Brildwn

I'm not here to talk about this...I'm here to talk about the poll etc. If you want to know visit my site and read up! E-mail me privately to keep from clogging up this thread.

Comet worked 1000 head of cattle, i had nothing to do with his training a neighbor asked if he could train him up an use him, why would I protest?? I knew the guy. I'v never had anything against herding, all I meant was that I will never breed for solely conformation. But Back to the poll!

Actually, it's called copy and paste And it makes things easier when you want to say the same thing to many groups of people. If that plain old sentences amuses you enough to make you want to keep it and read it to yourself when you need a giggle, be my guest. Whatever floats your boat Cheers, Lauren

Someone mentioned that there is an online poll with 600 signatures of Border Collie people against recognition. BUT I personally know of several people who have voted in this poll who do not even have a Border Collie!!! I also know several who have voted who have breeds such as GSD's and Collies that they SHOW. So It's is not much different from the CKC's poll except you don't have to pay the $50 dollars to be a member I know someone from down my way who actually has the nerve to e-mail me consistently telling me that the Border Collie shouldn't be in the CKC, YET they have a BIS winning GSD and a show Collie sitting in their house. If they really cared they would stop showing all of their dogs in CKC events! I am also really, truly sick of hearing working people blaming the OZ BC's for bringing in all the health problems. I hate to break it to you folks, but the OZ dogs are from the EXACT same dogs that your dogs originated from. It is also a well known fact that it was Wiston Cap (ISDS 3154), A WORKING BORDER COLLIE MIGHT I ADD, that brought epilepsy and CEA into the breed. He's behind almost all the BC's of today. There are quite a few working BC's in my area with hip problems, but their breeders who reg. with the CBCA don't hip test or do any testing at all. As for TNS it is very rare and hard to recognize, many of you would never even realize that it was in your lines as the pup could fade at a few days old, and you would never know it even had it or that it was even in your lines. But of course you refuse to test for it because working BC's don't have it, I'm not sure how you would figure that without testing. On another note....WHY DO THE CBCA MEMBERS EVEN CARE IF THE CKC ALLOWS US TO COMPETE IN THEIR EVENTS??? *Non of you have to join in, your pups are all on contracts saying that they can't be shown in conformation, you don't need to participate in any of the events if you don't want to. *You can have a contract saying that any dog you sell cannot be bred to anything that was ever shown if you so decide (silly as that is). *Your not being forced to compete under the CKC and your lines will not include OZ BC's if you don't want them to. It's up to the breeder! * The only difference would be that people who wanted to compete in these events would have the option to do so. Is that so bad? Nobody will be changing the Border Collies that you are breeding. Anyone interested in conformation will probably have a OZ BC anyway. They aren't changing your lines. They will be showing a dog that is already from OZ lines. All of you can continue to go about your way as you have been in the past, were not trying to take over the breed. We just want to participate in CKC events and if one of them happens to be conformation then so be it. It will be rare to see one of your working line bred dogs in the ring anyway. What are you worrying about?? Were not changing anything that hasn't already been changed. I believe that the changes were for the better, but thats another story! YES, you might loose puppy buyers who decide that they want a VERSATILE BORDER COLLIE (I can't stress this enough)instead of a pure working border collie. But that shouldn't matter because your not in it for the money right??? Maybe you should spend that money that you are planning on using to sue the CKC on educating your members on health testing, as their is not ONE CBCA breeder in my area who health tests and when asked about it they have no clue what I am talking about, yet, they breed under the CBCA! The CBCA registers how many dogs a year? And how many actually work? How many registered dogs are bred who don't work??? The only events in my area are with the CKC...We just want to participate in CKC events, NOT steel the breed, or change what you have been breeding for. We should have the freedom to breed for the characteristics that we feel are important for the breed, without having all of you hounding over our shoulders and insulting our dogs. I have been told that, the one Border Collie that I have that is AKC registered is not as "Border Collie" as my CBCA registered dogs, solely because of her breeding. I'm sorry, but she is a lot smarter and shows more instinct, and her daddy is a straight OZ import. I'll be damned if someone tells me that she is not a Border Collie. My others are CBCA reg. their mom is from a known WORKING Border Collie person there in Alberta. I have seen many so called (GOD FORBID) "Barbie Collies" who were excellent herding dogs. Mind you, I have nothing against herding and hope to pursue it with my dogs some day, I have a trainer here who actually dosn't sneer at me when the seem my border collie isn't from all working lines. I wouldn't give the CBCA 1 cent of my money. If they truly cared about the breed all dogs would be in the B pedigree category until they proved their working status. Currently, any dog who is out of working lines gets an automatic A pedigree and those who are not are B. Thats like saying if I'm Native I get an A pedigree even if I can't hunt but If I'm white I can only get an A pedigree if I can hunt. You have to be born into it to receive it, they should be judging all dogs on their own merits and not their pedigree. So if both my parents were models I'm automatically born one too...There is something very wrong about that idea! JMHO Kind Regards, Lauren Bellaclan Border Collies

Maybe you can pass this on to everyone. Dr. Dodd's vaccination protocol is now being adopted by ALL 27 North American veterinary schools. I highly recommend that you read this. Copy and save it to your files. Print it and pass it out at dog fairs, cat shows, kennel club meetings, dog parks, give a copy to your veterinarian and groomer, etc., etc. Get the word out. ~~~~ VACCINATION NEWSFLASH I would like to make you aware that all 27 veterinary schools in North America are in the process of changing their protocols for vaccinating dogs and cats. Some of this information will present an ethical & economic challenge to vets, and there will be skeptics. Some organizations have come up with a political compromise suggesting vaccinations every 3 years to appease those who fear loss of income vs. those concerned about potential side effects. Politics, traditions, or the doctor's economic well being should not be a factor in medical decision. NEW PRINCIPLES OF IMMUNOLOGY "Dogs and cats immune systems mature fully at 6 months. If a modified live virus vaccine is given after 6 months of age, it produces an immunity which is good for the life of the pet (ie: canine distemper, parvo, feline distemper). If another MLV vaccine is given a year later, the antibodies from the first vaccine neutralize the antigens of the second vaccine and there is little or no effect. The titer is not "boosted" nor are more memory cells induced." Not only are annual boosters for parvo and distemper unnecessary, they subject the pet to potential risks of allergic reactions and immune-mediated hemolytic anemia. "There is no scientific documentation to back up label claims for annual administration of MLV vaccines." Puppies receive antibodies through their mothers milk. This natural protection can last 8-14 weeks. Puppies & kittens should NOT be vaccinated at LESS than 8 weeks. Maternal immunity will neutralize the vaccine and little protection (0-38%) will be produced. Vaccination at 6 weeks will, however, delay the timing of the first highly effective vaccine. Vaccinations given 2 weeks apart suppress rather than stimulate the immune system. A series of vaccinations is given starting at 8 weeks and given 3-4 weeks apart up to 16 weeks of age. Another vaccination given sometime after 6 months of age (usually at 1 year 4 mo) will provide lifetime immunity. CURRENT RECOMMENDATIONS FOR DOGS Distemper & Parvo "According to Dr. Schultz, AVMA, 8-15-95, when a vaccinations series given at 2, 3 & 4 months and again at 1 year with a MLV, puppies and kitten program memory cells that survive for life, providing lifelong immunity." Dr. Carmichael at Cornell and Dr. Schultz have studies showing immunity against challenge at 2-10 years for canine distemper & 4 years for parvovirus. Studies for longer duration are pending. "There are no new strains of parvovirus as one mfg. would like to suggest. Parvovirus vaccination provides cross immunity for all types." Hepatitis (Adenovirus) is one of the agents known to be a cause of kennel cough. Only vaccines with CAV-2 should be used as CAV-1 vaccines carry the risk of "hepatitis blue-eye" reactions & kidney damage. Bordetella Parainfluenza: Commonly called "Kennel cough" Recommended only for those dogs boarded, groomed, taken to dog shows, or for any reason housed where exposed to a lot of dogs. The intranasal vaccine provides more complete and more rapid onset of immunity with less chance of reaction. Immunity requires 72 hours and does not protect from every cause of kennel cough. Immunity is of short duration (4 to 6 months). RABIES There have been no reported cases of rabid dogs or cats in Harris, Montogomery or Ft. Bend Counties [Texas], there have been rabid skunks and bats so the potential exists. It is a killed vaccine and must be given every year. Lyme disease is a tick born disease which can cause lameness, kidney failure and heart disease in dogs. Ticks can also transmit the disease to humans. The original Ft. Dodge killed bacteria has proven to be the most effective vaccine. Lyme disease prevention should emphasize early removal of ticks. Amitraz collars are more effective than Top Spot, as amitraz paralyzes the tick's mouth parts preventing transmission of disease . VACCINATIONS NOT RECOMMENDED Multiple components in vaccines compete with each other for the immune system and result in lesser immunity for each individual disease as well as increasing the risk of a reaction. Canine Corona Virus is only a disease of puppies. It is rare, self limiting (dogs get well in 3 days without treatment). Cornell & Texas A&M have only diagnosed one case each in the last 7 years. Corona virus does not cause disease in adult dogs. Leptospirosis vaccine is a common cause of adverse reactions in dogs . Most of the clinical cases of lepto reported in dogs in the US are caused by serovaars (or types) grippotyphosa and bratsilvia. The vaccines contain different serovaars eanicola and ictohemorrhagica. Cross protection is not provided and protection is short lived. Lepto vaccine is immuno-supressive to puppies less than 16 weeks. NEW RECOMMENDATIONS FOR CATS Feline vaccine related Fibrosarcoma is a type of terminal cancer related in inflammation caused by rabies & leukemia vaccines . This cancer is thought to affect 1 in 10,000 cats vaccinated. Vaccines with aluminum adjuvant, an ingredient included to stimulate the immune system, have been implicated as a higher risk. We now recommend a non-adjuvanted rabies vaccine for cats . Testing by Dr. Macy, Colorado State, has shown this vaccine to have the lowest tissue reaction and although there is no guarantee that a vaccine induced sarcoma will not develop, the risk will be much lower than with other vaccines. Program injectable 6 mo flea prevention for cats has been shown to be very tissue reactive & therefore has the potential of inducing an injection site fiborsarcoma. If your cats develops a lump at the site of a vaccination, we recommend that it be removed ASAP, within 3-12 weeks. Feline Leukemia Virus Vaccine This virus is the leading viral killer of cats. The individuals most at risk of infection are young outdoor cats, indoor/outdoor cats and cats exposed to such individuals. Indoor only cats with no exposure to potentially infected cats are unlikely to become infected. All cats should be tested prior to vaccination. Cats over one year of age are naturally immune to Fel.V whether they are vaccinated or not, so annual vaccination of adult cats is NOT necessary. The incubation period of Feline leukemia can be over 3 years, so if your cat is in the incubation state of the disease prior to vaccination, the vaccine will not prevent the disease. Feline Panleukopenia Virus Vaccine. Also called feline distemper is a highly contagious and deadly viral disease of kittens. It's extremely hardy and is resistant to extremes in temperature and to most available disinfectants. Although an effective treatment protocol is available, it is expensive to treat because of the serious nature of the disease and the continued presence of virus in the environment, vaccination is highly recommended for all kittens . Cats vaccinated at 6 month or older with either killed or MLV vaccine will produce an immunity good for life. Adult cats do NOT need this vaccine. Feline Calicivirus/Herpesvirus Vaccine. Responsible for 80-90% of infectious feline upper respiratory tract diseases. The currently available injectable vaccines will minimize the severity of upper respiratory infections, although none will prevent disease in all situations .. Intranasal vaccines are more effective at preventing the disease entirely. Don't worry about normal sneezing for a couple of days. Because intranasal vaccines produce an immunity of shorter durations, annual vaccination is recommended. VACCINES NOT RECOMMENDED Chlamydia or pneumonitis. The vaccine produces on a short (2 month) duration of immunity and accounts for less than 5% of upper respiratory infections in cats. The risks outweigh the benefits. Feline Infectious Peritonitis. A controversial vaccine. Most kittens that contract FIP become infected during the first 3 months of life. The vaccine is labeled for use at 16 weeks. All 27 vet schools do not recommend the vaccine. Bordetella A new vaccine for feline bordetella has been introduced. Dr. Wolfe of Texas A&M says that bordetella is a normal flora and does not cause disease in adult cats. Dr. Lappin of Colorado State says that a review of the Colorado State medical records reveals not one case diagnosed in 10 years. NEW DEVELOPMENTS Giardia is the most common intestinal parasite of humans in North America, 30% or more of all dogs & cats are infected with giardia. It has now been demonstrated that humans can transmit giardia to dogs & cats & vice versa. Heartworm preventative must be given year round in Houston . VACCINES BADLY NEEDED New vaccines in development include: Feline Immunodeficiency Virus and cat scratch fever vaccine for cats and Ehrlichia [one of the other tick diseases, much worse than Lymes] for dogs. THE VIEW FROM THE TRENCHES; BUSINESS ASPECTS Most vets recommend annual boosters and most kennel operators require them. For years the pricing structure of vets has misled clients into thinking that the inherent value of an annual office visit was in the "shots" they failed to emphasize the importance of a physical exam for early detection of treatable diseases. It is my hope that you will continue to require rabies & Kennel cough and emphasize the importance of a recent vet exam. I also hope you will accept the new protocols and honor these pets as currently vaccinated. Those in the boarding business who will honor the new vaccine protocols can gain new customers who were turned away from vet owned boarding facilities reluctant to change. CONCLUSION Dogs & cats no longer need to be vaccinated against distemper, parvo, & feline leukemia every year . Once the initial series of puppy or kitten vaccinations and first annual vaccinations are completed, immunity from MLV vaccines persists for life. It has been shown that cats over 1 year of age are immune to Feline Leukemia whether they have been vaccinated or not. Imagine the money you will save, not to mention less risks from side effects. PCR rabies vaccine, because it is not adjuvanted, will mean less risk of mediated hemolytic anemia and allergic reactions are reduced by less frequent use of vaccines as well as by avoiding unnecessary vaccines such as K-9 Corona virus and chlamydia for cats, as well as ineffective vaccines such as Leptospirosis and FIP. Intranasal vaccine for Rhiotracheitis and Calici virus, two upper respiratory viruses of cats provide more complete protection than injectable vaccines with less risk of serious reactions. The AAHA and all 27 veterinary schools of North America are our biggest endorsement for these new protocols. Dr. Bob Rogers Please consider as current on all vaccinations for boarding purposes . DOGS Initial series of puppy vaccines 1. distemper, hepatitis, parvo, parinfluenze - 3 sets one month apart concluding at 16 weeks of age. 2. Rabies at 16 weeks of age (later is better) 3. Bordetella within last 4-6 months First annual (usually at 1 year and 4 months of age) 1. DHP, Parvo, Rabies 2. Bordetella within last 4-6 months 2 years or older 1. Rabies with in last year 2. Bordetella within last 4-6 months 3. DHP & Parvo given anytime over 6 months of age , but not necessarily within the last year. Recommended: Physical exam for transmissible diseases and health risks. CATS Initial kitten series 1. Distemper [PLP], Rhino Calicivirus, Feline Leukemia Vaccine - 3 sets given one month apart concluding at 16 weeks. 2. Rabies at 16 weeks First Annual [usually at 1 year and 4 months of age] 1. Distemper (PLP), Rhino Calicivirus, Rabies 2 years or older 1. Rabies within the last year 2. Rhino Calicivirus within last year 3. Distemper and FelV given anytime after 6 months of age, but not necessarily with the last year. Recommended: Physical exam, FeLV/FIV testing, fecal exam for giardia. Cheers, Lauren _________________ Laurel, Felicity, Benny, Paris, Sport, Fawkes and KD the cats! www.geocities.com/bellaclan_bcs

QUOTE: From what I recall of the first discussion you had on the rescue board you had no no-breeding contract in place, although you said you were going to start using one. The last 5 litters have all been on contracts and when i contacted the pups from the other two litter 1 litter of 7 and the other of 8, 12 were already fixed and the other three have since then got them fixed and provided proof from their vet to me! I did not go from herding to conformation to herding. I had herding lines but am more interested in the comnformation lines. I have just decided that i would like to herd with my conformation lines! I intend to prove their worthiness of being bred! But no it will not be with just herding! QUOTE:so insead of crying "they are being mean to me" sorry did i forgott i said something? Because i really don't ever remember crying or wining that you were being mean to me i understand what you are trying to say. I just dont agree with it!

A) i didn't say that my dogs could work because they have national champions in their ped. QUOTE: what really happens to all those puppies that are produced by backyard breeders like yourself please specify, I know exactly where all my puppis are, The owner all have to attend an obedience class, they all keep in contact with me, they are all on no-breeding contracts and if they don't want the dog anymore it must come straight back to me. So please what happens to my puppies? They get loved cared for and are brought into this world be someone (me) who will ensure that they are never put into any danger or are anything but loved and adored! I know that there are people that have no clue and pump out puppies non stop and dont take them back when they are un wanted and send them off without a no-breeding contract and dont care what happens to the puppy after they get the money in their hands, or wheather the new owners are pumping puppies out of the underaged pups. But this is not me! Because i dont breed for the reason that you think is the only reason to breed i am a back yard breeder? Sorry yes i have just started breeding for conformation! Although i started out with the working lines. But i would like to do some herding with my conformation lins. Is that so bad? Are my dogs abused? Do they go to abusive homes? Do i not make sure they are in good hands and send them off with 5 year to life times guarantees? Do BYB do this do they give a rats @$$ what happens to the pups later? There are Three backyard breders in my area, yes they take care of their dogs but they dont have guarantees they dont take the pup back, the dont have no-breeding contracts, or keep track of the pup after they have gone! Yes i breed for conformation, There is no law aying that it isn't possible for me to breed nicely built dogs that can work to, is there? There is no rason why it cant be dont! Iv seen many nice built working dogs! The ugly gene and the working gene is not related! There is not reason why the working dogs can't look like the show dogs and still be able to work!

Darby is an excellent breeder. She breed for more doggy sports and conformation. Just started in conformation and has been choosing CH. studs! Felicitys sister just got a 4 point major YAY! 1) How many litters have you bred? 7 in 6 years three were this year and two were co bred 2) Have you shown any dog anywhere in conformation? If so, where? Have you gotten any titles or points on any dog? If so, who and where? I just purchased a show prospective girl (felicity) and i also have laurel which is related to felicity way back. they will both be shown in Duluth, MN at the Duluth Kennel Club in July coming up! 3) Have you shown/trialed any dog in any venue in herding? If so, who and where? nope, just starting 4) If you have not shown any of your dogs in conformation, or trialed them, how exactly are you going about breeding for conformation and herding? The breeder whome i got comet and Tessie from had working border collies. He never trialed them they were plainely working dogs. They handled a whole herd of cattle (2500) cows every day all day! Does this not prove that they are capable working dogs. These dogs have done this for generation after generation they dont need to be trialed to prove they are worthy sheep dogs they earn their keep. Many of my pups have went to working homes.

lol sorry i explained wrong.....any how she has passed her eye exam. I think its called cornell I didn't get details on where i know it started with a C and was in Philidelphia near Pensdale. Thats where the breeder lives (Darby Lewes of Folly Hill's Kennel) An excellent breeder in my books who deeply cares for her dogs! The fact remains that she passed!

Dr. Larocca only comed out about once a year. It is hard to time litters to be the right age when he comes!

I see your piont. But i did not buy a dog knowing she was a carrier. She passed her eye exams as a pup at Cornwall, in Philidelphia. Her sire had passed it 7 years running and her mom had passed it as well. both parents passed hip, elbo and thyroid as well. Now about a month after i got her they DNA checked Dallas and it was found that he had CEA after all but that it was so little that not one doctor in 7 years had detected anything! She is from out standing blood lines (my opinion and many others) She is a nice mix and yes she has instinct and some kick. She is not one of those hold still dogs. Im hoping to do some herding with her but my distance from my trainner is making it very difficult eccpecially in this weather. Now the rest of the dogs have their hipps x-rayed and checked. Two vets look at the x-rays they are very experienced and can tell a displaystic dog when they see one! I just haven't sent them out to OFA to get them CERT. so that is why they are not listed on OFA. There is a eye vet that comes out. Now when the time comes to breed Felicity, all the pups in the litter that may be bred shown trialed etc. will be geneticaly tested, no if buts or maybes. There will all be done! I dont want one of her possibly carrier pups to be bred to another carrie because we didnt know it was a carrier and possibly produce affected pups! My other dogs have all been eye checked by Dr. Larocca DVM but as of now have not been DNA checked.

Hi, I thank you for asking me these questions and not bombarding me. Firstly yes they have their hips checked. Felicity's eyes are DNA by geneotype Carrier, her sire passed his eye test 7 years in a row and sadly when the DNA came out and Dallas's owner (forgott her name) its dreamworkd border collies, got the test done he is CEA AFFECTED. But my girls mom is normal so hence she is a carrier. Now their is no canine eye doctor around here, so i can not get the eyes checked so im working on getting all the pups genetically tested so i wont need to eye test at all. At the moment most pups go to homes in the usa anyway so the owners get the eyes tested/checked and if their is anything wrong they get a new pup or refund. Now you are very right you cant shouw in canada! I show states side ushually the Duluth Kennel club in, MN. Alos am thinking about msending the ones that really have achance to make it to the top out with handlers on the circuit as hefty as the price is. noe for pedigrees I have no clue how to put them on my webite i have tried but still cant figure out how to do it! I know how to e-mail them though! Working lines consist of: (Walter Jaggar) Imp. Celt, (Alan Lynches) Mc Duff,(Jim Martins) Glen III these are the well known ones. Show lines: CH Korella Royal Command (#2 border collie two years running), AUST NZ JAPAN CH Windgyle Maori Chief, AUST GRAND CH Korella Fire N' Ice, CH Darkwinds Blame it on Rio, NZ/AUST/AFR/ZIM CH Clan Abby Casanova Too, DK Ch Sequayapark Eye O'th Storm, AUST/USA/DK CH Korella Song of Joy, Euro Winner Barcellona 2004 It/Lux/Gbr/Mon/RSM/Slo/Slo Cl/Rip Ch GPE Sequoyahpark Mystical Warrior (multiple BIS in Italy), NZ GRAND CH AUST CH Clan Abby Phantom-of-Love, see here web page there are links at the bottom to some of the relations pages also! and on and on and on........ there are more herding dogs back there too. I hoped to join this group to learn more about the herding aspect og th eborder collie as im interested in that also!

wow i apologize for the above terrible spelling and grammar i was a little heated!

I did not run away from anything, I put the add in pup city long ago and it send to a diffren't e-mail which i don't even check! Someone could have e-mailed me so that i could answer questions about my lines but no no one cared enoght to find out the truth. Firstly lol I have 6 border collies 1 one the way this is not "fake". I dont know where you got that idea from. Also I show in conformation i know you all dont like that but what can i say i am not going to change my ways no matter what any of you say so dont even bother convincing me! But I will also be taking classes and getting 6 sheep and 6 ducks to train with as im so far from my trainner. I have deffrent beliefs about breeding and trainng then you do but thats just how it is i have my beliefs and you have your so leave it at that. Im not going to bother to even erase the add on pup city but I dont have that e-mail so im not worrieing about it. All i know is that i deeply care and love my dogs, they bring much enjoyment for me. They are all guaranteed for five years,on spay/neuter contracts and all owners have to keep in contact with me i am very seriouse when it comes to where my pups end up also the pup muct come back to me if it is no longer wanted. If you have any questions or would like a copy of my contract etc dont be afraid to ask! Kind Regards, Lauren Also if this was fake i dont think anyone in their right mind would write up a four page cotracte for the "occasion" now would they?

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