Annette Carter & the Borderbratz

Well you guys just stick to your guns and set the example for good sense. Maria, They know what our position is and they don't want to hear it. I'm a convert of the conformation clan on just about all breeds except those that are bred strictly as companions (most toy breeds). How they don't see the difference in what they breed and what the working BC is beyond me.

I think that pulling every healthy tooth out of a young dog's mouth would be so painful as to be considered inhumane. It's not like an older dog with such severe gum disease that the jaw bone erodes and lets loose the teeth. If it were a highly recommended thing Suze, people would do it I think...

48 hours without food for a puppy isn't really great. Try getting some chicken broth in her and maybe some nutrical in the morning. If she isn't feeling better by morning, I'd call the vet for sure. Is it possible that she got into something she shouldn't have, even before you got her? I'm just saying because I picked up an older BC pup once that had a couple of rubber (jax) balls in his gut from the small child he lived with before me. Better to be safe than sorry- it takes a bit but they can go downhill fast at 8 weeks.

Vicki, That is a liability for you! And your other dogs & rescues need you. I wouldn't chance it and think that the most humane thing you could do (for him and others)would be to let him go. Way to many really NICE dogs need homes Hugs to you, I know it's a hard thing to do (or even consider doing).

Eileen, Thank you! I didn't know...

Both my herding bred BCs have a definite off switch and could handle me being housebound for weeks on end and I know that Columbia mentioned that glued to the ceiling and laid back dogs can happen in either herding or show bred dogs but I want to add that with my rescue I got lucky with her temperament because I got her directly while she was on the way to the shelter and had no one with experience evaluate her for me and with my herding bred dog, I found a good breeder who knew her stuff and gave her a long list of what I wanted in a dog -off switch included, and she delivered. So either way rescue or breeder, it's important to know what you want and find someone you can trust to evaluate dogs and deliver as close to an ideal as they can for you.

Tessa, The thing is that if you breed for only a solid working border collie, everything else falls in place as it should. The working border collie is the most versatile without selecting for versatility. Therefore, all other breeding selection points are moot.

Generally, I see this as a dog seeking a way to soothe an aching tummy. If you have just gotten her and her food and routine is changed then just give it some time (2 weeks or so), she will adjust and stop eating grass on her own- provided you are giving her a good quality food. In the meantime, do not spray the grass with fertilizers or pesticides.

Hope Tibbie feels better soon. Give her a nice ear scratch from me

kt I think that in answer to your question- No there is nothing written that i know of on what makes a good BC and what good proven croses are. No one that is reputable out there lists their dog available at stud and provides videos, like horses. You have to seek people out and talk to them like farmers and wannabes have done for hundreds of years. The trade secrets are kept mystical and mysterious for a reason- if you ain't in, you're out and you have to earn your way in you can't buy your way in. I think it is the absolute best way to preserve the BC. I know this is frustrating and it stems from the fact that there is no written physical standard for BCs like there are for horse breeds (lord knows we've overbred horses and ruined many breeds too). You cannot possibly learn this *info* from reading- it's a legacy bequeathed to those that earn it. Again go to trials, watch dogs run. talk to folks- you will probably be fascinated and have a blast. Do this a few times and start making notes (or keep em in your head if you are that good) on dogs that you like and why. Then you will start developing some idea of what you like. You may discover that your girl is a nice fancy Toyota and a whole world of Jaguars and Bentleys is just waiting for you. What I'm saying is that with this information you will have more decisions to make, more choices available to you, but you can't know if you don't go find out.

kt, I do understand what you are going through in your head. I've been there many times before. It all comes down to once it's done, it's done and you can't take it back. I went through that with both Sheltie boys I've had. Both were sired by dogs who have produced over 50 champions. The boy I have now, Indy is a brother to an agility Ch who has won the gold for the world team for the minis. So proven beauty and brains there. I also happen to know what I'm doing in regards to breeding shelties but I neutered my boys instead. And before I did I went through exactly what you are going through. I even had some major anxiety on the day of the surgery because I knew I couldn't take the decision back so I understand where you are coming from. Aerie does have a point and you have to understand that her traumatic experience will forever color how she views the issue. Unfortunately, neglect is a form of abuse that is all too common. One other question. Do you understand that BC culls (dogs that don't have as good a working drive) still don't make great dogs for people who want an average pet? And are you prepared to be very selective and sell your puppies with contracts which will give you the first right of refusal to buy back in the event the new owners can't keep them? Or better yet a clause that states if the original owners can't keep the dog that they must return it to you and cannot transfer ownership at all? Are you thinking about selling pups on no breeding (NB) registration? These are all things you should be thinking about implementing if you breed your dog. You should probably have a laywer draw up a contract so it's legal and binding but that usually doesn't cost too much. Not a lecture just some info that might help and questions about things that you may not have considered.

Corey, My guess is um...no. In any case, RDM what does Marley look like? Just curious kt, spaying your girl if you don't decide to breed her is a good idea. Years ago I did keep coupld of girls that were intact, one had been bred before and the other had never been bred but she'd had a couple of false pregnancies. The girl that had been bred developed pyometra and I almost lost her and the girl that had had the false pregnancies got mammary tumors starting at age 4. It became real costly to have her operated on multiple times and this did not stop after I got her spayed either. I have 2 BC girls now one I got from rescue who is a super dog - and if someone more experienced at handling than me takes her on sheep, she looks great. With me we still are able to move the beasties where we want 'em in practical terms but it isn't pretty by any means. We get the job done better than I could alone. She is my heart dog and because of all we went through together we have become perfect for each other. The other girl I have was picked out for me by a sheepdog breeder and trialer. They own fairly large herds of sheep & goats and they have been doing this a long time. I tell you, I'm a very experienced dog person, heck you could even consider me a professional since I actually make money everyday in the petcare industry and I admit that if I were given a choice in that litter that I would have done an ok job picking out a dog but I would have not picked Buffy so I would not have picked the dog BEST suited to me. I can't say enough good things about the experience. It was just too easy. You don't have to answer any of these posts but I suggest you really think about some of the questions I put to you because the worst case scenario is always a possibility and it's better to prepare for it.

kt, Sorry to say this but most top trial dog owners will not stud out for any price to a girl who does not at least work all day every day. You pretty much would have to earn the right to breed in that crowd by them watching you walk the walk over time. There is more to a nice new pup than choosing his daddy based on daddy's merit. Bloodlines pair up better with certain others and some others flop in the presence of the same. If you don't know what your bloodline crosses best with then you'd best not breed your girl. I'd highly recommend talking to handlers/breeders at trials (whether you enter or not) and learn from them that way and perhaps purchase your next BC based on them choosing a pup for you. If you decide to do this anyway I'd ask you what kind of homes you have lined up? Not serious working homes I'm guessing. Would a pup with a top working trial daddy be happy in the types of homes you pick out? Or will they spend their lives waiting at the back door with a frizbee in their mouths and no one to play with for 10 hours a day? Are you truly aware of the responsibilities of a breeder? If your girl has 7 babies, did you know that you are responsible for those seven lives for the next 15 or so years? Ask yourself if all seven grown BCs came back home to you with neurotic problems, would you take them back possibly never to leave again? Because this is your ultimate responsiblity as a breeder. My next dog will be an already trained dog that I can learn from- no more puppies for me for a good while.

Can you join the handlers association without being a real "handler" yet? I mean without having entered a trial?

I guess that putting a stop to dual registered dogs will probably hurt the ABCA financially but maybe we need to talk about what the potential financial loss will be & how to offset it as best as possible.

Sell all pups on non breeding registrations unless selling to a reputable breeder/handler who does the same. Make sure there are provisions for lifting that non breeding registration based on merit and/or make it possible for the breeder of the dog to lift the stipulation. Deregister dual registered dogs! I do not know how we could find out if a dog were registered other than announced winnings and I know that some of the eventing dogs are ILPed. If there is a way to research this info but it involves too many man hours or something then I VOLUNTEER just give me ideas on where to look and I will provide ABCA with monthly reports. It's the least I can do outside of just paying my dues.

How feasable would it be to rename the registry and not tell them?... United States Border Collie Association or United States Working Border Collie Registry.

Bill, You make your point very nicely. I'm beginning to think that breeding, developing, and maintaining BCs as a breed is a bit like our still developing nation. It takes all kinds (liberals, conservatives, moderates), lending themselves to the big picture (our constitution) to make something truly great. If any one group had their way totally then the resulting product might not be the same great thing. Since breeding BCs is more of an art then it's imperative that the artists pass their art down to apprentices or like many great arts, it may become lost. It's a large responsibility you individuals who breed carry. Consider: if only people of a certain frame of mind are passing on their art then the BC will inevitably change in 30 years and maybe not to your (collective you) liking. Facinating discussion guys. I'm learning quite a bit here. Thanks.

Yes Luisa that is a TORTILLA and it was called that prior to the 1600's. Mexicans were just learning Spanish then right? Edit! Oh yes we eat popcorn- but it's fairly recent and nobody eats tons like here in the US- it is called "palomitas" there. Ves! No somos tan barbaros..

Luisa, That causes a chuckle for me because in Spain, we don't eat corn or corn based foods- it's considered pig feed only. I always got wierd looks in the grocery store when I checked out with canned del monte nibblets I really don't think I could find a flour, let alone corn, tortilla prepackaged anywhere in the country. If you want them you have to make them from scratch. Ummm, I guess the i-5 is reachable from i-10?

Hey Melanie! I'm not up by you but I do plan on hitting the trials near the middle of the state. Like you, I'm new and don't quite know exactly what's in the middle of CA yet but I'll get there. Welcome to CA!

I ran from Hurricane Georges. I threw everyone in the van with all the dog food and a weeks worth of clothes and went on vacation to Hot Spring AR. Never been there before so it was great. Motel 6 & Red Roof Inns are usually very dog friendly. My recommendation: if there's enough warning, go on a forced vacation. I could have done that way cheaper and camped too, although at the time I didn't really spend more than $500.00 so not too bad. I was gone for about a week. I figured that if my stuff was part of a disaster area, that the mess would be there when I got home in a couple of days. Here for earthquakes, we keep lots of water and MRE's on hand (food soldiers eat in the field-emergency rations). Candles, Matches, Batteries. There is no where to run from an earthquake so you have to stay and deal with it.

PS. He was already half way through is puppy kindergarten class so we were working on recalls, sits, & downs.

I guess I have a differing opinion. I feel that when they are this young they learn things faster and with less fear. This is my 12 week old shetland sheepdog learning agility obstacles - I also taught how to go through the uprights of single bar jumps on command with no bars on them. I do not teach the teeter or weavepoles until a dog is physically mature and I do not introduce any jump height higher than a dog's elbows until physical maturity as well. I am very near by in these pictures and he had been training for a full 3 weeks by this photo shoot.

The ACK has a provision set up where the owner of a male may proposition the owner of a female to lease that girl for a specific time period. It is not considered declase if the proper lease fee is offered and the amount is not insulting.