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tumblehome

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About tumblehome

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  • Birthday 03/17/1950
  1. Tess 3-1/2yrs old, 30lb.
  2. tumblehome

    Crufts

    I went to Crufts once, some time ago last century. The handlers were not actually slovenly, but certainly not dressed for dinner like they are in the US. The dogs were not actually ungroomed, but certainly were not sprayed and polished and tweaked like they are here. So, these things are good, IMO, even though I don't quite get the reverse snobbism of the Crufts' participants (nor do I understand the top hat and tails approach in the US). The disconnect between the breed ring dogs and the performance dogs was easily as profound there, then, as it is here, now. In agility and obedience, there were no Border Collies, just Working Collies--the dogs we would recognize I think as working Border Collies. The breed ring retrievers were coffee table dogs--broad backs and squatty short legs--as they are being shown now, here in the US. However, the working retrievers looked remarkably like our working retrievers look. And in the UK they swear up and down that there is NO show/work split in any of these breeds. So, even while enjoying the performances, it was painful to watch the "conformation dogs" move with little of the grace and purpose they originally had been bred for. FWIW. Chris O
  3. tumblehome

    Green tripe

    Greentripe.com is in central coastal California and will ship anywhere but the cost of shipping will take all the fun out of feeding raw green tripe. Prey4Pets in Kentucky has lovely tripe--whole sheets of the stuff while greentripe.com only offers coarsely ground tripe and tripe blends. Both companies have reputations for producing high quality product. Canned tripe is cooked of course and as far as I have seen, is doctored up to meet the AAFCO requirements for "complete and balanced." This would not raw green tripe of course. Since green tripe is not a nutritional requirement, I'd say source out raw you can afford or don't bother. And of course the bleached white stuff in grocery stores is not the tripe you're looking for. HTH. Chris
  4. tumblehome

    putting weight on a raw-fed dog

    Assuming an otherwise healthy dog, the most successful and healthiest way to add weight is to increase the amount of food, increase the frequency of meals, and add fat. It is usually less explosive to add fat and increase daily intake by spreading the wealth over more meals--more food, less stress. Probably the elk and venison are very lean but certainly mutton isn't and although pork necks are generally bone with some attached non-bone stuff, there's usually plenty of fat there. The fish oil does not significantly increase calorie count. Your friend can try adding more fat, but she should do it over time: weight gain to be healthy should not be abrupt. Feeding pork meat will add healthy weight (as opposed to the weight gain that comes from cereal grains); feeding beef heart complete with its suet is another way to get healthy calories into her dog. Based on my experience with putting weight on dogs, at least a month is needed to add weight without digestive upset. My apologies for replying so late. Hope this helps. Chris
  5. tumblehome

    Going Raw ???

    I don't really understand why those who choose not to feed raw are so fussed by those of who do. The title of this thread makes it clear it is about feeding raw diets; it does not appear to be about why, but rather how. For those of us who have chosen to feed raw, and for those who in the face of a massive petfood recall are reconsidering their options, this topic could be useful and enlightening and maybe even interesting. If those of you who disagree with raw feeding are frustrated by reading about wolves (grey) and the inextricable relationship between grey wolves (canis lupus) and dogs (canis lupus familiaris), perhaps you might simply not linger. I for one am not trying to persuade anyone to do something they are not comfortable with, for whatever reason; I am trying communicate safe, easy , flexible and nutritious ways to make raw possible. Seems to me that the Border Collie Boards are large enough to accomodate those who are fer a raw diet, as well as those who are agin it. Chris O
  6. tumblehome

    Going Raw ???

    Hey, I'm glad you posted. I am not about to question your credentials but I am interested in your references. Thanks! Chris O
  7. tumblehome

    Going Raw ???

    There are two basic ways to decide how much to feed. Usually they sort of blend together after a while. The first is to feed some percentage of ideal adult body weight--2%, 3%, 4% even 5% if your bc is "on" 24/7. So a 40lb adult might get 13oz a day (at 2%), or 19oz a day (at 3%), or perhaps 25oz (at 4%). My 6mo pup weighs about 25lb; I am feeding her about a pound of food a day which according to the formula would be adequate for a 50lb adult. I doubt she'll even get to 40lb but she's burning through that amount of food right now so I dare not reduce it, at least yet. When she slows down (yeah right), she may get less food. The other way is to simply start with some amount and then adjust up or down as your dog's appearance, behavior, energy level, etc. warrant it. This is hard for lots of people who are accustomed to feeding per a chart, but for the dog it makes more sense--if you need more food you eat more food, if you don't, you don't. I think it's easiest to start with a percentage of adult weight, then adjust up and down based on the dog itself. Best of both worlds, IMO. I get my fish oil good old Walmart. Truly though, it's everywhere. Chris O
  8. tumblehome

    Going Raw ???

    Garlic is considered fine in moderation. For a medium size dog, a small clove every other day is not invasive. There's little reason to feed onion; garlic may help with fleas. However, there are other non-traditional ways to deal with fleas, so if you're not comfortable feeding garlic, you certainly don't have to. Chris O
  9. tumblehome

    Going Raw ???

    Thanks. No picture because I haven't figured out how to post them. And I can't seem to take a decent photo of her. Grim, very grim. However! If you go to http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n168/RD...a/HeadStudy.jpg and look at Roseanne's girl, you'll see almost exactly what Tess looks like. Same, same, same. Chris O
  10. tumblehome

    Raw diet

    You did nothing wrong except maybe feed difficult bones to a newbie dog. At their best, beef bones are difficult for most dogs to digest. A dog that is just beginning is not generally up to the challenge of dense bones. Don't feed beef bones until Riven has had some on the job training. The vomited bone bits are what's left after Riven's digestive system has done all it can do--what can't go out one way will come out the other; both exit strategies are more healthy than stagnant irritants. If Riven refuses to eat chicken, I mean, after you've given her the choice of chicken or zip and she opts for zip, try a different meat. I forget--have you tried pork? Try pork. Doesn't have to have a bone in it for now; for now just concern yourself with meat acceptance. Chris O
  11. tumblehome

    Going Raw ???

    Yep, that would be me. Chris O
  12. tumblehome

    Going Raw ???

    Most of this has been gone over and you've got some great information to work with, so I'll keep this as really and truly short as I can. If you want to feed veggies and fruit, add them to a meal after you've decided what the menu is. Veggies and fruit do not have to use up valuable space...they can be plopped literally on top of the essential food, and in quantities far less than 25% of the diet. How about 2%? Much more realistic. Veggies and fruit are great as treats though, and as long as you remember that treats are special, you can use veggies and fruit freely. Squash is generally regarded as a dietary aid if one is so inclined, not a rotation veggie. I prefer to regulate my dogs' stools with more or less bone and more or less meat or organs, but some people think squash does the trick faster and with less effort. Too much squash may constipate OR loosen up a dog, so please rethink including it in the menu. Better to feed it to yourself. Brewer's yeast should definitely be reconsidered. There's no nutritional need for it. Spend your money on high quality human grade meats and organs and you will not have to worry about compiling a laundry list of supplements. The same goes for ACV and flaxseed oil. Your dog has digestive juices that out strip ACV's benefits. Let your dog do what it can do, naturally. Flaxseed oil is a very inefficient source of Omega 3 fatty acids. What it has is a precursor to it--alpha linolenic acid--that must be converted to linolenic acid before the dog can use it. Only about a third of the ALA actually benefits the dog. Stick to animal-based EFAs. The salmon oil (or fish body oil, but not cod liver oil) will do fine and be more effective. Vitamins come in the foods you feed. You do not have to add more. Adding C and E comfort some people, I don't think either is necessary but neither is especially intrusive if used appropriately. Instead of looking for sources of premixed, premade meat-based products, you should consider grocery stores, supermarkets, meat wholesalers, Asian markets. You can almost certainly buy human grade food for less money, with less hassle and with fewer compromising "ingredients." Chris O
  13. tumblehome

    home made dog food

    You have to understand that dogs have no nutritional need for carbohydrates. So if you want to feed vegetables, you should add them after the essential meal itself has been created. While they may offer trace minerals--and this is why (I think) people continue to feed them--they should not be a significant part of the basic diet. Green beans are probably not the best choice but lots of people sure do rely on them for filling up dogs. Depending on what else is on the menu, green beans range from harmless to intrusive. A meal that is already quite loaded with grains and other veggiesfor example has no need for even more plant material. A meal that is substantially meat can take extraneous vegetation. If I were going to add vegetables to my dogs' menu, I myself would choose dark leafy stuff in an attempt to replicate browse. That said, as long as you limit veggies to topper status, whatever you want to blenderize or cook (steaming is probably least destructive), you can use. It doesn't make sense (to me) to be fearful of food that dogs were eating long before kibble was invented. Raw meat is easily digestible, it is uncompromised by rendering or grains or organic chemistry, it retains more of its nutrients than cooked does. But if you need an alternative to commercial dog food and raw meat doesn't do it for you, following some well-researched and written cooked recipes isn't a bad way to go. Chris O
  14. tumblehome

    raw - an easy method

    I am feeding one Lab, two goldens, one cat and a border collie pup. The cat and the pup pretty much get the same food but in different sizes; the big dogs get more food and more complicated food. Beyond that, I don't think I've made things too awfully difficult for myself. The big dogs get whole chicken, lamb breasts or legs, turkey quarters, whole rabbit, bone-in pork shoulder roast, "long" pig's feet, goat parts, whole raw sardines and mackerel, salmon heads, chicken backs that I feed with beef, pork, lamb and venison trim and heart; I also feed liver, kidney, spleen, lungs, trachea, green tripe. I sometimes give whole cow feet for amusement. I irregularly supplement with fish oil caps, right now that's my only supplement. The pup gets smaller, easier portions and meaty bones that are too small for the big dogs, like lamb shanks, goat or lamb necks, beef gullet. Occasionally I will pop for a Cornish game hen to give pup and cat more challenging chicken parts. Oh, and when the pup was a wee bairn, a whole quail was a perfect size for a meal. Generally I don't go so very far out of my way to make these foods happen. I do make a tripe run every other month for the buying group I belong to. I think Donna F's purchasing accomplishments are outstanding--especially given how difficult it is for UK raw feeders to find affordable variety! She's a terrific role model (well, in more ways than one, actually). Chris O
  15. tumblehome

    More Raw Questions

    I look so look forward to deer season! I have been feeding trim plus some organs and occasional meaty bones for several years now. My dogs do well on vension and rarely have loose stools even after large meals; venison was my pup's first meal at home here and she did fine as well. I avoid the legs since they are effectively meatless and I choose not to offer bare bones to my dogs. I am wary of the rib cage for the same reason. The necks I have gotten though have uniformly been meaty works of art. While there is no evidence at all that wolves, coyotes or dogs are susceptible to CWD (though cats are) and indeed some research suggests healthy wolf populations are instrumental in keeping CWD from spreading (by removing the diseased deer), if you are concerned about it, avoid eating/feeding the brain and the spinal column. This of course removes the lovely meaty necks from the menu but that's not an awful price to pay for being able to feed your dogs venison. I don't see why wild turkey wouldn't be useful. Make sure (in both cases) there are no bullets or shot in the carcass; if you would feel safer, a thorough freezing (frozen solid for two weeks is fine) will kill most parasites. Chris O
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