mystiqview

My question on colour was to prevent the dilution. If you have two very sound dogs in obedience/agility abilities, and the breeding of two dogs could produce an undesired colour such as lilac which is a very serious dilution problem, wouldn't you be asking the question whether this is a wise breeding or not? I do not know where my question has so been turned around that the only reason I was breeding these two dogs was FOR THE COLOUR when it IS NOT!!!! We all know not to breed Merle to Merle because of problems. I know the two dogs ability and they are both very good which is the reason for the mating. However one also has to consider such things as the diluteness of the two dogs. I made it clear in my first post that I was basing my breeding on colour, but on the ability of these two dogs. It amazes me that how it has been so turned around by some that it is NOW THE REASON FOR THE MATING WHEN ITS NOT.

It sounds the colour question has been taken by some the wrong way. My dogs are from primarily show lines, however they have strong obedience/agility capabilities. Herding dogs (ISDS or similar) and show dogs are two vastly different groups in Australia. Much I would presume as it is overseas. The ANKC does not recognise the working sheep dogs and vice versa. Even amongst the working sheep people here, dogs which lack pigment (no matter how good the parents working ability is) are frowned upon and I know of cases where they have been drowned at birth. The question of colour comes NOT from wishing to breed colour, but to avoid severe dilutions of colour. Both dogs show very good capabilities in their chosen field of obedience/agility, which is the reason behind the thought of breeding the two. However as they are coloured dogs, there is that to be considered as well. If the board does not wish other people who are not members of the working sheep fraternity (which I am also a member of in OZ), then it should be restricted to those members and not be an open forum.

Bill, The blue bitch works very nicely in obedience. I do not participate here in herding trials. The male (who at this stage is only 5 months) is showing excellent promise for obedience. I have competed in the three sheep trials here, and they are different breedings to the ANKC dogs.. and for herding ability they win hands down as far as dogs here go. Generally speaking the fluffy ones just don't measure up unless they are in a show ring (not my interest either). I stress that both dogs will not be mated unless they pass their health tests (ie: hips/elbows/eyes, they have good CL clearance back to 5G on the bitch and 7G on dog). Here, there are limitations on what you can register to colour. Lilac and Chocolate Tri being two. Lilac I definately do not want as their so called inherited problems or possible problems. Hence my questions regarding colour. I am not breeding for colour. I want to prevent unwanted colours. I am gathering as much information as possible on colour so as to avoid a possible conflict later down the track. Heck there are no definate plans to breed these two dogs. There is that option. But the option should be based on what is likely to result rather than doing because its available. As far as I know, both dogs do not carry merle gene.

According to the ANKC website, you can only register normal black Tri. It does not say that Chocoalte Tri can be registered. I believe that there was a rule change some years past when you could register a chocolate tri. Lilac, I do not know. I know they arent favoured as they are too dilute The web link someone else posted shows a lilac coloured dog. http:www.mastamariner.com/border_collie_colours_page-02.html

Do not know about the recessive red gene. WHile the Skye's sire and dam are blue, mostly beind that is black and white except until you get about the 5th generation there are some blue dogs. Milo is from a choc/Tri dam and a choclate sire. Behind those are matings (on both sides) of either a black/white to a choclate or choclate Tri. (think Milo may be phantom choclate tri as he has rust/tan on his hocks) The only thing I do not want to have is lilac puppies. Even Choclate Tris can no longer be registered here. Do not know whether it would be safer to mate the bitch to a black dog (say maybe carrying chocolate or not) then if a puppy is worth keeping mating that back to milo. THoughts?

Does anyone have any articles on colour and breeding. I have a chocolate male who is by a choc Tri colour dam and chocolate sire and thinking of mating down the track with blue bitch who is from blue parents. Both dogs are of dark coat and as far as pedigrees can tell, do not have the merle gene. Some say I will get black and white, others do not know. I am not planning to breed for colour, just dont want something like lilac.