Borderco1

No its Bravo! frozen tripe, its nasty and not for humans!! lol I was thinking of adding it to every few meals. He eats once a day and right now is at 1.5 lbs per days plus 3 chicken wings, but seems to be loosing weight. He is a big dog, 24 in and around 47 lbs, and is very active. So because tripe has a lot of cals. I was thinking just add a half cup every two-three days would help him out. Thanks everyone!

So I feed my cat and dog Bravo! raw food plus some other meats, etc. Its not too expensive and I am lazy, plus I can get really cool meats. Anyhow, I bought some green tripe and have no clue how to feed it, as a meal?? small amounts in a few meals?? Does anybody feed it and can help me out?

First dog as a child: A border collie Missy First dog as an adult: I was 17 when I got MacIntosh, so I will say my beloved Jack.... both Border collies Why a BC?: I grew up with them and I like a working dog Did you do research? Yes I have reserched the breed since we got missy when I was 5 years old First BC: Missy. MT pound puppy was supposed to be a little lap dog, turned out to be 4 week old border collie. Great dog and great teacher. What made you want to get another? While I love many different breeds and will always own some different breeds, I enjoy border collies for the amount of training and activities you can take part in with just the one dog. So I will always have at least one. What have you done with your dogs? What haven't I done. Search and rescue is their main job, but when Jack was alive he did everything from SAR to gun dog work to agility to flyball. He had pretty much had some level of training in every dog sport and had been on sheep a few times. Mac has done lots as well, but mainly sheep. He has bad ankles now so no jumping for the old boy. How many BC's? Right now, just Mac. I lost Jack at age three to kidney faliure. I am on a list for another puppy, but the bitch hasn't been bred again yet and last time she didn't produce enough males. So alas I wait. I hope to get two in the next year or so. I need two so they can work different jobs. I think two is my max for border collies so I can have room for other dogs as well. How many do you have now? One What "quirks" have you noticed with all your dogs? All of mine have been pretty much one person working dogs. Friendly with others, but focused on work not making friends. They have all been great with any animal I bring into the house. Which I think speeks well for a dog with so much prey drive to understand which cats, rabbits, etc are ours and need to be left alone and which are not and can be chased. City dog or country dog? CT country if there is such a thing, but I do hope to move somewhere more rural within my next pups lifetime. (I want Sheep!!!! and washington state sounds like my kind of place!) Would you ever get another breed? Yes I love working breeds. German Shepherds (working lines only) and german shorthaired pointers have made my interested list. I think the GSP would be the first non BC I get. I also love other herding breeds, Shelties, corgies, and aussies (both shepherds and cattle dogs)

Eileen and Julie, I want to thank you for the effort in your responses. I hope my online posts were not viewed in a hostile manner, I meant them as more of a questioning tone. I also tried to make it clear I did understand a number of working bred dogs could be used for SAR with great success. I understand and thank you for expanding on my short prey drive answer for why dogs work in both aspects. I do think I took the word "bond" to be the main issue with reguards to the dogs work. I think relationship is a much better word, and leaves me in agreement with what everyone is saying. Your relationship with dogs herding vs other dog activities is different, that I understand and can even see it in my own dogs. I won't say it is better or worse but just different. As for my herding dog, age and health will limit his learning, but I will continue learning and expand my interest once I have less on my plate with a new dog or puppy. Oh and for the original topic I don't feel talked down to by anyone on the board and I enjoy reading it as often as I can!

First I want to say that I in no way support breeding border collies for anything other than stock work. I have a rescue that I do take lessons with and would love to someday be able to compete. Then I have my working bred border that I do SAR with. I do train both my dogs in dog sports and they are pets. I have no issue with understanding that border collies were bred to herd, but what is herding if not the hunt without the kill. I just see search and rescue as the first part of the hunt and herding as the second. It stems from prey drive, and it is that drive that both things tap into and I feel as though the bond with the handler when the dog is using that drive is pretty much the same. I can say that when both of my dogs leave me to do their different jobs they do so because everything in them is telling them it is what they are born to do. My search dog loves the search, you can see it when you watch his pure joy at running in the woods reading every breeze, finding spots where he naturally knows scent will pool, working the wind to his advantage, etc. So is it the being bred for herding that has second hand made him so good at his job, or is it that because he was bred to do a job (herding in his case) he didn't lose that natural ability that all dogs had at one point? Either way I think my point is that I don't see a difference in a stock dog handlers bond and someone else who uses the same drive in other ways but to that same level. If anything I think it is the human side of the bond that places the difference. As said on this board, many people feel guilty or nostalgic about not being able to have their dogs herd although their dog has no such feelings. From my point I have to say my bond with my SAR is much stronger and on a whole different level than my bond to my herding rescue. Now I don?t, as Bill does, need my herding dog to earn a living, heck I don't even need him to herd. I do however need my SAR dog so I can clear an area in time to save someone from possible injury or death. I think that is the only difference between my two dogs.

So I wonder how different a sport dog person, or therapy dog, etc relationship is from someone who does not in fact make their living from livestock, as a growing number of sheepdog people don't. What makes their relationship that much different from an agility handler? Part time herding, the dog can win or loose and still be a loved pet. Is the difference solely in the fact that one is herding while the other is not. I mean the reliance on the dog is the same isn't it? No one will lose the house or food on the table if the dog fails on any venture. And as stated a dog can't miss what it doesn't know so how could the bond of one dog doing herding and one dog doing agility be that much different? I also don't understand the comparison of search and rescue to any dog sport or recreational herding. I am using my dog?s innate skills as a dog, regardless of breed; he was born to know how to hunt with his nose, read his surrounding, etc. I am using that ability to find people. If my dog fails people could die, I don't see that in any relation to running around over some jumps or even herding for fun. People will say that my dog thinks its a game, which is true I suppose to an extent, but as Catu stated when you are alone with a dog for days on end in horrible conditions, there is more there to the dog then a "game?. You are partners with him, and the trust you have in each other isn't something I think a lot of people will understand. So I think if the sole difference in the bond or relationship is if you are working with the dog in a capacity that is natural to him, then herding is not the only activity in which a border collie and handler can have the magical steak-eating bond.

Maybe its just me, but is anyone looking at it from the dogs point of view? I traveled back from the UK with my dog and maybe it is just that he is a tall border collie, but I wouldn't want to make him cram in some tiny space to save a buck or to "know" he was alright... I let him ride in the specail pet baggage hold, talked to the airline about the area he would be riding in, pestered flight attendants to make sure he was on the plane,etc. He got to ride in his large crate (which he is use to and loves to be in when he is stressed) with plenty of room, bones to chew, water, and a nice soft bed. Now he is in training to be a SAR dog but I wouldn't ever use that unless going to a mission just for his comfort. I found the airline staff more than understanding and helpful, and Jack got into Boston well rested and calm. Sure I was a little stressed but I didn't need him to be too.

I would only own a working bred dog. Border collies (of course) Working German shepherds (NOT german or american show lines) Malinois (I lOVE them) Dutch shepherd I would love another sheltie one day (token little dog) or maybe a papillion or JRT. I would own a pit if the right rescue came about. Other than that I wouldn't really own any other breed....

Just a guess from watching my dogs play with each other, but when they play fight, they bow and then one will go up and bite the scruff/face/neck area of the other and then either run off to be chased or just stay and wrestle. Could that be what she is doing?? Cause if I understand you right it isn't a case of outward aggression.

Donna, here you go! The Voices in Blood He's only your pet collie, romping on a sunlit lawn, Or sleeping on a run before the fire. Though his role in life is just to be a friend beyond compare, He's a servant more than worthy of his hire. For if his fate should call him to a dozen different tasks, He could do each one incomparably well; Adapting to each changed demand, intelligent and keen, In all things he is destined to excel. You might see him in Obedience and watch him winning Crufts, Or in the Working Trails, achieving T.D.ex, Or racing through Agility, (and he could be a bitch, For competence does not depend on sex!) You could mark his patient searching in a devastated town, Through the ruins that an earthquake leaves behind. Or proud in his white harness, see him walk the streets, A rare, but special Guide Dog for the Blind. He may never even glimpse the sheep that he was bred to herd, (As Mountain Rescue Dog he would ignore them!) But all true collies listen to the voices in their blood Of ancestors who proudly went before them. He is able to diversify because of what he is, From his long history derives his worth. Guide, search, champion, yes! But first of all The best and wisest herding dog on earth. So understand him if one day an ancient memory stirs, And he casts out round a most indignant cat! And does his level best to bring her in to you, because His long dead forebears told him to do that. There are those who would attempt to breed his herding instinct out, Dismissing it as something they don't need. If they don't want the working genes that make him what he is They'd do well to find themselves another breed. Through he's only your pet collie, fast asleep before the fire, Or playing with the children on the lawn; Still Man has no right to silence those voices in his blood, That remind him of the reason he was born. by Pat Brown

Eileen , maybe I am wrong, but on another Border collie board Brildwn has posted pictures of herself with all those dogs and puppies she says she has bred. I am not sure this is a made up kennel, but rather a poorly planned and run breeding program. I don't think she posts here because too many people will call her out on it, where as the other board people tend to be nicer and not start fights or point to the errors in her ways as much.

My Jack is big for a border at 23 1/2 inches and we have to work to keep him at 40 lbs. He is a smooth coat and you can see his ribs a bit, but also his muscles. I have had the RSPCA called on me after my well intentioned neighbors called thinking I didn't feed him. They came and agreed with my vet he is a nice example of a fit and healthy border collie. He runs five-ten miles a day with me, does SAR training for about 30 min at least a day, along with at least an hour of ball,agility and basic training. If he was straving I would think his legs would fail him and he would lay down and quit at some point, to date he has never stopped. At only 18 months I hope he will fill out to about 45 with added muscle mass, but if he doesn't that's fine with me. If I were you I could consult your vet, if you dog is at 50 something pounds sounds fine to me. Sounds like he has a nice home with you though!

Miztiki, thanks for the suggestion! I will give it a try this weekend and report back. I will do more looking on the cod liver oil, although if I can get fish into his diet I would more than likely scrape the whole extra oil thing altogether. I hope you have a wondeerful time in NC, sounds like you all will have a blast! My opinion on the veggies is that Jack hasn't had anything except meat, organs, and bones for four months. He has been to the vet twice both times getting two paws up (he has had his blood work done in that time as well). I haven't seen him eating my backyard plants for nurishment so I just leave them out.

Hey thanks for doing this. I just have a quick question about feeding fish. My Jack is much like your Boy in his allergy issues, I have been doing the raw thing for four or so months. Jack now eats, duck, chicken, beef, turkey, rabbit, some pork, but I am having a hard time with fish. I have only been able to get canned salmon and mackral, but the problem is he has really really loose stools when he eats it. I only feed at night so he has the whole night to rest and digest, but if fish was on the menu he will need to wake me up to go out and it isn't pretty. All his other stools are the normal whitish crumble kind. Someone advised putting rice with it, but that is a no go as he has allergies to rice. He eats the fish very gusto, but I haven't been able to get his system use to it. Do you suggest feeding him fish for a straight week? So far I have only done three days before I stopped and went back to a safe meat source. I do add cod liver oil to his meals daily and he handles that fine. Any advice anyone has would be very well received! Thanks!

I only lurk on this board, but Steve's posts often brought a smile to my face. He sounded like quite a character and a fighter as well. I hope he is happy and pain free where ever he is. Send my love, thoughts and prayers to his family and friends.

Looks like they just switched to the CKC, but still running what looks like a puppy mill.

My Jack is right about 23.5 inches and 40 pounds. He is not a light boned dog, but is very thin. We fight to keep any weight on him, he is a smooth coat and you can see some of his ribs. Our vet says he is in fine health and his coat is wonderful. The vet thinks he will gain a few pounds in muscle mass as he matures (he is 15 months) , but we don't expect him to get over 45 lbs.

Just wanted to say good luck to you!! My Jack has allergies to a lot of things, at first I switched him to a food the vet recommended but didn't get the results I wanted. I switched to barf a few months ago and he is wonderful now, no scratching, no bald spots, and is coat his so shinny he gets stopped on the street!! I feed only chicken wings, beef, cod liver oil, livers, and a powder vitamin my vet gave me. Hope Boy is feeling better soon!!

I would add that breeding for looks does the opposite of making a breed healthier. The english bulldog comes to mind, bred so much for looks they can't breath or give birth by themselves. There are many other exampls but that was just one.

None of you were wasting your time, I did learn a lot from this thread. Although I am still months off my first lessons and years away from ever thinking about getting sheep. I am researching like crazy and enjoy any new things I learn. I admire the fact that time after time you respond to people's questions however silly. I have seen this on this thread and other threads. People coming on the board and not taking very good advice. I am not sure I would have the patience to keep trying to get others to understand, but am happy to know some people. do. Anyhow keep up the good work!!

www.littlehats.net is a great place for you to go and read about the basics. They also have trainers listed. They have two listed in PA. Listen to everything the wise border collie people say, I am just as new as you to sheepherding though I have no breeding plans at all. I have learned more on this board about working border collies and I have had the breed my whole life. And as someone that wishes I could do more time wise for rescue, but does give a lot of money, really consider your choice on breeding. Best of luck to you and your dogs.

I, myself, would not support anything put out by Koehler , I find his training way out of line, and yes there are parts that work but there is a lot that is just straight abuse. But some good training books I actually liked. Barbara Sykes "Understanding Border collies". Not too much of a training book although it does have a lot of training advice. Suzanne Clothier and Patricia B. McConnell I have read and enjoyed, both I consider far better trainers than anything Koehler puts out.

I know at least with FEMA here is the states the dog must have a bark alert as it is the only one which can be understood when the handler is out of sight and so that the handler can then mark the source. Most disater dogs I know work with out any collars on as a fall on the rumble it could get caught so I couldn't see using a bringse for disaster work. Does anyone know if for diaster other countries use this? I was taugt that on a site you don't want your dog running back to you over the pile as it could get hurt. With wilderness the bringse seems to be a better idea as having a large dog come bark at a peron would be scary to some.

INU, When I was training my first BC we had the same no barking issue. I wanted to get into disaster training so we had to work on it. It started out with a wisper thing more like a jaw snap then we got a bark. The best training tool I found for that was a friends Sheltie who loved to bark and would do so on command. Being a border collie Mac figured that game out quick!! My new dog Jack's (who I am trying to get as far as I can before I go back in hopes he can be my next search dog) reward is a ball on a rope, really the best of both worlds!! You can play tug and fetch, keeps him interested.

Get you dog crazy about his ball or what ever toy you plan on using. I enjoyed "So Others May Live, Caroline Hebard and her search and rescue dogs" By Hank Whitemore and Caroline Hebard. Thsi is more of just stories though Also "Search and rescue Dogs training Methods" Put out by the American rescue dog association. This is more tips dealing with searching There is another one, but I don't have it here, it deals more with scent work. I am on a two years break as I live in England for the moment but will be getting back into it once I get back to the states. Good luck to you!!!