CoRayBee

Thanks, Spike- I got your email but just haven't had a chance to reply. I will, though- you brought up some interesting ideas. Barra currently weighs 41lbs at 22" tall- probably the heaviest she's been but still not visibly overweight.I feed her a brand called Foundations Senior/Weight Management (as much as I don't like the idea of calling her a "senior" ) made by a Canadian company called Petcurean. The details are here: http://www.petcurean.com/product_table.html And Julie, please don't worry about sounding like a broken record! You can never suggest something often enough if it turns out to be the cause of a pet's illness. At this point I won't rule anything out, I want to get to the bottom of this.

....or maybe that should read "same liver issues, different day"....... Please bear with me, this might get lengthy. I'm hoping that this might catch the attention of some of the veterinary types on this board because I am STUMPED. Way back in May I took Barra to the vet with the intention of having a couple of lipomas removed from her chest. They hadn't really grown significantly but they just FEEL wierd...that loose-lump-under-the-skin unpleasantness. We did some preliminary bloodwork because of her age and the results were pretty shocking- as it turned out her liver enzyme levels were extremely high. After 4 weeks of anti-inflammatories/antibiotics (ugh) the levels had come down to nearly normal. Well, I made the mistake (wink) of taking her back to the vet last week in preparation of getting on Pet Plan insurance. Of course, we had to do all sorts of bloodwork again, and guess what? Her liver enzyme count (ALT?) had skyrocketed again, even higher than before. Keep in mind, this is a dog that has shown absolutely no outward symptoms whatsoever. No change in activity level/behaviour, no change in appetite, and (not to be gross) the quality & quantity of her stool is the same. All other tests were fine, including a urinalysis. So we took a trip to the specialists for an abdominal ultrasound. They also did some aspirates. As it turns out her liver looks normal, but there was some thickening of the wall of her duodenum which lent the vet to believe that maybe this was inflammatory in nature. She is back on another 4 week course of medication, and I have added (at the vet's recommendation) Vitamin E and Milk Thistle to the regimen. We will recheck things in a month. I have not totally ruled out the possibility that a biopsy might be needed, either. Another BIG ugh. Has anyone else experienced any sort of trouble like this? Like I said, I am stumped as to what the he** is causing it. This is not a dog who gets into garbage, there is no real risk of pesticide ingestion, and her diet is a good commercial one. How can the rest of her be- for all outward appearances- just fine when this is happening? I am relieved that she doesn't show any other symptoms but I'm VERY worried about just what long term damage is being done to her liver. And she cannot stay on antibiotics indefinitely. She's not even 9 years old and I am NOT ready yet to consider the unmentionable. Thank you for letting me vent! Even if nobody has any suggestions, I'm just grateful to you all for listening.

Well, this one a)is not in Canada; and b)is not a border collie either, but my sister and brother in law's husky/beagle mix has taken to toad-licking. MUCH to my sister's disgust. They live in Wichita, KS and apparently a toad moved onto their front porch this spring. Foreman has apparently not tried eating the thing, just licking it, and of course comes away with a mouth full of foam. That seems to be the worst thing that happens but they have taken to surveying the yard each morning to ensure it is amphibian-free before Foreman goes out. Fortunately (?) it gets really @!#* hot in Kansas in summer, so la Toad seems to have taken off to a cooler locale. Nobody has thought to ask Foreman just what sort of pretty lights he sees after toad-licking, or if the walls look like they're melting or not....

Originally posted by krazy15k: You hate to completely shut a door until you have truly made an informed decision. I'm curious....did you read Rebecca's or RDM's posts at all?

The best suggestions I received when I bought my whistle were a)that the cheapest whistles are not always a great bargain- sometimes they work and sometimes they don't, so you'll most likely be buying a few of them; B)a really cool lanyard is ALWAYS a great fashion accessory; and c)the best place to practice using the whistle is in your car on the way to work (so noone else can hear you,) and bring a nice absorbent bib.

Originally posted by rtphokie: People often make fun of what they don't understand; don't let their ignorance affect you. Message recieved LOUD and CLEAR.............. As I said in my previous post (did you even bother to read it?) I am open to methods of treatment like Tellington TTouch. I would love to see the veterinary endorsement and/or the successful studies of the anxiety wrap. I know bloody well that a modified version of this is being used for children with autism. I am not completely ignorant, thank you very much, rtphokie. I simply did not think that I was alone in wanting to hear about studies before I was willing to part with my well earned money on a product I and my veterinarian had never heard of before. Apparently I was mistaken.

Originally posted by kbender: To anyone who doesn't have this problem with their dog, you're lucky. But don't make jokes. I DO actually have a dog that is pretty much paralyzed during thunderstorms (and Halloween, and Canada Day, and New Year's Eve, you get the idea.) I have even had to replace a sofa due to the mess she made of it- think bodily fluids in large amounts. She now gets put in her crate, in the bedroom (her usual sleeping place) with the door closed and the radio turned up. In extreme cases I've given her Valerian root. I don't like drugging my dog but just enough valerian will sedate her without knocking her into next week. My 'jaded' reply was more or less meant to convey my distrust of something that, initially, sounds very much like somebody's latest scheme to help concerned pet owners part with more money. I would be much more open to talking to someone about trying Tellington TTouch or similar therapy (something I can do for my dog myself.)

Originally posted by GeorgiaBC: I've got some special anxiety water I can send you for $50 bucks a pint. rofl!!! Darnit, you beat me to it!!

Thanx for the info, Kristi. Yay Jennifer!! ps....is Lou all psyched for Fraser Valley?

*chokes on her beer* Oh, but the jokes are a-runnin' wild in my tiny little brain right now- most of which are not printable in polite company... Thanks for the laugh, Kristi!

Very good points about the agility and sheepherding! While I do love doing everything I can with my girl, I admit that there's nothing that I enjoy MORE than taking her to the farm to do what she was born to do. The thing about Schutzhund is that, when you get down to it, it is simply that- another sport you can do with your dog. (I am not saying it's right or wrong, that's just what it is.) A certain level of confidence/nerve in the dog is definitely needed but the dogs are not being trained to bite people. They bite the equipment. The decoys/helpers are not the dogs' adversaries, they are more like sparring partners. A large percentage of dogs on a Schutzhund trial field would never dream of acting like that in real life. They've been trained to put on an impressive show, and to love to bite the arm sleeve. Like Barra, for example- she is French Ring trained (retired now.) She is naturally protective and will bark ferociously if given the command to do so. But that's it. I don't believe she would go really civil on anyone, but shake a bamboo clatter stick and have someone in a bite suit run by, and she goes nutty. Sorry Annette (and everyone,) I'm goin' a wee bit OT, I realize that this thread was actually about obedience! It probably sounds like I am getting a bit defensive and I apologize. I have just had more than a few discussions with people who are horrified to learn that I've done "attack" training with my dog and I feel the need to clarify when I can.

Originally posted by Annette Carter & the Borderbratz: I have had a fleeting thought for Shutzhund at the lower levels and I know that some BCs could do it but you have to have a very temperamentally steady dog *puts on flame-resistant jacket* Don't disregard it till you try it. There are tougher things to attempt with a border collie than Schutzhund- style bitework, and if done properly it is an enormous confidence boost.

Originally posted by amc: I wonder why PETA hasn't jumped on this with 'all fours'? Hmmm...I don't know if these are the sort of people you want to ask for 'help.' www.activistcash.com/organization_blackeye.cfm/oid/21

Originally posted by SHANDALEI: be cautious with what you say, this isn't over yet. How sweet...more threats....

having.....hard time....typing.... fingers....cramped up............. Sucked me in for half an hour- sort of embarassing for a NON flyball person

I just posted a question under the original Awesome Border Collies thread, maybe it should have gone here instead...what if everyone were to email the directors of the Mo. Dept of Agriculture and express their outrage? The email addresses are on the Dept's webpage- or check out my other post. I don't know if it would make one iota of difference (generally once an idiot's mind is made up it's difficult to change it) but if enough people wrote, maybe it would get someone's attention? edit: my sister and brother in law live in Kansas, so I emailed them to see if they know of anyone a bit closer who might be willing to "buy" some dogs...

Okay...so how's about everyone email the Mo Dept of Agriculture and, ahem, express their opinion on how this affair is being handled? Perhaps politely inform them that media involvement is assured if they don't stop doing what they're doing with these poor dogs? :mad: :mad: :mad: Director- Fred Ferrell Fred.Ferrell@mda.mo.gov Ass't director- Matt Boatright Matt.Boatright@mda.mo.gov Communications Director- Misti Preston Misti.Preston@mda.mo.gov (collected from the Mo Dept of Ag website) You certainly don't have to live in Missouri to feel real sympathy to the unfortunate dogs and those doing all they can to save them, and FURY at the apparent complete idiocy of the people making decisions affecting the lives of these dogs.

Originally posted by Annette & the Borderbratz: Oh go figure- Potato was on that list of toxic foods too! Okay...makes you wonder about either the validity of the report or the anxiety level of the reporters, because aren't the so-called 'hypoallergenic' diets basically fish or duck and potato? Or are the makers of these diets mistaken? And Annette- no drinking and "driving," huh? I will have to break it to Barra gently...and make sure she gives me back her keys....

Originally posted by IronHorse: To much nitro gycerine will kill ya or blow you up but in the right amount it will save you life just as easy. Interesting comparison.... Like you said, everything in moderation. Good words for humans to live by, too. My girl has been getting garlic on and off for the better part of 8 years now. Her breath is fine, her innards seem to be in proper working order, and I have never had a flea problem. I realize that garlic cannot take all the credit for this but I think deserves at least a little. Funny- I saw that hops was on Annette's link as well. I suppose I will have to start cutting back on Barra's lager intake (sigh)

Originally posted by Annette & the Borderbratz: Decreasing the protien intake, increasing carb intake, and adding the suppliment 5-HTP yielded a significant decrease in aggression scores. Interesting reading (and I'm not being sarcastic, honest!) Nicholas Dobson wrote a book about nine years ago titled "The Dog Who Loved Too Much." It ran through a few heartbreaking individual accounts of dogs' behavior changes, and most times his response was to reduce the protein in the dogs' diet and treat the undesirable behavior with medication (I believe his drug of choice was Prozac.) This is oversimplifying of course, but that's the gist of it. Granted, this book was written in 1996 and the author is (was?) a behavioral pharmacology professor, but it would be interesting to see just what (if anything) has changed in this treatment regime.

Congrats to Scott and Pleat- yipeee! Doesn't really matter if they come in first or last, just the fact that he had the opportunity to go over and compete is pretty darned cool. Hi Wendy- any chance Rural Route videos is going to publish THIS one??? If so, sign me up like NOW. ps, I have watched the 2004 ISDS International about 4 times now and can't get enough. Thanx again!

How true......

Originally posted by Annette & the Borderbratz: Apparently, I'm a glutton for draggin my soul uphill. Huh..there's a country song in there somewhere Seriously though, that 'certificate' this dog trainer holds- I wonder how old it is, how she received it and who gave it to her? If she is willing to work with you then more power to you, but someone who isn't willing to open her mind to less harsh training methods might just wake up after she discovers all her students are gone. I wish you every success in helping her see the light, but if she doesn't I wouldn't worry about taking business away from her if there are enough dog owners listening to you. People can make their own choices, right? If they choose to try it your way and get results, that sort of speaks for itself.

Originally posted by Shewster (or what I imagine I am hearing, anyway:) blah blah blah, etc etc etc I have heard that if you just ignore gnats and other annoying things they usually lose interest and GO AWAY...........

Originally posted by Shewster: First, I don't respond to those who can't spell and never will. You spelled 'unconscionable' incorrectly in your fourth post on this topic. Still waiting on an answer to Denise's question.....