red russel

excellent.

You are right in the middle of some of the best trialers and trainers in North America. Patrick Shannahan, Dianne Deal, and Don Helsley are all in Caldwell. Lavon Calzacorta and Rob Miller are in the area as well. If you would like contact information please pm me and I'll get you in touch. dave

My Tip is the exact dog spoken of here... courageous but lacking confidence. He will attempt to move difficult sheep but only because I ask him to. He won't quit, keeps coming back at it but clearly undermines his own efforts by his lack of confidence. We are successfully because we work on his confidence in himself and our partnership regularly. He knows I have his back and can gain confidence from me. I have a strategy of picking dogs at 12 - 5 months of age so I can get some idea of what the package might be. Given this discussion I may stick with it! dave

Method makes sense to me. Methods aside, I always assume that if I'm going to physically intervene in a dog fight I'm going to get bit. Saves me the worry. dave

Eileen. Thank you! Your post was absolutely of no help whatsoever but incredibly informative at the same time!! Thank you! You helped me understand a bit what I don't know and, more importantly, helped me understand that I don't know it because we don't know it yet. Very insightful. CMP. I get the sense that I want to understand what you are saying in your post but, forgive my ignorance, I have no idea what you are saying. Can you translate your post for me? Perhaps some perspective and context for your terms? I'm assuming that "removed from the breeding pool" doesn't mean summarily executed by firing squad but after that your post is a puzzle for me. Again, please forgive my ignorance. dave

This doesn't sound like a training trial. Respect the trial and respect your dog. If you feel you and your dog are ready to perform competently at a National trial then absolutely go for it. If not there is no value to anyone when we throw our dogs into the deep end when they are not ready. dave

Penning became a topic in the Judging Clinic group on facebook so I pulled this video together. https://vimeo.com/107892081

go backwards a bit. only ask for a lie down when you know your dog has control of it's stock. when you are 100% sure you will get the down. don't ask for off balance downs or downs when the sheep are "escaping." if you wouldn't bet a $20 bill on the down, don't ask for it. reinforce what it is when it makes complete sense to your dog. after you have it there you can progress to downs that make a bit less sense... off balance downs. don't rush. if it doesn't make sense to your dog you are going to continue to degrade the behavior and you might both lose trust in each other. your dog thinks you are crazy because the sheep keep escaping and you don't trust your dog's down. don't use your down as a crutch. things get going too fast... perhaps a bit western... we tend to rush to a down. often not needed and can be detrimental. also we are often missing training opportunities because we rush to a down. anticipate what is about to happen and prepare yourself with a plan to take advantage of the situation as a training opportunity. just some thoughts.

Thank you. we had a good trip.

Ron Enzeroth at Soldier Hollow, Meeker, and the Finals: These are all preliminary round runs. Ron and his dog Mick were 2nd at Soldier Hollow, won Meeker, and 3rd at the Finals. Great team and on fire. Dave Imas and Tip. High scoring run at Meeker. Preliminary round. Scott Glen and Bliss. Winning DL run at Soldier Hollow.

apologies for the late response. on the road for the last three weeks. Tips flanks came from the factory as they are. he can be open or slicey depending on where he is and what we are doing. Once he understood the job he would provide the flank he thought appropriate to get it done. His flanks on the fetch are very different than at the pen. I offer a bit of fine tuning here and there but, basically, I just got out of his way. dave

Bill Berhow & Coal https://vimeo.com/104515932 Dave Imas & Tip https://vimeo.com/104308515

not that the answers are wrong or inaccurate but keep in mind you have posed a question to a like minded audience. dave

Hi Bill, have you spent any time with a trainer? dave

I think a lot depends on the dog and the environment. I have one dog that is pretty successful, 9th at the Nursery Finals, winning and placing well at difficult open trials, manages my flock at home come chore time... sleeps in the bed and is generally my companion dog. He is also a relatively soft dog that is very interested in partnering with me... he requires little to no pressure when training or working. I don't have to play Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde with him. I have a youngster that is showing he needs an extreme amount of structure leaning much more towards he is in his kennel if he isn't training or doing something very specific with me. They both lead very different lives... The whole "tool" thing is a fascinating conundrum for me. I have 3 dogs... I would only have one if I wasn't working stock. My main dog, Tip, is my companion dog... I don't treat my other two as tools but they certainly aren't pets either. Trainers that have 10 - 15 - 20 dogs... the relationship they have with their dogs must be very different... clearly they aren't all companions. Of my friends that have more dogs than I can count on two hands I've not seen dogs mistreated or not well cared for... they just aren't pets. I can only guess that they would not have all those dogs if it wasn't their livelihood and they have to be in a mindset that allows them to either sell dogs worthy of it or place dogs that aren't going to make it. It seems to me a different reality. I don't know that we can compare or judge them when we might be standing on the other side of the fence. I can also imagine it might be confusing for a dog to go from laying on the couch, watching TV with us while eating bon bons to going out to the pasture and having significant pressure applied because they are making a mess of a fetch... sorry... it seems i have more questions than answers. dave

please enlighten the ignorant... (me) exactly what does one expect in a health guarantee? i've never seen one. should be quite a few excellent dogs and breeders in Colorado. and and... if you are looking for a working dog you might consider something between 12 - 18 months of age. you will have a better idea if it is healthy, better idea of temperament, much better idea if is keen and it will be showing you how it works by then. dave

in your video it sounds like you are asking her to lie down and she is getting off contact. also looks like she isn't really getting to work her sheep so, when off contact, is hesitating to get up and get back engaged... kind of like "what's the point if I don't get my sheep..." she isn't getting to work much and isn't really learning from her mistakes because she isn't really getting a chance to make any. your sheep are pretty broke so you have to be creative when working with them to give your dog a chance to engage and find balance. we have all been where you are now... just need a bit of help and guidance from a good hand working with you. dave

how does she hold a line on a fetch? dave

have you found an experienced hand to provide lessons or take you under their wing? where are you located? perhaps we can point you in the right direction. dave

Yup. What Julie said. Stop with the lie down. Also... ask her to manage her own sheep. Help to to know how to pace her stock and move them along in a workmanlike fashion without lying down. Dogs can release pressure from stock without it as they gain more experience. I have a young dog that tends to lie himself down when he realizes he is too close to his stock. I like the way he is thinking and am now helping him get a better feel of the sheep's bubble and how to manipulate it. I ask him to "get up" when he lies down. maybe a little "ah ah" softly... barely a correction. don't want to amp him up or think he has done something wrong. I love where his mind is at... just helping him be in the same mindset while on his feet. If i put the responsibility of good work on my dog instead of me managing his position with a "lie down" he will learn what i'm looking for and realize his own potential. It is his job to bring me sheep correctly, not mine. I'll help him get set on a line then it is his to hold that line and pace correctly. It is fun when you see the "oh shit! i can do this!" look on a young dog's face.

one of the most common challenges with lie down is that it can be used as a crutch. novice handler or trainer not really prepared for what is happening or things are happening too fast... the default command is lie down. often to the detriment of a learning opportunity. what we may want is our dog to be thinking, reading their stock, treating them appropriately... we don't really want a down but want the dog to work or behave differently... perhaps measure themselves against the stock a bit, take a bit of pressure off. often, in those situations, what we ask for is a down. sometimes folks ask for a down from a conditional perspective... this can create challenges when the handler REALLY wants their dog to stop. not conditional. not negotiable. STOP!!! we have all watched and heard folks asking, begging, screaming at their dogs to lie down all the way down the fetch to no avail... i think this is often caused by folks allowing to much gray area with their dog while laying their starting foundation. i get allowing my solid open dog to make decisions 700 yards away. i encourage it and train for it. but when he started out, down meant down. not negotiable. the best advice i've gotten is don't ask for a down unless you really mean it and if you ask for it, get it. my apologies... my response feels a bit disjointed.

pups in washington available here: http://www.wastockdoghandlers.org/#!classifieds/ck7w trials available here: http://www.wastockdoghandlers.org/#!coming-trials/cq56

Jim... I had this long diatribe written regarding your comment about the inevitable contact between one's child and dog but decided not to be an ass and deleted it. I understand what you are saying and understand that never and always are difficult to attain... shit happens... We work with a lot of reactive and aggressive dogs... shit happens. But when it comes to one's child's safety I would suggest a quote... Do or do not. There is no try.

you will tire your dog much more quickly, efficiently, and with positive result if you work it's mind. training, a job, i'd stay away from the ball if it isn't too late already... OCD border collies can be annoying as hell. dave

If in an accident it is much safer for first responders to manage your dog if it is in a crate. Allows some protection and keeps your dog from running away after the accident.