laurie etc

Well said Ironhorse- Freckles et al---you did what you could. Some of the hardest decisions are the wisest in the long run. (Too bad the idiot whose neglect caused the problem won't learn a lesson from this as well; but I believe things like this have a way of coming full circle...) Laurie

To take this discussion away from GHF specifically and look at the bigger picture - IMO it is the "animal rights" (American Humane, PETA, etc ) position to change animal ownership to guardianship in general. They are not talking animal welfare - they're talking animals rights. Check out the following links including the AVMA's stand on the detriment of changing the verbage. Although the term "guardian" seems innocuous and interchangeable with owner (or adopter), it could have some very big implications legally. Just food for thought... I wholly applaud rescues and their missions - but I WOULD question the alliances of any that use the term "guardian" in their contract - kind of creeps me out... Laurie American Humane's stance... http://www.americanhumane.org/site/PageSer...e=faqs_guardian AVMA's stance... http://www.avma.org/issues/policy/animal_w...e/ownership.asp NCRAOA's (North Carolina Responsible Animal Owners Alliance) stance... http://www.ncraoa.com/Guardians.html NCRAOA s' Ten Point list of why Guardian is a bad idea... http://www.ncraoa.com/articles/AR/Guardian...enPointList.pdf

woobie's mom - i sent you a pm. Laurie

Reminds me of this past weekend at a trial... When I walked into the field with Cooper - my "energizer bunny" - to give the judge our names, there was a green tennis ball sitting in the field right next to the fence. Cooper spied it - and thought about grabbing it (She's a self-made retrieving fool - and the sheep weren't set out yet). I told her to leave it - picked it up and dropped it over the fence. At that moment, the set out guy was starting to move the sheep out - and I told her to "look". She immediately locked on to the sheep -we went to the post, and she went out and nailed the class (including winning the run-off for first place later). But when we came off the field, she went looking for that ball I had dropped. The little goof ball will pick up anything to use as a toy - even old crushed beer cans or styrofoam cups if that's all that's available, But once there are sheep in the picture- she could care less about toys. It's just part of her personality that I think is so endearing- she will try to entice even strangers to throw things for her. I do have to make a point of asking people not to give in and play with her at trials- because it tends to get her higher than she already is. Laurie

Keepstone Farm Trial 1 Saturday 7/28/07 Nov/Novice (24dogs) 1 Danger Laurie Anderson 77 2 Kate Kenny Wright 76 3 Kip Cassie Jett 74 4 Haley Karin Readel 73 5 Burn Amy Yoho 71 6 Cooper Laurie Anderson 71 Pro/Novice (13 dogs) 1 Champ Andre Pelletier 73 2 Max Michael Davis 70 3 Pod Laurie Anderson 69 4 Rock-It Susan Rhoades 64 5 Kit Peggy Stein 61 6 Cub Susan Rhoades 51 Ranch (7 dogs) 1 Belle Tom Lacy 78 2 Bill Susan Rhoades 70 3 Lark Nancy Starkey 58 4 Rusty Pam Gardner 55 5 Scout Nancy Starkey 43 6 Tanner Robin Mongold 24 Keepstone Farm Trial 2 Saturday 7/28/07 Nov/Novice (25 dogs) 1 Danger Laurie Anderson 76 2 Gotta Laurie Anderson 76 3 Cooper Laurie Anderson 75 4 Kip Cassie Jett 74 5 Kate Kenny Wright 73 6 Burn Amy Yoho 72 Pro/Novice (14 dogs) 1 Max Michael Davis 78 2 Pat Tom Lacy 77 3 Kit Peggy Stein 77 4 Rock-It Susan Rhoades 75 5 Fly Sylvia Broderick 65 6 Rom Pam Gardner 63 Ranch (7 dogs) 1 Belle Tom Lacy 85 2 Rusty Pam Gardner 79 3 Bill Susan Rhoades 79 4 Lark Nancy Starkey 75 5 Tanner Robin Mongold 61 6 Scout Nancy Starkey 40 Keepstone Farm Trial 3 Sunday 7/29/07 Nov/Novice (21 dogs) 1 Cooper Laurie Anderson 77 2 Doc Peter Hall 77 3 Gotta Laurie Anderson 76 4 Kip Cassie Jett 75 5 Danger Laurie Anderson 75 6 Kate Stacy Scott 71 Pro/Novice (17 dogs) 1 Rock-It Susan Rhoades 77 2 Pat Tom Lacy 76 3 Cub SusanRhoades 76 4 Cap Peter Hall 73 5 Jill Ray Caell 70 6 Kate Billy Pritchard 68 Ranch (10 dogs) 1 Belle Tom Lacy 87 2 Bill Susan Rhoades 73 3 Rusty Pam Gardner 71 4 Tess Doug Brewer 68 5 Lark Nancy Starkey 57 6 Scout Nancy Starkey 57 Keepstone Farm Trial 4 Sunday 7/29/07 Nov/Novice (21 dogs) 1 Gotta Laurie Anderson 76 2 Doc Peter Hall 75 3 Burn Amy Yoho 74 4 Nell Billy Pritchard 74 5 Sophie Patricia Kallen 73 6 Kate Kenny Wright 72 Pro/Novice (17 dogs) 1 Pod Laurie Anderson 77 2 Rock-It Susan Rhoades 76 3 Champ Andre Pelletier 74 4 Jill Doug Brewer 72 5 Pat Tom Lacy 72 6 Bonnie Peter Hall 69 Ranch (10 dogs) 1 Tess Doug Brewer 86 2 Lark Nancy Starkey 81 3 Scout Nancy Starkey 77 4 Belle Tom Lacy 77 5 Rusty Pam Gardner 75 6 Bill Susan Rhoades 70 Overall Cumulative High Scores: Novice/Novice High Score: Laurie Anderson and Danger Nov/Novice Reserve HS: Laurie Anderson and Gotta Pro/Novice High Score: Susan Rhoades and Rock-It Pro/Novice Reserve HS: Peggy Stein and Kit Ranch High Score: Tom Lacy and Belle Ranch Reserve HS: Susan Rhoades and Bill

Diatomaceous Earth (DE) works great for killing ants and fleas - it is chemical free and is totally safe around people, pets, well... anything that doesn't have an extoskeleton. You can find it at most garden centers- It's a finely ground powder of diatoms that breaks down the extoskelton of insects - kind of like walking through crushed glass for them. I have used it along kitchen baseboards, on puppies that were too young for flea insecticides, along the outside of my house to keep fleas from coming in. I know people who feed it as a preventative for internal parasites. The catch is you would have to re-apply it if it rains - but I don't think it is expensive, and a small amount around ant hills should be enough to kill them. The only precaution is that you don't want it to be inhaled -so actually putting it down the ant hill openings would be preferable to putting it right on the open ground where your dogs could sniff and inhale the powder. Laurie

I see this with a couple of my own Border Collies and lots of other BC's in our classes. Border Collies generally like the world to be "in order". They can be "control freaks" but most often just don't like other dogs being "out of control". They take special offense to unruly "rude" dogs (many time Labs, Goldens, Standard Poodles or Boxers) who do not read "Border Collie" signals to keep a distance or calm down; or dogs who insist on bounding forward or intruding with hard eye contact. Observe your dog, and you will see subtle signs that there is stress or uneasiness before it ever escalates into a defensive manuever. Ears flicking back; licking lips, yawning, dilating pupils; efforts to either stare or break eye contact; these subtle signs and others all signal uneasiness on your dog's part. Try to anticipate this; step up to the plate for your dog (block the other dog's access visually or physically) while diverting your dog's attention to you, and praising him for letting you be the one in charge of the perceived chaos. He needs to know that you are his protector, and he can count on you to be in charge of these situations. Dog parks (IMO) are the worst scenario for this happening - uneducated owners letting uneducated (rude) dogs run rampant. JMO. Laurie

Specific running orders are on Sheepdog-L. Spectators welcome! We will be running Novice/Novice, Pro/Novice and Ranch dogs pretty much from 8 AM til evening both Saturday and Sunday. Fun day, with lots of "non-intimidating" friendly people around to talk to. Directions are on www.keepstonefarm.com or mapquest 412 Russell Road, Berryville VA 22611 Laurie

If it's the same dog I'm thinking of - the guy trains with us in VA and he got her from a local rescue. I think he was told "she could be a McNab", so he immediately told everyone she WAS a McNab. I think he just calls her that to be "different ", and he also doesn't know enough about Border Collies to understand that they can come in "smooth". How many actual working McNabs end up in an East Coast Border Collie rescue? I've never met an actual McNab around here, but to me, she looks like a smooth BCx"stubby legged (beagle?) mix" of some sort - smart but not very athletic or driven; compliant to the owner, but very "snarky" attitude with other people and dogs. Laurie

I've had numerous intact Golden Retrievers and Border Collies since 1980. Never an unplanned pregnancy. Did have a few "near misses" where I did not notice a "full fledged" heat, but the bitch was enticing to males anyways. Personally, I don't think there's really any such thing as a "silent heat" just ultra-clean bitches with less-observant owners. My dogs normally all go out as a "co-ed" group. I just diligently manage them - the boys go out separately when a girl is in heat - or due to be in heat. My biggest problem has always been with neighboring dogs - My girls in "standing heat" never step outside unattended - even in my securely fenced yard. Otherwise- I probably would have had multiple litters of "Border-Jacks" thanks to my nextdoor neighbor's horny little JRT, or Border-Beagles, thanks to another neighbor's wandering beagle. Where I used to live- there was an aggressive male shepherd mix that ran loose and "knocked up" a few neighborhood bitches- those owned by "clueless" folks who left their bitches outside unattended. It was a bit scary to even try to take a bitch out to potty on leash, knowing that "he" could be lurking out there. But I accomplished it - through diligence and by calling the offending owner numerous times to remind him to tie up his dog if he ever wanted to see him again. I had no qualms about calling the shelter to pick up an aggressive "stray" harrassing my livestock and dogs. Unwanted breedings in dogs are actually fairly easy to prevent - although it does take awareness, knowledge, and diligence. If you're not up to the task, then I suggest spay/neuter as early as your vet thinks it is advisable. Laurie

Don't feel too bad. I took one pup in for the study - they had to put her on gas anesthesia to get the "Cornell View", and then they forgot a view. So I had to take her back a second time a couple weeks later. Talk about doing things in the name of science... Luckily, Nan seems none the worse for her double visit... Got another pup who just turned 6 months old - I will probably see about "donating" his body as well since I'm nearby. Laurie PS - Mark- if you're reading this, I'm assuming you still need more working pups for the study. Want to send me the paperwork for Tyko (or I can just make a copy of what you sent for Nan) ? I can call and set up the appoinment.

here's a link to the CERF - ACVO Vet list - not sure if the Dr. you are referring to is in Cedar Rapids, but there is one there... (otherwise, my geography isn't good enough to know exactly where "a days drive from E. Iowa" is...) http://www.vmdb.org/clinic.html good luck! Laurie

I did some tattooing for the Golden Rescue for a while - it's not a glamorous a job, believe me. The Mantlos should be featured on the "Dirty Jobs" show on Discovery channel. How many times can a person get pee and anal gland smut in their faces before they call it quits? Mantlos have been tattooing for over 25 years - they did a Golden for me back in about 1983, and were already well known in East Coast dog training circles as "the best". Laurie

Rebecca- if this goes over well, we may do another one up here in the Fall, depending on the Mantlo's schedule, among other things. (If Ted's not too old for the hip study by then - I can't remember when they were born - Keepstone is about 15 minutes from Hillside Vet Hospital). Laurie

Please see the listing in "Coffee Break" - for full description of activities - but here's a taste of what will be happening in the "health" category- no appointment necessary - 10 Am - 3 Pm - website has more information as well www.doggonehealthyonline.com -Pet Tattoos by Nancy and Tommy Mantlo ($15 per dog) -Canine Massage by Anne M Hennessey, Performance Animal Services (starting at $10 for a mini-massage) -Holistic Veterinary consults and 2 informative 1 hour seminars on Canine Nutrition and Fitness by Carol A Lundquist, DVM PC (personal consults start at $30) -Licensed Vet Tech for Optigen 20/20 discount clinic blood draw (all breed dna testing) $10 per dog for the blood draw – bring paperwork for test, which must be paid for in advance online – follow directions at www.optigen.com and use clinic code RCLRC071207 -Information about Raw Feeding from experienced Raw Feeders

Keepstone Farm Novice Trial July 28 and July 29 2007 Two trials each day Sanctioned by VBCA Entries open June 19 –all entries must be accompanied by check. Entries close July 9 or when trial is full. No refunds after this date. Campers welcome; no hook-ups. Make checks payable to: Susan Rhoades Send entries to : Laurie Anderson 573 Cider Drive Bunker Hill, WV 25413 $20.00 per dog per class Nov/Nov – Pro/Nov- and Ranch. More info www.keepstonefarm.com Owner/handler Dog Sat Trial 1/Sat Trial 2 Sun Trial 1/Sun Trial 2 ______________ ______ _________/_________ _________/__________ ______________ ______ _________/_________ _________/_________ I understand that I am responsible for any cost incurred as a result of damages caused by me or my family or any dogs to facilities, animals or persons and that in the event of personal injury, damages to my property or animals, I will not hold the keepstone farm, the owners, operators employees, workers responsible. Signature:___________________________________________Date______ Address_______________________________________________________ E-mail _______________________________________________________ Phone # ______________________________________________________

Hey Roseanne - If you're ready to "get your feet wet" you & Drifter should come down to VA on the weekend of July 28-29. We're doing 4 VBCA trials over 2 days (2 TRIALS EACH DAY) - all Nov/Nov through Ranch level and there are still openings at all levels. This will be a friendly trial. Sheep at Keepstone are appropriately Novice level (dog-broke), but can be challenging on Ranch and Open level courses. I'll post the premium in the Trial announcement section. Laurie

Don't feel bad. A friend of mine with a dog that looks, behaves and moves like an Aussie/Husky (or Aussie/Spitz) mix - straight dense medium coat, square head, 2 blue eyes, mostly white with a tan head and tan spots on body, and with a "northern breed" tail set came back as primarily "Poodle" on the DNA test. There is absolutely nothing "poodle like" about the dog at all. Laurie

Hmm- she was dull right after the lambing/uterine trauma and off feed, but was still eating hay - just not that interested in her corn. She's been back out on good grass for the past 3 weeks, and is eating lamb pellets and corn just as well as the others at this point (3 weeks or so). The slight stiffness started about 2 weeks ago, and has progressed to this crazy neurologic gait behind, but she is very alert and otherwise seems happy, although she has continued to lose weight gradually. I hope it's just a calcium problem, but would it be just as effective to do as Rebecca suggested and buy the over the counter stuff at Tractor Supply? The vets here are pretty expensive, even just to do a farm call. If I try the OTC oral calcium or cal/mag - what would the dosage be for a 100 lb (thin) ewe? (I wouldn't want to overdose her, either. ) If this IS the problem, how long after treatment should it before seeing results? And how long would you continue to supplement? Thanks everybody, for your input! I should have known that if there was a weird problem, it would crop up in one of MY animals. Par for the course... Laurie

Ok - I did read about that - but I guess was confusing it with wasting disease - I found a good article on it on the Md Sheep and Goat website - http://www.sheepandgoat.com/articles/deerworm.html - I hope that's not it! My sheep are generally not kept in a wet pasture situation- and I haven't noticed an abundance of snails or slugs, so hopefullly not! They were in a pasture that had a "water hole" over the winter, I wonder how long it takes for symptoms to show up. The article did not say. Keeping my fingers crossed that it's something else so the other sheep aren't also endangered. Laurie

Thanks Bill! We are overun with white tail deer in our area, but I think it would be SO coincidental that she would be the one affected. Also, from talking to the local hunters, I'm pretty sure that the wasting disease in deer is not prevelant in our area (WV/Northern VA). I'll see about getting some Banamine and try it. It seems strange to me that if she were going to have nerve damage, it would wait a month after the birthing trauma to manifest itself - that's why I was thinking recurring infection. Also, I've read about Scrapie, and her symptoms don't seem to fit; she came from a (local) healthy small flock, and there haven't been sheep on my property before I got these a year ago. Laurie

Wierd - long - question - but I'm trying to avoid a costly vet bill for a sheep that is already on "the cull list". I've been reading and asking around, but I don't think this ewe has one of the "regular" problems. This 16 month old Katahdin ewe - first time lamber in early May- has 2 very healthy lambs at her side - and is producing lots of milk. She's slated to be culled because after an uneventful 4 1/2 months of pregnancy she decided to partially prolapse her vagina. Fixed that with a baling twine "harness" and stall confinement, and after a couple weeks, she delivered two large, healthy lambs. Thought our problems were over, but 12 hours later, she prolapsed her uterus. With the help of a knowledgeable friend, we replaced it, reapplied the baling twine, and started her on a 10 day course of antibiotics. She bounced back from near death, everything seemed relatively normal - appetite, elimination, etc. After a week or so I gradually reintroduced her to outdoor living. So far so good, other than she looked a little less thrifty than the rest, but with milking heavily and what she'd already been through, that didn't surprise me. About 10 days ago, while preparing to go out of town, I noticed her take a few strange steps behind. Ok - so maybe she was a bit lame, but she was staying with the flock, eating drinking, making lots of milk. I left my daughter in charge of everybody, but asked her to keep an eye on this ewe, especially. About 5 days ago, she called to tell me the ewe was severely ataxic behind, but otherwise was still getting around happily, albeit strangely. Still eating, drinking, taking care of her lambs. She just keeps falling down, and/or leaning on the other sheep or a fence for stability. I'm home from vacation now, and gotta say that the ewe's attitude is great, but she is getting thinner, even though she runs(stumbling) to eat in the morning; and is grazing, drinking, and caring for her lambs just fine. She is like a wobbler horse- no pain, just doesn't know where her back end is. No noticeable discharge, or other reason to thing this is related to the prolapse, but is it possible that a uterine infection could go to the spinal cord or brain? What else could this be? (By the way - All my other sheep are fine - 3 ewes with 5 other lambs, and 2 wethers). Also, if she does die, what's the youngest these lambs could be without having to supply milk replacer for them? I can build a creep feeder if necessary - they are grazing and eating lamb pellets/corn already. Lambs are just over 5 weeks now. thanks for any thoughts, Laurie

Don't beat yourself up over this. I've been to Verna's plenty of times, great place to get your feet wet; and there is always a strong pull to the exhaust, and sometimes squirrelly sheep (especially if she's using her new lambs). Plenty of people (including myself) have lost the sheep there, and/or had things go way amuck! Just part of the game (as well as the learning curve). Nice thing about Verna's is that the judge doesn't usually just tell you to take a hike when things go badly. As long as the dog is not killing sheep, they usually let you try to salvage your run and learn something from it. If it was always easy, why would we want to play? Coming from a horse background too, I always said if I could just get on the sheep and ride them around the course, we'd do just fine. But I found out that reading a GROUP of sheep can be a lot more complex than reading/riding a horse - and it takes time to get a feel for them. On top of that, you have got to be able to to read'em, decide what to do, communicate that information to your dog, and then things change again - all within milliseconds. You'll do fine - just keep trying. Laurie

Just passing this along - A worthy cause for anyone looking for a tax deductible way to double the bang for your buck! Laurie RABIES CHALLENGE FUND $20,000 MATCHING PLEDGE Two anonymous donors have generously pledged to match all donations of $100 or more to The Rabies Challenge Fund up to $20,000 from May 1st through November 1st. The Fund is more than halfway towards reaching its immediate goal of $177,000 to cover the two concurrent challenge studies’ first year expenses so the research can begin. The donors state that, “We are unabashed dog lovers and will do anything in our power to promote their health, longevity and overall well-being. That is the reason we have established a $20,000 matching gift program for the Rabies Challenge Fund. If you believe, as we do and as W. Jean Dodds, DVM, has stated, that “Rabies is the vaccine most associated with adverse reactions because it’s so potent”, then please support this initiative, particularly now so that your $100.00 or more donation will be doubled.” The Rabies Challenge Fund Charitable Trust is a 501 © (3) tax-exemption organization founded by pet vaccine disclosure advocate Kris L. Christine of Maine in 2005 to finance 5 and 7 year long-term duration of immunity challenge studies on the canine rabies vaccine. Two world-renowned giants of veterinary vaccine research -- Dr. W. Jean Dodds of Hemopet and Co-Trustee of The Rabies Challenge Fund and Dr. Ronald Schultz of the University of Wisconsin School of Veterinary Medicine -- have volunteered their time to ensure this important research is conducted in the United States. The vaccine studies will be performed by Dr. Schultz at the University of Wisconsin according to USDA vaccine licensing requirements. “This matching pledge offers a marvelous opportunity to reach our goal soon and begin the study!” Dr. Dodds stated. The concurrent vaccine studies will determine the duration of immunity conveyed by the canine rabies vaccine, with the goal of extending the state-mandated interval for boosters to 5, and then to 7 years. Scientific data suggest that vaccinating dogs against rabies every three years, as most states require, is unnecessary. Studies have shown the duration of protective immunity as measured by serum antibody titers against rabies virus to persist up to seven years post-vaccination, and results of a 1992 French challenge study led by Michel Aubert demonstrated dogs were immune to rabies five years after vaccination. Researchers believe the rabies vaccine can cause adverse reactions in animals and concur that it should not be given more often than is necessary to maintain immunity. Adverse reactions to rabies vaccination can include autoimmune diseases affecting the thyroid, joints, blood, eyes, skin, kidney, liver, bowel and central nervous system; anaphylactic shock; aggression; seizures; epilepsy; and fibrosarcomas at injection sites. Fund founder and Co-Trustee, Kris Christine, noted that, "This generous $20,000 matching pledge presents pet owners with a wonderful opportunity to double their contributions of $100 or more to help get the studies underway as soon as possible. The USDA does not require manufacturers to conduct long-term duration of immunity studies on canine vaccines, so rabies immunization laws reflect the minimum, not the maximum time for which vaccination confers immunity. Vaccine manufacturers lack the financial incentives to conduct this research, thus it is up to concerned pet owners to fund these studies to determine whether state laws require their dogs to be overvaccinated against rabies as current scientific data indicates." More information on The Rabies Challenge Fund and the concurrent 5 and 7 year challenge studies it will finance can be found at the fund’s website designed by volunteer Andrea Brin at: www.RabiesChallengeFund.org. To hear Animal Talk Naturally’s April 25th 2007 interview with Dr. W. Jean Dodds and Kris L. Christine The Vaccine Challenge, click on http://www.animaltalknaturally.com:80/2007...llenge-show-91/ .