. I tend to do both standing because I can see better, often needing to move at least several feet, during each run, to watch a particular part of the run. And I am not young, but I get it done A

Am I understanding this correctly--you bike for 5-7 miles or Frisbee for a solid hour, and think she should run full out the whole time? I wouldn't expect a dog to do that. That seems excessive to me, but since I don't so those sorts of activities, I honestly don't know. I don't bike or run with mine or throw stuff for them, but when they are working for a long time, they will pace themselves. To me it seems that mine generally prefer a long trot, when it is left up to them. Cranky afterward--I would guess she's sore. A

Geonni, I, too, have been following. Something that came up a few pages back was that a couple of people suggested that if you were not so far away, they might have you farmsit. So, following along with the dream theme, and the idea that Maid came into your life to help *you* make some changes, perhaps you could become a travelling farmsitter. I'll bet you could pretty well fill a lot of your year doing just that. After a successful gig or two, word gets around, and there you go. Now, certainly, you would have to get yourself up to speed with sheep & dogs to some level to be able to do so, but for most people who will be gone for a week or so for vacation (do livestock people ever really take a vacation?) or to big trials (more likely that's why they'd be gone), we generally try to have the livestock set up so that there is minimal work involved (in other words, we try to not have the person moving stock miles to and from pastures, etc.). For example, last June I was gone to NCA Finals for a good week. A friend came and stayed; she is not a livestock person, and is almost getting used to a houseful of border collies, but she is always up for adventure. I left her with a willing dog (and three or four others, too) and she did fine using that dog to get the sheep from the night pen into the e-net and back each day (not a huge distance, but still, far enough that things could have gone south pretty quickly), and even got them out to graze for a bit on several occasions. There were also the laying hens to contend with, and she did just fine. Anyway, it might be a bit (for livestock people, probably a small bit lol) of extra income, you'd get to see lots of cool places, and your dog could get some real work in. Just a thought, and trying to see other options. A

Just curious, as I don't have a dog in this fight, so to speak. Why is noone naming this person? Perhaps if the person's name were known, it could help some poor unsuspecting soul to avoid the situation, A

^^ Yes--this. That is what prompted me to quit tenting it at trials. I decided the night I crawled into my tent to find my bedding soaking wet that I was just too old for that shit, and when I got home the next day, I bought a small trailer. I have never looked back. I LOVE my trailer! A

Yes--people come and go all the time. Some will only show up in time for their class, or leave right after it is over. Dog trials are pretty casual events. Liz has some good pointers as far as parking, etc. The biggest, and she points it out, is not to try to talk to someone who appears just about to run. And after someone's run, give them a few minutes, too, especially if it was not a stellar run A

Love the Pink Mountain chair! My old blue was was not quite that shabby, but very close! A

Really!? They moved? To where? Well,they would not necessarily top my list to recommend anyway :-) A

Sitting in whatever chair is available at a cattle trial is the norm. Generally the loungey ones are highly sought after, and it becomes a bit of a joke to jump into one when the owner is running his/her dog. And yes, asking for it back or finding another empty one and using it is perfectly ok. Asking the whole crowd to move chairs to keep in the shifting shade under the EZ up is also normal and generates some good-natured grumbling. Quite a few years back, I was hauling an old school blue webbed chair (remember those?) around, as it was upright and comfy for a bad back and easy to get out of for bad knees. (I don't even know when or where it came from, as it was likely ancient when I acquired it.) I accidentally left it at a friend's trial in Nebraska (I was still living in SoCal at the time), and when I went back a year later, there it was! Everyone teased me about it, as it was getting pretty old and rickety, but it still worked, so I kept dragging it around. Finally at a trial in Wyoming, after more teasing about my old chair, a friend asked me to get up, and took my poor old chair and threw it into the nearby dumpster! He then presented me with a (slightly used) loungey one. I love the loungey one, but it is heavy to schlep around a lot. But it still goes with me to trials now (especially if I feel a nap coming on). I also take one like the one Gloria posted. I still miss that old blue chair, and we even talked about it last week at a trial! A

You didn't like the contact I gave you? A

I agree, Julie--for practical work, the dogs need to be wherever they need to be, and often, like when dog breaking cattle, they need to be on the same side dealing with the same issue (whatever that issue is). A

Yes--I've run some of those buddy classes before (on cattle), and they are fun. I remember one many years ago where an Open handler/dog team was paired with a Novice handler/dog team. We had to decide ahead of the run who was to do which obstacles, and it was a blast. I like when we have different things to do at trials. This past weekend was a good example... We had a "double lift" the second day of a cattle trial. Once the first set were picked up and taken through (or missed) the fetch panels, then they waved for the second set to be set. They were set from the same spot, and we did not have to do specified directions of outruns, so it was not a "true" double lift, but still we had to stop the dog, give a look back and bring the second set to join the first and complete the course with the combined groups. It was fun. We usually do a true double lift for the Final go of Open at our NCA Finals (which will be held at Meeker this June). Sue, I believe for a true brace, each dog has to stay on its own side, starting with the outrun. So no crossing or doing the other dog's work. On cattle we never get quite that tricky, but running two together is a lot of fun. A

I used to use two dogs for setout, doing as Julie describes: one to push, the other to flank and keep the sheep from scooting too far downfield. I always put mine of different flank whistles, so I have four different sets of whistles I use. When a dog is young, I decide which set to pair them with. Although I haven't had a pair of dogs that work well together for some years, I am hoping that will change soon. We occasionally have a brace class at a cattle trial, although we don't usually run it strictly as a "true" brace with the proper rules. A

Not fair to the monkeys; demeaning to the border collies. A

Most excellent news! A

I know we've been down this same road many, many times over the years, and so, I had not planned on entering into the discussion yet again. However, when I read the statement that "Corrections make no sense to me with dogs," what immediately came to mind is a young dog that I have been struggling with (stock training, of course). But she is a dog, and I cannot imagine dealing with her with no "corrections" (however you want to define them). I will add that she is fine off of stock, as far as general behavior and manners and all; it is only on stock that the issues appear. She had some injuries (from being too rash on cattle) when she was younger, so she is a bit behind age-wise in her training. She got bigger and faster than I was apparently able to deal with. What she was doing was this: she would be working along (with me still at a close distance to her because she does not know much, and also because she cannot handle herself) ok, then suddenly (I'm sure in her mind the sheep did something to make her think they were going to get away) she would dash around to the head, single one off, grab it by the throat, and hang on while trying to take it to the ground. Sometimes she succeeded. So, I am really curious: how on earth do you suggest I deal with that with no corrections? Let her kill sheep while waiting for her to "figure out what is desired"? Honestly, I know (until quite recently) she did not give a rat's ass as to "what is desired." A

I'll just second what Julie says about Tick-L and Gil.Ash's page. I went through a suspected TBD (it never did show positive in bloodwork, but a solid LONG round of Doxy fixed things completely) a number of years ago with a bitch about 10 days from whelping. Tick-L was a HUGE help in saving not only my best working dog, but also saving her 8 pups! The one I kept from the litter was named Tikkle (for Tick-L). She is now 9 years old and still going strong. She just finished 2nd at a cattle trial over the weekend. Hope things work out for you, A

Hi, Donald. Maybe it's a regional thing, because barking dogs at cattledog trials are also considered rude, at least in this part of the country. The only time I hear dogs barking at cattle trials is sometimes when the owner/handler is competing with another of his/her dogs, and the ones tied out at the pickup hear the whistles...or maybe young pups who bark when someone walks past their pickup just because they haven't quite figured out the program yet, A

And I'll agree with Julie--when I have a pup with really strong eye, cattle are great to teach them to be freer moving. It is because they don't flock so well that the dog has to stay on its feet an do more lateral movement to keep things together, A

Geonni--GOOD FOR YOU!!!! Keep up all the positive stuff! A

Directional commands and walk up are all done on stock, and need to be, as they are done from the dog's position relative to the stock. Before going to stock, the pup needs to know its name, have a decent recall (even with distractions, although that will all go out the window the first few times on stock), and be able to take a correction. The last is almost more important than the others. That's it, A

Despite the negative tests--TBD. They will often have symptoms and respond positively to Doxy even though the tests say negative. The best source for info on this is a group called Tick-L that you should be able to find online. Keep up the doxy. A

Well, I'll jump in and say that the person interviewed is "not someone who would...fit our definition of responsible." If we were talking about any of the many breeds that make wonderful pets, then the person is probably responsible. But we are talking about border collies here, and border collies are a purpose-bred dog--they are bred for a very specific purpose and that purpose is "the work." Breeding for anything else is simply not responsible breeding. If you have now read the "read this first" at the top of each page, then that should help you to understand. A