C Crocker

Pearse, Ok here is my personal take on it all. As for being a member of the USBCHA assn, when my dog was trialed at the Nursery Natl's in 06 I inquired with those at the USBCHA handling entries if I should join. I was told I did not need to as I was not trialing my dog and not an Open handler. So hearing that and reading all the comments on various boards/lists about novice folks I passed joining. The big discussion about the horror of Novice handlers getting a vote was a pretty good deterent to joining as well. (And I thought the Associate membership already in place handled that situation of voting/non voting). Frankly I thought they should make it mandatory for owner and handler, if different , to join, and I really should have joined at that time anyway , but I did not. In 07 when I started trialing same dog in Pro Novice here on the West Coast, as P/N is not a santioned class and I am not ready for Open, I still did not join. Here it is 08, my dog got borrowed by my teacher and I borrowed her retired Open to to trial in P/N. Frankly as I was not involved really with my dog when she went to the Open trials and this year Natl's I never thought about joining. But even though I will still be a P/N handler in 09 I will join and be I guess they call an Associate member. I think all people who trial should have to be members, if only for more revenue for the USBCHA, and to support in a small way the mother group who sanctions trials, but I can see where they don't promote that as the classes under the Open are not under their rules, as such or santioned. As far as streaming video is concerned , it is a very big endeavor, as you know, being obviously very computer savy. I have show horses and Nat'l organizations much larger that the USBCHA utilize the streaming video and often have trouble with the mechanics of it. They have sponsors to pay for this video, so it is free to the viewers. As for myself I don't care if it's up and going or not because I can't get anything of a video nature through my dial up. I would wonder of the plausiblity of it all. Not to mention, except for folks like you who report , take photos and video some runs, it does not seem to be a tradition to line of an official video person or photographer at some of these Natl's, at least as far as I can tell. As for paying for information, that is a viable idea, but this is a relatively small organization and it would seem that there would need to be some info readily available to all, and some to members only, such as meetings mintutes, etc. Results from the Natl's as it happens I feel should be free info, as it allows folks to follow along who may be just catching the bug and want to follow a particular dog/handler. Frankly the USBCHA is focused on a particular group of dog owners/handlers, so making info not available to the general public may discourage folks from wanting to join up. There most likely aren't emany like Sue who looked at joining as helping the bc industry. I wish I'd thought like her in 06 and joined anyway. You are correct in saying if folks want to become serious about trialing, or really even to just be plain amazed at what these dogs can do, go to the Natl's at least once. I have been to two of them, 01 and 06 and I tried not to miss a single dog for a week! It's quite an education. I did not attend the Finals this year as I had to chose between going to Soldier Hollow to see my dog or Sturgis and I opted for Soldier Hollow. I was not dissapointed in that trial either, and Pearse you are correct, one can meet so many nice people involved in this sport. Not to mention see some incredible dogs. And I am so grateful that you offered up your time and expertise so we all could follow along. Carolyn

Hi Deb, I'd love to see the videos but unfortunately I have dial up here in the country so can't see anything that "moves" on the computer. Do you know if the ISDS will have a dvd of the World trial that we can purchase like they do the Natl's and Internatl's? I have the dvd from the 07 Internat'l and would love to have one from this World's trial. Carolyn

Now that' it's history, I'd like to congratulate all the Finalists for this year. Through Pearse's blog and my reprts from Suzy about it all it sounded as though it was one tough road to travel. Of course I wish luck had been with Lyn in the semi's shed so she could have had more time at the pen, but it was not to be and I am still so proud of her for being in the hunt for so long. I can only dream that I may get as good as those who competed there so that I could experience the same feeling with Lyn someday. So CONGRATULATIONS to all! Carolyn

Pearse, Thanks so much for your thorough reporting from the Natl's field. It was the next best thing to being there! Carolyn

I am sure we've all been following the World Trial and it looks to be over. Congratulations to Aled Owen and his young dog Roy for winning the Championship. Aled and his dogs seem to be super achievers as he also won it previously with roy's sire Bob. Scores looked to be close. Carolyn

Laurae, Don't you just love to scribe? It's a birdseye view and can be so educational. Carolyn

Diane, I will sure pass along your congrats to Suzy when I pick up Lyn next week. I am sure she is quite proud of her Buzz. She will appreciate the kind words I am sure. After her run with Lyn in the prelims Scot made a point of stopping her as she came off the field and complimented both her handling and Lyn. It meant a lot to her I know, as Scot is such a good handler. Yes I am still the proud mom! I have had her home since the 06 Natl's and trialing her in the P/N in 07 and part of 08, so I am impressed she came "overcame" that and stepped up so fast. And I hope your are healing up quickly. Carolyn

3 years ago, I was considering another pup and contacted a few people and was referred to Diane Pagel from the boards. Before I bought the pups (we bought littermates), we had spoken about her philosophy on standing by what she bred, even going so far as paying fair market value (i.e, over the puppy price) for a started dog that didn't work out for the buyer. In my situation, with already 6 dogs at home, adding two more dogs meant they must work out for us as working dogs. Unfortunately, my pup did not mesh well with me and although she was keen enough and there was not anything "wrong" with her, I could not forsee any progress in her training so long as I owned her. I only wanted what was in the best interest of the dog and offered her back to Diane, expecting only that she might help pay to ship her up there. I was pleasantly surprised to receive a pup from a different breeding in exchange, the dog I sent up was placed in a good situation and I have a pup that is just right for me. Jet was definitely worth the wait and I'm glad I went to a breeder that would work with me and the dogs to find the right situation for both. I really feel that we can all talk about contracts until we are blue in the face, but nothing will change the fact that both parties need to be clear about what is expected and have mutual respect for each other and of course, the best interest of the dog in common. Contracts may be enforceable, but at what cost for the breeder, the buyer and the dogs? Better to start out with people you trust to begin with and who have a good track record. Jaime, I bet you are glad you found Diane when you were looking for a pup. And I suspect your's and my experiences with working breeders is not rare. I bet there are many out there, including many on this bc board. Carolyn

I know all of this is written up quite well on Pearse's web site, but I am so proud of Buzz I just had to post. Buzz and Suzy Applegate won the Nursery Ch today at Sturgis. Buzz is part of my Lyn's dog "family" as they are both by Suzy's Hap. Buzz' mom is lying by my feet as I type, quite pleased with herself for producing Buzz! Even more pleased when I gave her a dog cookie to celebrate. Buzz' littermates were also in there with Quill and Sanra Milberg at 7th and Best and Suzy at 24th . I am a fortunate person as I have been "fostering" Bet, who Suzy retired a year or so ago form the Open, since April when Suzy asked me to borrow Lyn as her 2nd Open dog for the year. I appreciate the opportunity to learn from such a pro as Bet out on the trial field and around the ranch as well. And Congratulations to all those Nursery and Open dogs who made it through this trial. From all descriptions it sounded like even the seasoned dogs and handlers had some challenges. Carolyn

[ Carolyn, I hope you don't mind if I jump in on this one! Feel free. It wasnt a quote from me and I don't know the answer either! Carolyn

[ I bought a working bred border collie four years ago and was guided by the breeder who is also the trainer/trialer of these dogs. That's where I learned of the eye cerf exam ( it was included in the price of the pup) and when to get the hips/elbows OFA'd. So my experience of working breeders must be way different than what sports people claim the working folks to be. Actuallythere are I am sure many responsible working breeders who do test and do hip checks and keep track of progeny and their health, soundness, etc. There are many who do not, just as there are many sports breeders who do not. I wouldn't have a clue as to how many working breeders do or do not test , other than the ones I have dealt with , but I do know my trainer, Suzy Applegate, who is currently at the Sheepdog Natl's competing with the results of her breeding program, does the needed health checks and educates her customers as well. I am so grateful I found her and followed her guidance. I have bred horses for over forty years and I do realize things can pop up, but it is wise to test for what is relevant to your animal and it's intended use, even if it is not a guaranty of what may happen down the road. Carolyn

You are lucky to have Usher and I think it probably works the other way too--he's lucky to have you. That bond is so special. And glad to read farther in the thread that you are feeling better. Carolyn

Do you ever talk to your fellow sports competitors and encourage them to look for pups from nice working-bred litters? Do others you know do the same? Or are most going to the top sports breeders no matter what anyone says? Always! And yes, I know many people doing the same. Some people are swayed and do research and fine a nice working bred litter. Some go to the latest fad in top sports bred, multi-colored dogs and pay $1000 - $2500 for a sports bred dog who, if they are lucky, don't end up epileptic, dysplastic, sick or just plain unstable in temperament by maturity. This is a problem definitely. I never suggested I had the solution. I just suggested that perhaps more sports people who, in the majority I would say, tend to be very good and very caring homes for their dogs, would turn to working dogs if their breeders were perceived as being more accessible and were willing to answer the questions that sports people tend to have about testing, structure, temperament and history. Best, Jen J. Jen, I have a question related to this part of your post I quoted. Since I read that sports people routinely have their dogs tested for all kinds of things ( hips, eyes, etc), are the spots bred collies with all those problems you stated from breeders who test? And is there a test to see if a dog would be prone to epilepsy? I know next to nothing about sports bred border collies and their owners, other than the few I have met while taking lessons on sheep . I bought a working bred border collie four years ago and was guided by the breeder who is also the trainer/trialer of these dogs. That's where I learned of the eye cerf exam ( it was included in the price of the pup) and when to get the hips/elbows OFA'd. So my experience of working breeders must be way different than what sports people claim the working folks to be. Interesting topic. Carolyn

Julie, I wish them all the best of luck and of course would like to see the USA do well. But if I must pick one I will say my vote goes to my friend's nephew Gethin Jones and Eira from Wales. Gethin won the prelim go round at the International last year and is a very good young handler. Carolyn Well here's an adit for my pick(s). Now that the whole prelims are over, I have to add H Jones and his dog Sam and Aled Owen and his Roy. Hope we can route for multiples! Carolyn

CJ and Mitch, I have not had lessons with Derek, but my trainer Suzy recommended him to the folks at Willowside, where he now gives lessons full time. He has had great success, especially being such a young person , in his training/trialing career. They have many different sized work areas , too. Suzy's lessons I can speak to and they are very information filled , generous with her time, always there ( meaning doesn't do the " no shows")when you make a lesson date , although it might not start right at the prearranged time. Much better to communicate with her through email than phone. She shuffles a full training group of dogs , many many lessons, and a two year old son! But, in my opinion you get your money's worth and she can read dogs and people pretty darn well. But she will not tell you how great your dog looks as it is slicing at the top or crossing over because it cannot yet go the distance to where sheep are set. She does like serious students, that is to say those who really want to learn and not whine. By serious I do not mean necessarily only those that want to trial but those that want to grow. She is enthusiastic and wants all her students and their dogs to reach as much success as possible. Having had a dog with her for some time and taken lessons full time for two years ( plus taking lessons with my now old-er dog some years ago) I have seen dozens of young dogs owned by Open handlers that are sent to her to start. Her dog husbandry is impeccible, which is easily witnessed as you look at her kennel and turnouts. My dog would not be there if I did not know that to be the case. In short, she loves dogs and is always happy to see her present or former students do well at the trials. All that said , however, --from Marin it would be a straighter drive down to Pescadero ( and it is so cool and pretty down there! ) possible, but if you are used to driving to NV maybe it won't matter. Good luck to you where ever you go. Carolyn

Julie, I am tickled pink at Lyn's score, whether or not it holds. She finished 2nd for the day today. Of course I was proud of her at Soldier Hollow and she missed the Finals by 2 points! ( But then I am proud of her when she packs me around a P/N course!). I spoke to Suzy this pm and she is so proud of Lyn she can hardly stand it. She was approached by a handler who asked if Lyn is for sale and she told him that she would have to kill me first then she could inherit Lyn then the handler would have to kill her! Lyn is like all our dogs are to us--she is my baby. Carolyn

Thanks Lenajo, I had forgotten about his web site. I had this man do a pedigree on my border collie when she was a pup. Carolyn

One helpful thing that *could* be done is to rank breeders by numbers of litters produced like ISDS does. Or maybe that is is by kennel name? Anyway, I know I can look at the ISDS site and see that XYZ kennel has produce X number of litters since X year. Hi Lenajo, Not to steer this thread off course, but can you tell me how I get to the area on the ISDS web site that has this info? I read the website often, but have not run into this info on there and I would love to be able to read it Thanks in advance for the info. Carolyn

Sounds as though Derek has a good plan for you and your dogs. Good luck with Abby's Dr appt this week. Carolyn

The homely little dog has saved the day before, and he will do it again. Funny how beautiful a homely little dog can be when he's doing a beautiful job. Sue, Remember, pretty is as pretty does. Carolyn

Pearse, I wish you the best of luck! Carolyn

Unable to replace themselves without the help of the strong working genes formerly present in the peripheral gene pool, over time, the number of dogs truly in the red circle diminishes until the gene pool is too small. Denise, You hit the bullseye with this explanation. Carolyn

Hi Diane, well I am not good enough to run, being only a P/N, and I am not able to go to watch either, but my dog Lyn is going with Suzy Applegate handling. I think you saw Lyn at the 06 Klamath Nursery , then last year 07 I started my trialing in the P/N with her, plus going a few early 08. I love it! One of Suzy's dogs had to be laid up for a bit this year so she took Lyn back , moved her to Open and off they went. She just went to Soldier Hollow and just missed the cut by 2 pts, having the tough draw of the first day in the heat. I was so proud of Lyn though as she has been on range ewes two times before SH and she handled them fine. So I will get her back as soon as the Nat'ls are over. Luckily she has loaned me her retired ever faithful Open dog Bet so I have been able to continue with lessons and trialing this year. I'm glad to see you back posting regularly--must mean you are well on the road to recovery. I know you had it rough there for a bit. Carolyn