laurie etc

Location: between Martinsburg WV - Winchester VA area I-81 Corridor Distance willing to travel: up to 3 hours in any direction Type of vehicle: Van w/5 full-time crates Hold Overnight? Yes, if needed - but not preferable Extra crates: YES - and can loan out if needed Times available: currently - flexible daytime schedule with some notice (not available most Mon, Wed, Thursday evenings) Able to pull from shelter? As needed Random other info: Years of experience training; evaluating, fostering and placing rescue dogs [transferred to database]

Fiona - Good luck! Let us know how she does. Laurie

Thanks! That would be awesome - I appreciate the offer, and no hurry. I like knowing as much about the background of my dogs as I can - and it's harder if the relations are overseas. Both of my girls sired by Harriot Roy are little workaholics and are very sound mentally and physically. Although I make a living teaching agility, Pod and Cooper's natural ability on sheep, coupled with their drive and determination has gotten me hooked on this sheepdog stuff. I definitely see a resemblance to your Bliss. Laurie I added links to a couple pictures of Bliss' cousins Pod (merle) and Cooper (B&W). photo by Pup Art photo by Christine Henry photo by Victor Steel

Jody - I'm guessing you probably know the answer to that - and I'm not in the mood to stir that pot again. Laurie

What a small world - Your Bliss' sire Harriott Jaff is a full brother to the sire of my Pod (blue merle tri) and younger sister Cooper (black and white). Harriott Roy is a blue merle tri who was imported to the US. That would mean that Colin House's Jess (bred by JP Burke) is also merle, (I know Morris' #Mac is a black and white tri, from a picture someone sent me). With Colin's vision problems, it makes sense that he keep a "traditional " pup from that breeding, selling the merle pups. I'd love to know more about the Harriot Jaff pups - or their relatives that Colin has bred. Laurie

Here's a link to a Fox news piece about lead in pet toys from China. http://tinyurl.com/3ddpbk

Haven't had a Border Collie who did the obsessive pacing, but years ago my daughter had a sheltie who did. She could go for hours in the yard, running her "pattern", regardless of where the other dogs were or what they were doing. It seemed innocent enough at the time, but I can tell you that we ended up with permanent deep ruts in the yard; and although Poppy lived to the ripe old age of 17, she was a gnarled mass of arthritis from all the self-induced repetitive trauma she incurred. Poppy was a rescue from a MO puppy mill - an impulse pet shop purchase, and then dumped at a groomer's at 6 months old. She had other fear issues that precluded her from becoming much other than the most loyal little dog any kid could want. But my point is, she did not have any physical reason for deteriorating so badly, other than the years of pacing. We actually thought it was amusing, except on rainy days when she would come in the house covered in mud from head to toe. This was back before the days of veterinary behaviorists and prescribed medications for such issues. If I were to get another dog like this, I would definitely seek a veterinary behaviorist's counsel and see if the OCD behavior could be helped before it becomes a life-long problem. Oh, and your idea about obedience and agility training is awesome. The more structured exercise and "brainwork" you can do with her, the better. Laurie

Well, if that's true then I'd just keep them separated. It's amazing how much subtle communication can be going on between two seemingly motionless dogs- especially if you (the human) are distracted by other things. You could just be missing the signs. Also, it's not necessarily the one you perceive as the aggressor that is instigating it. When my ultra-bitches get into it everybody pays the price of my displeasure -no one is "innocent". It takes two to tango, as they say. Laurie

I have mostly bitches, but a couple I call "ultra-bitches". My bitches generally get along, and I can manage them by just being "in charge" and giving "time outs" for misbehaving. Any posturing, lip curling, hard staring earns temporary separation. The "ultra-bitch's" aggression toward each other is mostly resource guarding of ME - but I've come to the conclusion that they truly just do not like each other - in fact, I think they would do serious physical damage to each other if left alone. They even posture when they pass each others' kennels. At first, they were fine when I wasn't part of the picture, but they have gotten into trouble in the yard, when one just brushed against the other, or one wouldn't back away from the other's stare. Now, they are managed so that they are not permitted to get into it. They do not go outside together, they are not loose in the house together. One is always kenneled or outside when the other is inside. Watch for the subtle signs before they escalate - staring, lip curling, tenseness, tail position, ear position. Try to defuse it before it happens. When you can't be watching, separate them. Laurie

Totally anecdotal response...I have a healthy 7.5 year old working merle - and I happen to know a lot of people in the "agility world" with ABCA working line merles (as opposed to conformation lines). A much higher percentage of the agility population of working line Border Collies is merle than in the actual working population, due to a preference of some competitors and breeders for "pretty"; so there's an opportunity to see a concentrated population of "oddballs". I've been to agility trials where I'd swear the reds and merles outnumber the black and whites. Never the less, I don't see an over abundance of illness in merles- any more than in the black and whites. I do know a couple merles with epilepsy, and one with pancreatic insufficiency - but then, I know some traditional Border Collies with those problems, too. I wonder if what you are hearing is simply a reflection of the fact that a sick merle stands out in someone's mind more than a sick black and white border collie. Plenty of people have written to these boards about their dogs with immune problems, irritable bowel disease, pancreatic insufficiency, allergies, epilepsy, reproductive issues. I know dogs that have died early from liver disease, kidney failure, immune problems. I just don't recall any of them being merles, specifically. I know there have been studies done about internal problems in homozygous merles, but I haven't seen it in the heterozygous population that I'm familiar with. Laurie

In one level III large flock course I ran, as the sheep rounded their way through a gateway, one ewe twisted a hoof through some chicken wire that had come loose (it was there because they use that paddock for the "duck course"). I had to hold the ewe and settle her so she wouldn't injure the leg, while my dog kept the other 24 sheep from going too far away, without running us over. Talk about "practical test" - I was standing there "bonding" with this ewe and trying to unravel her rear foot, while 24 other sheep were seriously considering whether they should run back through the gateway they had just left and take me out in the process. Finally, the foot came free (with the help of the judge) and we proceeded on the course. If I remember correctly, I think we won the class, but I was most impressed by the way my dog read the situation and kept the flock at bay while we worked to free the trapped ewe. I would love to see some "catch and doctor a sheep" portion to the ranch course - and I like the way that AHBA incorporates Stockmanship into their program. Laurie

I like your ideas on the self-sustaining pens. We are always looking for new ideas to use in our ranch course. I'm wondering, what happened if the handler couldn't re-sort the sheep properly back to where they belonged? Did you have a pick-up person/dog set them straight before the next run, or just go with what the handler left you? Some of the obstacles we use in our ranch courses have been: a bridge between fields (too easy once the sheep all know about it); an open ended, narrow "chute" with hold and ribbon pull; a foot bath; a trailer (for level III); and we have moved the sheep in and out of paddocks with a "draw" of a gated run-in shed with sheep inside. When we do the large flock trials, we use just about every field on the farm, and move the flock from field to field, with different "challenges" in each area; like a gate sort, a mini "HTD course". Each run starts with sheep that have been turned out to graze in the first field, so they have to be picked up from wherever they happen to end up. Laurie

Just saw some results from the USDAA Nationals (happening in Arizona this weekend) - Rosanne and Drifter won the 22" Steeplechase! Way to go!!! Anybody wanting to see more results can go to the USDAA website at www.usdaa.com/news/cfm Laurie

OH NO- I hope little Lark is OK! At least you found her and got her to the vet to be checked out. What a way to start your morning! Laurie

Most of my dogs "crab" when trotting in straight line - almost all of them are "flexible" behind, and can to change directions effortlessly on the fly. Most often I notice they are also that are a bit higher in the rear, with longer legs. I think that function and form are definitely intertwined here. Dogs built this way can cover ground effortlessly at a gallop; make quick, agile turns; stop on a dime; crouch, etc... They are less built for "trotting" (especially around in a circle with their heads strung up! ). When breeders breed for pretty "trotting", the eventual outcome will be for longer backs/shorter legs so that there is no footfall interference, and also I think the backs on these dogs become more rigid, higher at the withers, with a shorter space between the last rib and the pelvis to "hold" the rear in a straight line. Just look at Field Goldens and Labs vs. Show Goldens and Labs! IMO, this is one of the reasons that serious agility people like working lines - the "conformation" lines have lost the flexibility and athleticism that the working lines retain. If you are planning to do agility with your pup, be happy that she has that flexible "working" body! Laurie

The HTD Course we do (in VA) is about a 75 - 150 yd outrun (depends on which pasture gets used) and at level III, after the outrun the dog does what would be equal to a VBCA "ranch" course - basically dog drives from the post through 2 sets of panels, and then to the pen. Then dog brings sheep out of the pen and does either a shed or a "hold" with a ribbon pulled off one sheep. At lower levels, the outrun is not require to be as far (sheep are set out the same place, but handler and or dog have the option to move forward from the post up to certain points); and at level I handler wears the whole course. At level II handler wears through the first panels, and drives the 2nd, then meeting dog/sheep at the pen (handler can move from 1st pane, but can't cross an imaginary line from the panel to the post. (kind of an assisted or parallel drive). Since this venue is open to all breeds, the outrun is never as longs as it would be in a Border Collie trial, but it is as long as some novice/pro-novice trials I've been to in the VA/MD area. Personally, I like the AHBA trials; The HTD and Ranch classes are fun. The new Ranch Large Flock class is really fun and practical; dog gathers 25 sheep dumped out on a pasture to graze, then taking the sheep down a road to a different pasture, penning, gate sorting, pushing through a foot bath, and sometimes loading on a trailer. After that the dog takes them back up the road to exhaust them. And like someone mentioned, AHBA plus emphasis on stockmanship, so handlers have to learn to read and handle sheep, too. The Arena Trial is probably the most stressful to my dogs, with the precision required and not a lot of space to accomplish it in. Laurie

Take her -to rule out a serious problem, but it could just be a "gut" reaction to having been on antibiotics. They make a product now called Forte Flora, to restore good bacteria in the gut that antibiotics sometimes mess with. You could also try adding some plain or vanilla yogurt to her meals and see if that accomplishes the same. Laurie

I agree. But "selection" begins in the whelping box. And if a "top contender" is selecting a pup, would he take a chance on an odd color- or stick with what he "likes". If tradition had anything to do with it, maybe some of the potentially great merles (and reds) never got a chance to prove it. By being "left over puppies" and sold to pet homes or "small farms" in the UK rather than being chosen by the "big hats" who would train and trial their dog up to its potential. Just something to think about... I have a variety of colors, and my merle is my "go to" dog in any tough situation. She may be a bit crude and I have to raise my voice to get her attention, but her guts and determination are worth their weight in gold. She may never be a top trial dog, but she's had to put up with, compensate for, and forgive a lot of mistakes on my part; and she still wants nothing more than to work for me. Laurie

Deb and Wendy have very good points - and I agree. I was in the UK (England) a few years back and had the opportunity to visit with Jim and Shirley Cropper. Jim took me out to his pastures on "the hill" (a mountain by East Coast standards) and I noticed how the tall unmown grass was the exact color of my red dog. It was tough to see Jim's black dogs, and would be virtually impossible to spot a red on those hills. I would venture that a farmer/shepherd's selection DOES have something to with serviceability that way, and not just that reds and merles are poor workers or "politically incorrect". In Britain, where so much in life and sport is done in concert with "tradition", I would think breeding the "traditional" colored dogs would be in favor. I also think that selection against merle was a "safety measure" since a farmer would not have to worry about an unplanned merle-merle breeding if he didn't own one. I noticed when in Ireland there were quite a few more merles and oddly marked/colored dogs working. The Irish have always been known for their "independent thinking". In that case maybe the dog's ability would outweigh the desire to have a "politically correct" dog. The ISDS magazine had a good article a while back about merle working Border Collies, and the bloodlines/shepherds they came from. I will try to dig it out. As I recall, a shepherd named JP Burke in Wales was well known for working his merle bitches at trials in the set out/exhaust; and bred them to some top trial dogs along the way. His puppies were in high demand from those who weren't offended by the color. By the way, Most of the sport-merles I see in American agility trace back to mid-Western/Western Sagebrush lines - going back to some of the founding ABCA members/breeders (Peg and Tracy Brown)- not specifically MAH, although that is where some of her "candy-color" came from as well. I'm not saying they are being bred responsibly as sheepdogs, but the few I have seen put to sheep still have remarkable innate ability. There are more and more coming from the "Astra" lines , an ISDS breeder in the UK, as well. Laurie

Since one of the sheep killed by coyotes was my new herd sire prospect, I am now looking again. (The coyote problem is being addressed, and the sheep are now in a safe environment.) Applicant should be anywhere from 7 months to 3 years old - must be foot rot free and healthy otherwise. Need not be registered, but preference would be for a pinto (any color but black), from a line that sheds out completely, and moderate to large size. I will be at Montpelier this weekend and can possibly arrange transport from there (either in a large varikennel or trailer). Would like to have him by November 1 at the latest. Thanks! Laurie

Thanks, everyone, for the responses. I will definitely see about ordering some electronet today for a night paddock. That sounds like my best option right now. If they get fed in it, I think even my neighbor will be able to bring them in without a dog if I can't be here for some reason. Laurie

Would love to, but I don't think my 3 acres and my neighbor's 3 acres is really enough to put LGD's on in a subdivision (we each have 5 acres lots - each partially fenced in pasture, and partially "yard/dog yard"). Last night the sheep seemed relieved to be "home" and they did sleep in their usual spot on a rocky knoll near the house. I also left my back spot lights on aimed at the pasture - will motion lights deter the coyotes? I have permission to put them in the neighbor's barn at night- but due to my work schedule, that would be at about 4:30 pm most days- or I'd have to try to find them in the dark at midnight when I get home from work. I do have hot wire around the dog yard (to keep my dogs from going over the fence to the sheep), so maybe the thing to do would be to run it around the outside of the sheep field as well (or make an electronet "paddock" that they can go in for the night but still have some forage)? Laurie

I lost 3 of my 18 sheep to coyotes last night- two recently weaned lambs, and a very large (250#?) working wether. None of the rest have a mark on them. One lamb and the wether were obviously attacked, (throat wounds and gutted). The 4 month old ram lamb was a new one, fairly small, and didn't have a mark on him - I think he was probably trampled. The sheep were on my neighbor's pasture - a 1/4 mile or so down the road from me - fairly isolated - with woods/pasture on 3 sides, and I-81 across the fence on the other side. When my homeowners assoc. decided to pressure me to get rid of the sheep, my neighbor (not part of the subdivision) offered me this 12 acre pasture. I didn't know (until today) that the guy nextdoor to him has had a number of his boer goats picked off by coyotes, and has seen them on his property by spotlight. He keeps a number of donkeys there, too, which apparently don't protect his goats. I thought about it all day, and decided to move the sheep back up the road to my own pasture this evening. I feel like they are "sitting ducks" where they were - now that the coyotes have discovered them. They have never been bothered at my house in well over a year- I also have a donkey and horse that seem to watch over them to a certain extent. I'm guessing that the fact that I have a number of dogs who go out in the yard at odd hours, (and so do a couple of the closest neighbors), may be keeping the coyotes at bay? Is there anything else I can do (short of putting the sheep in the barn every night or getting a LGD) to warn off the coyotes? Would putting human or canine scent around the perimeter help at all? Any suggestions welcome... Laurie

Even worse, there are plenty of sick people out there with chips on their shoulders who could now "target" the owners or the dogs - I'm thinking stalking, poisoning, etc. And if the dogs were actually a legitimate threat to society, why are they even still alive? Laurie

Congrats on taking in a tough case- If Hrr Grr has a stable (normal) temperament, I think you will be surprised by how fast he comes around. These dogs seem to blossom under the right circumstances. I've had a number of similar cases, and only one didn't end up acclimated to "the real world" eventually (he ended up a severe fear biter who showed his true colors months after his rescue from being locked up in a chicken coop for 10 months). In reading your posts, I have a few suggestions. 1) Don't baby him, and don't give him "too much" freedom at this point. Handle him in a "matter of fact" no nonsense way. Calmly, but (for instance) insist that when you need him to go outside, he goes outside. That doesn't mean that you can't recognize his fear, but don't let the fear rule the situation. Simply pick him up gently and take him if he won't go on his own. I'd have a collar and a 1 ft long "tab" attached to him at all times. 2) These dogs need firm constistent leadership, not the "ok do whatever you want" kind of management. I would restrict his living area, and not set him up for failure later by having "no rules" right now. Treat his situation like a little puppy that isn't housebroken. I think it's better that he not learn that relieving himself anywhere is OK, and that he has the freedom to roam around loose while you aren't there or you're asleep. As much as you would like to let him have "freedom", he hasn't earned it yet, just like a baby puppy. I'd set up a baby gate situation so that he can get out of his crate but not have total freedom in the house when you can't be watching him. 3) Don't spend too much individual "intense" time with him yet. He's not ready for it. Integrate him into the household, but keep him in the "lower echelon" of attention right now. He will be more comfortable feeling like he's at the "low end of the pack" than like a "special needs" boy. You will know when he's ready for more attention. He will tell you. I'd spend a lot of time sitting on the floor near him but not making eye contact or interacting (read a book, watch TV); tossing/dropping treats near him, cuddling your other dog near him. He needs to see that you are "trustworthy". Your other dog will be very helpful in conveying this message. That's all for now - good luck with him! Wish I was closer, I'd take one of his cute little sisters! Laurie