Annette Carter & the Borderbratz

Julie, I agree with you and I still believe that there is a fairly wide range of structure possibilites that work but there are some that just don't too which is why we don't see BCs as a breed moving like poodles of any variety but since BCs are bred for function, outside of ruling out disease (as you stated earlier) I don't think structure and its science needs much more thought. If it was deemed by some expert that your dog had wierd structural problem (Say was built like a GSD or a hyena sp?), but your dog was great otherwise and she was the only means you had to get the dogs you need to work your farm they could probably tell you how to breed that out. (boy what a "if grasshoppers had machine guns?" scenario ) Or with some good common sense about what doesn't work in your dog and what works better in others, given that the others are just as keen to work as your dog, you could choose the sire of the your litter on your own.

Denise, I hope you understand what I meant in that science is available and should be used as an aid to those stock dog breeders who already know what they are doing and that it's great that it's available to them should they choose to use it or need it for some reason- not that science should be used as the standard yardstick for breeding. It's way earlier here so sometimes I'm not clear. Well, off to work for me.

Julie is right about the trot. I bet you would find a range of certain scientific measurements in dogs that are tireless workers. I bet you would find that they have good length of upper arm in relation to the length of the shoulder blade (um indicating decent layback to the shoulder)- meaning that you'd never see them hackney in movement. You would also see a rear assembly that favored good drive and flexibility. There is a bunch of possibilities on how these things could come together to create very different looking dogs. Heck lots of mutts have good structure. And yes this trotting business was developed in horses and it really is better to trot an animal in a natural position not an elevated head. Most working BCs I meet have fine over all body structure front and rear without anyone ever trying for it (maybe they don't have hip sockets who knows! but that isn't really related to structure)which is why I really believe that the nature of the work forges the breed as a whole. I find it interesting that it's been brought up about determining if the work is hard enough these days to continue to forge a superior dog.

I guess I've always seen BCs to be sort of like the Mustang. Maybe I'm wrong. Mustangs are very healthy as a whole and sound and even have certain things that are characteristic looking of their "breed" like hard feet, thick leg bones, larger knuckles- generally easy keepers as far as feeding. Nature in all it's harshness has forged a generally very sound animal. They don't always have the prettiest legs- or prettiest anything else either sometimes. The BC is of course not chosen as a breed by natural selection but in many generations past, darned near it! The hard work has forged the dog. I do not however see a problem with using what science is available to us now to take measure of the greater specimens so that we (collectively, breeders-not me) might determine to some extent, as an aid if you will, which are the better young pups to keep. In light of the fact that drive and instinct are so powerful (as it should be) that a dog will work for years without vital body parts (I say vital because nature has ensured that all walking things have hips). Not that the yard stick for breeding shouldn't be as it has always been but if there are scientific aids out there for todays' BC breeder that would help them solve a problem in their breeding program. That would make their dogs healthier, then that's great too.

Also, some temperament problems that we might see in a forced socialization setting like the burbs or packed agulity trials might not be evident in dogs that are never forced to experience the close proximity of strangers like farm dogs. And then how important is it for the farmer's dog to be social? It's more important for the dog to be effective in it's job. So I can see why some temperament issues are perpetuated- they either don't show up or show up so infrequently that it isn't worth considering to the breeder.

Denise, I know some cancers are inherited but some are not. Gene mutations can be caused by outside influences ao I'd want to look at that possiblity first and how young the dog was when it was diagnosed. In reality though, there are probably better choices or more plentiful choices of healthy working dogs- for instance, older (healthy 9 & 10 year olds) working/trialing stud dogs would be a great way to ensure overall health in the progeny. A problem is we often forget how nice they were in their glory days and tend to breed to the newest happening dog on the trial circuit.

Are you kidding? I'm willing to write up a press release with ABCA registered bc's of the bearded kinds pictures on them to submit to AKC registration office to the tune of "did you know that this is considered a border collie in a registry that you are accepting open reg's from?" And sign my name to it! I bet somebody calls me about it too.

I know that I've been openly attacked by randomly evil agility equipment and ended up on my face more than once!

Kat, Do you have pictures of what you mean or a video? I think that these lessons and comparisons can be shared most effectively with pictures. The way Wick is performing in that pic is my picture of close to ideal. While you are training and you HAVE to be there to teach your dog, use your body language to get the point across. Then reward for the performance you want. You should eventually be able to be out of sight (or ahead of the dog even!) and have the dog perform the contacts the same way but this can take months and months and months. Remember that part of the fun is seeing how the handler/dog relationship deepens & matures with time and training so in short it isn't just the destination that you should enjoy but make a point of enjoying the journey- and don't continue on with any method of training that frustrates your dog to the point that he quits on you. There is ALWAYS another way to get the point across to the dog and a good trainer will exhaust themselves trying to get it right.

Hehe, Yeah, but your dog actually cares where you are! I had to train mine to care lol! Rachel, Try Hauling @ss BUT when you reach past the peak of the A-frame or the top of the down side of the dogwalk, make a real conscious effort to keep your self erect. Throw your shoulders back and pick your head up. Just this much less forward motion may be enough to cue you dog to slow down so you can work your contact. And remember to work the contact until the exercise is over. So often our own adrenaline takes place and we cut contact working short-expecially in trials. IOW, don't think about the next obstacle until the contact has been worked to satisfaction.

I want the dog's eyes on me for a release, not necessarily from a raised head position. There have also been some very fast green BCs who have busted their faces on the floor at indoor trials. They were trained with target dishes. Maybe that is the handler's fault for not fading them properly before setting off to trial the dog. I over handle contacts, I admit but I have to or my dog will blow them. I've been taught this way by the Boltons and in 4 years of training this dog this has been the only way I can gain control of what happens at the contacts. Of course I first taught running contacts...But Indy is a short little guy. Even so he can blow any down contact. I don't want him looking at me while running. I want him to look at me when he gets his 2 feet on the ground. The exercise looks like, this: dog runs down, places 2 feet on the floor and looks at mom for the release. If for some reason he doesn't see mom, he stays put. I'm sure it looks like most people's contacts of 2 on 2 off but I broke it up differently I guess I can change the contact exercise & can even call downs on a contact, so I can get his eyes and release him with an "OK" All calling the down does in this instance is get him to shift his weight back for just a second. Either way I do it (2 exercises with 2 different voice cues) if the separate exercise is to look for the release, I can call "bottom" or "down" and it doesn't matter because the "look for release" is separate. All this is, is training him to wait for a release FROM ME before continuing on. I'm also pretty darned fast and I do my absolute best to be there for him. This has basically been a retraining of something I messed up from the get go and now I have to make the exercise very different and very clear to him. I know the next question is "why teach different exercises at the bottom of a contact?" I have a dog that would be just as happy reading the courses and running them without me, but alas he doesn't get to walk them beforehand. I have to keep him thinking. I have to over work him just so that he will even care that I'm there with him. So I mix things up to keep them interesting. I also generally mix up the jump heights in practice so he has to think about taking the jumps. He is a very hard dog to run. This is actually working for me.

Erica, I think Gonzo is insecure due to the introduction of ambiguity in the training of contacts. If I were you, I would train 2 on 2 off. I would put him back on lead and train him to "touch" while not allowing him to bail. Once he knows what is expected of him and can "Get it right", he will have fun and be happy. Bailing off is an avoidance behavior-Gonzo doesn't want to be wrong. When I train 2 on 2 off, all treats come from me but the dog's position on the equipment comes from me too. I put him in position and then treat. I want a dog to do the contact while looking to me, not the ground. I used to use target dishes but found fading them necessary, time consuming, and not as effective as I'd like them to be.

Hehe. I have an idea. Let me think a bit.

In her pastern (wrist)? My doggie came to me with a broken toe so I don't know. She had obviously torn her toenail out at some point in time so the vet believed that the break occurred at the same time. This is what made us think the lameness was in her foot but it was really in her shoulder which was evidenced by a large amount of scar tissue that showed up about 2 months after she was injured.

Now don't you feel better?! I had a similar thing happen to a foster dog but it was a soft tissue shoulder injury. Because we couldn't find where the injury was exactly (she also had a broken toe!) she ended up needing surgery. My next advise is if she doesn't show improvement real soon and the vet seems to be getting no where with treating it to get her to a specialist. I ended up having to request a specialist, it wasn't offered to me.

Inu, your vet can get some idea of what's wrong upon initial inspection. If it is broken and you wait too long you can make things worse if it starts to heal wrong, then she needs surgery and could end up lame for life- retired permanently from SAR. Don't let your fear of anestesia, keep her from getting proper medical care. You will kick yourself if you make things worse.

I know Corey you are right to an extent. However, I do question changing a dog's bit inhibition in regards to human without extensive temperament testing. Sheepherding and agility can also boost confidence in an underconfident dog without making it ok to put teeth on people.

Hi, You should look around for a place near you that gives puppy obedience and agility classes and start her on both at once. If you don't know where- the links below can help. If nothing else, attend a trial or 2 and meet people. There are things you do not want your young puppy to just attempt so please don't just go buy a book and get started on your own. You can end the fun of agility before it even gets started that way. You can get info at http://www.usdaa.com and http://www.k9cpe.com

My general advise is that at 7 months they aren't ready to be off a leash outside at all because you can't control their response to you if they are. Inside, don't give a command unless you can enforce it. My last pup was this way as an adolescent but has turned around. I didn't really notice a big difference until she was over 18 months tho. She's very responsive now. At almost 2 I think she is finally going to be ok when I put her to stock again:)

Casey, As a dog groomer, I ask people what they have their dogs on as a loose survey. IMO based on the feedback I've had from clients and the overall presence of fleas and ticks found in the bath, Frontline and Advantage work best. On the east coast, I found that those dogs using sentinel had more fleas on them than FL. or ADV.

We don't compete. I do agility in other venues instead. I have had a fleeting thought for Shutzhund at the lower levels and I know that some BCs could do it but you have to have a very temperamentally steady dog and for one reason or another I've crossed off my BCs for that training. Delta would never have the nerve to compete in close quarters with other humans and Buffy might like the "gripping the human" part too much.

Aerie, I'm so sorry. You were so concerned from the very beginning. Hugs to you.

Imported dogs can be registered with the AKC. My Sheltie is imported and registered with AKC. As long as they are worked and proven for breeding why not develop the bearded ABCA registered collie, even if it was only a couple of generations worth, if the AKC dropped our working dogs like hot potatos it would be worth it. I know it's against our fundamentals to breed for hair on the face even for a couple of litters but purposly drawing attention to to this could be for the greater good.

Luisa, That picture of Christine's is very compelling indeed. I have all my fingers & toes crossed that James is registered too. I say we could find a way to get our dogs excluded if dogs like James are registered with ABCA. I'd never finger that dog on looks for a working sheepdog. In fact my eyes are saying that everything about that dog in that picture looks like a BC with the exception of his hair but it is still rather hard to believe.

Yay Kip! She knew you were nervous so she decided to have them without you. What a considerate girl. What did that last boy look like? No rest for you, you have to post baby & momma pics.