laurie etc

Hi -RELAX! In my expeience, it is a "stage", and you will come across many more as she grows. 1)Teething is a horrible time for dogs, all their teeth fall out and new ones come in between 4 and 6 months - imagine if that happened to you! 2)There is documented data about a learning "lag" - I believe around 6 weeks from when a dog first learns something, and then commits it to longterm memory there will be a lag in the behavior. "He forgot what sit means" is a common complaint in our beginner classes. Give it a few days and he's back to remembering... 3) Also, 4/12 months is still very much a "Baby". I would never give my dogs, even the most "brilliant", free run of the house at that age. Keep those baby gates up or crate Jazz until she's a bit older, and things will be easier in the long run. Would you let a 2 year old child have free run of your house? Hope these ideas help...

oops - forgot to add the reply... The vinegar/alcohol mix will cause a great deal of "sting" on his raw spots! OUCH! No wonder he doesn't like it. After having drop eared Goldens forever, I can attest to lots of ear infections and many tubes of Otamax. One thing I learned with my dogs - chronic yeast infections in the ears are caused by an allergy or intolerance - most likely to grain. My one Golden had such horrible and chronic yeast infections that she actually had seizures. The yeast infection was systemic in her -it's called Candida in people. I put her on a holistic yeast detox program, and took her off grain products (kibble). Grains turn to sugar in the body - and yeast feeds on sugar. Once she went through the detox period, she never had a seizure or ear infection again. She is now almost 11 and still healthy. I know there is a new kibble out there that contains no grains. SOmeone mentioned it on this list a while back. You might want to switch to it, and see if Boy's ears get better. Also, there are some natural ear cleansers and treatmetns out there too. The yeast detox formula is made by Azmira Holistic Animal Care, and the ear cleanser I have used is made by Halo Purely for Pets.

oh, and yes - all but 2 of my guys were somebody else's castaways at 7 months old or more... all abca registered BC's and as good or better in agility than any of the fancy "sport-bred" BC's out there. (my own opinion, but, hey, we're all entitled, right?)

hi mark- just got back online this morning -so sorry to hear that Mary is ill - any word today?

Robin - there's an agilitydogplacement list on Yahoo - I think you can advertise rescues as well as adult dogs for sale on it (all breeds and mixed). The dogs must show some sort of "aptitude" for agility in order to post on it.

I know some people who "fast" their dogs regularly - I don't on a regualr basis. But if they get a particularly large meal, or I see them having loose stools, I fast the next meal. Gives the gut a time to calm down and recover... My feeling is that working dogs do better with small amounts more frequently and regularly. In the wild, wolves could afford to gorge themselves, then lie around and digest for a day or so...It also didn't matter (to the wolves) if they had blow-out diahrrea from gorging, but that matters to me!

I feed raw,too... Thinking about what the Shepherd's dogs would have eaten...probably a lot of scraps and "waste-food" from the shepherd's family; whatever rabbits, mice, birds, other small prey they could catch themselves, along with carion from deceased sheep and other livestock... At any rate, almost all domestic dogs were "scavengers" until the dog food companies came along in the mid 1900's. I always joke that my dogs eat better than I do, and other than an occasional hamburger bun on the road, I'm sure they do.

Shockingly, I was talking to an aquaintance in the Barbie Collie Culture one day - he was lamenting about how he "loved" the working Border Collies (he started out with working Aussies)but felt he just had to breed away from that "hyper mentality" because show people wanted calm, pretty "pets", not athletes. The Barbie Collies need to be able to stand around and be pampered, not exercised and stimulated constantly. Very Sad!

kris k - ibuprofen can be toxic to dogs even in small doses - i would use childrens aspirin instead.

Bunny hopping gait behind is one of the hallmarks of hip dysplasia. An xray of the hips can be done without anesthesia on a fairly controllable, nonaggressive dog. If you want OFA quality positioning (perfectly straight with legs extended to the max) the dog will most likely need sedation. If you are just looking for specific and/or obvious problems - like moderate to bad dysplasia or an old fracture - it can probably be seen just fine and diagnosed without sedation. If cost is bothering you, bring her on down to West VA - my vet does great hip xrays for just $65 - with or without a reversible sedative!

WINDSCORPION SAID..."My opinion is BREED THE BEST TO THE BEST. (a carrier is not the best. Period.) You guys act like if one more genetic defect is found the whole beloved breed will go to pot. If you guys don't want to, so be it somebody else will set the bar and the standard. So what, who cares. Not me. I set my own standards and so does Samantha. If you don't do the best you can that is on you. " As someone who has been reading, and not replying til now - I think I can say that "setting the bar" seems to be where you disagree. To Windscorpion and/or Samantha the bar is set based on medical testing, and to most of the other respondents, it is set by working ability, combined with medical health, soundness and longevity. I don't think anyone on this board would purposely or knowingly breed a dog that would produce puppies who display any of the "laundry list" of problems. But they are most concerned with the original purpose and abilities of the BC being preserved, not lost to a "priority of tests and procedures" being held as more important. Coming from a background in Golden Retrievers (breeding, rescue and competition) and hunting American Foxhounds, (as well as a couple of decades working at a University Veterinary Hospital)I can assure you that even the most tested, most carefully planned out matings sometimes produce physical and medical wrecks; that moving from a "working" criteria to a "Standard of physical looks and type", and yes, emphasis on "clearances", can lead to ruin of the working ability of a breed. I am certainly not saying I would not test for hip, eye and hearing soundness (I do), and I would test for vWD if I suspected a problem. I also know BC's who have epilepsy, IBS, Pancreatic enzyme insufficiency, allergies, undescended testicles, high cancer incidences, thyroid problems, and a myriad of other problems. Personally, I would not want to breed (or get a puppy from) any of those dogs, trial winner or not. Chances are, if those dogs were trained and tested under true working conditions, over time they would not hold up to a standard of working excellence and be culled from the gene pool anyways. So "breeding the best to the best" is a relative term. "The Best" 2 year old Nursery Winner with all his clearances could be a sickly, crippled or dead 6 year old - is he still "the best" just because he passed all the tests? Years ago at an Ian Dunbar seminar, he suggested that he would never breed a bitch to any dog under the age of 8 or 9 that wasn't ?proven" in soundness, health and ability, and that the bitch, if not old enough to be proven thoroughly, would have to be from a family of proven, long-lived parents. He suggested a breeding program based on survival of the fittest in all breeds? that if you let nature "cull" your breeding prospects, rather than coddling them, we would naturally have a much healthier dog of any breed and curtail a number of genetic and potentially even congential problems. Just food for thought...

check with your local extension agent - I don't know about fencing/grazing in VA where you will be, but the farm in Leesburg I owned qualified for the Chesapeake Bay preservation grants - and we had a complete Spring fed watering system installed and only had to pay about 10% of the cost... from what I recall, though, you do have to apply for the grant around the first of the year, and then go through inspections and approval process. One the grant money is "claimed" for the year, you need to reapply for the next year and - I'm pretty sure their are other erosion preventative applications, so it's definitely worth cehcking into!

Rebecca mentioned... "But I've noticed that about breeders who focus on their dogs as potential breeding machines. Instead of discussion of their dogs' abilities and potential, and what they get out of their partnership with their canine other half, you hear a lot of talk about "beauty and brains" and "structural soundness". As if the shepherds whose bread and butter depended on the ability of this breed to run for miles every day, weren't interested in soundness - and these modern breeders just invented soundness. Let me ask you. Did you make sure the parents of your pup could work all day in all weather, on hills and on rough terrain and in woods where a well-coupled body and sharp hearing and split-second accurate eyesight are crucial? At night? Have you seen them work pens/chutes/trailers and take the beating that goes on in there? Did you make sure they have the temperament to adapt to different types of stock unfamiliar to them, or working stock in a totally environment?" I've been lurking along reading this thread - just had to throw in my 2 cents worth...maybe to put it in perspective... I was in England a cope years ago on a vacation, and through some friends here was put in contact with Jim and Shirley Cropper. (Jim has been a shepherd his whole life, and he and his wife Shirley also trial their dogs at the highest levels of competition.) Went to visit them on "the hill" - which was a mountain by my standards (I live in West Virginia)- and they graciously took me out to show me their dogs and how they use them. In gale force winds and freezing rain, his world trial level dog was sent out to gather a couple hundred ewes from a "hill" that looked something like maybe 300 acres straight up. The dog speedily took a wide cast "away to me" up the mountain along a fence line and disapeared from sight - we could not see him at all after a few minutes - but finally we COULD see the sheep slowly moving toward us from all over the pasture - beginning to our right and then moving down from the left - still no sight of the dog. After about 10 minutes, the dog appeared at the top of the "hill" a small black speck. Systematically, he balanced the 2 hundred or so sheep in perfect precision to Jim. He them sent the dog around with his whistle and he moved the entire flock around the field in a "trial type" pattern - just no panels to move them through. This dog, at 7 or eight years old, was 2nd in the world the previous year, and wasn't even winded when Jim gave him a that'll do and called him back to the truck. Afterwards Jim also brought out his 2 nursery dogs and worked them in brace, with 2 sets of whistle commands, at 18 months old, these "pups" were like rocket scientists compared to my dogs. A very humbling and enlightening experience - it became very clear to me what the shepherds "across the pond" have been breeding for all these centuries. It would be crime to let "a laundry list of medical tests" become more important that the essence of what a Border Collie is. The dogs worked by those Shepherds are tested in ways that no laboratory tests or xray could ever define.

If the last time you started a dog was when Koehler was in vogue, you have a lot of catching up to do! How about finding a local dog club that does obedience classes and checking out the current methods, or just googling for some of the other "positive approach" trainers. Pinch collars and harsh corrections are pretty archaeic, outdated methods. I find that the relationship you have with the dog will determine whether he chooses to follow your commands or blow you off - not brute force and physical punishment. Clicker training (which I do use for obedience purposes) is not the only current method of behavior training - as one of my favorite trainers says, "positive is not permissive!"

i think what Barb might be referring to is to train the pup to come in to either side of the handler, and using your hand as a "target" to get him there. That doesn't necessarily mean eye contact, in fact there's usually no time to make eye contact and run as fast as you need to in agility . A "here" command, the way I use it in agility, is to have the dog pull closer to me without crossing in front, facing the same way I am facing. This actually helps in herding when I say "here", my dogs are not thinking about my hands at all- but they know it means to come in closer to me. I'm a novice to herding, but it has helped me teach inside flanks to my guys.

thanks bumper - it looks like carol campion and bev lambert are within an hour from her. I sent her the contact info, along with the littlehats website.

I have a friend with an 8 month old BC - nice herding lines - that I have convinced to try on sheep. She is in the Hartford Ct area. This is her first BC, after 30 years with Jack Russell Terriers - so even though she's an experienced dog person, she is new to the BC idiosyncrosies (sp?). She also needs some help from an experienced BC person regarding her pup's heel nipping behavior, and a few other things. Without seeing what she's doing and her actual set-up, it's hard to give advise over the phone. Anyone up in her area to recommend? thanks!

Have you had her checked for parasites? Whips (or tapes) can cause a dog to lose weight, and can be hard to detect. I have had dogs (especialy old ones) get whipworm infestation even when on Interceptor - which is supposed to take care of that and other internal parasites as well as heartworm. My vet reported this to Novartis, and they reimbursed me for 6 months worth of the Interceptor. I used to foster a lot of rescue dogs, and once you have whipworms in your soil, they are there permanently. Since I recently moved to a place I can finally have all my dogs again - I got back my oldest girl (9 1/2) and she was thin - I was worried about a metabolic problem (or worse), although blood panels and thyroid tests came back fine on her earlier this year. She was positive for whips and tapes - she has been on interceptor and did not have fleas, but she was living on a farm with lots of other animals, and lots of dogs pass through there for training. That said, I have my dogs on Bravo, a complete raw food, that is really good for putting weight on. The lamb mix variety is higher fat than the chicken or beef, so my "hard keepers" get more of that than my easy keepers, and I also feed them more of the fatty chicken backs as well.

christine wrote...I have heard some people say that you should not let a dog sleep where you sleep because it portrays the message that they are your equal and you are not the dominant one. It could depend on the particular dog, but mostly I think it is a bunch of ka ka. i think it sends a "status" message to the other dogs in your household if one gets to sleep in the bed and the others don't. I don't think it's a problem for that particular dog as long as he is invited onto the bed and does not just "allow you to sleep with him there". None of mine are bed dogs at this point - everybody sleeps in crates. Main reason - I sleep/rest a lot better without having to make allowances for dogs in the bed. Also, a couple of them are too "active" at night to be trusted loose in the house.

I have had pretty good luck with split or burned pads using "New Skin" a liquid bandage that you can buy in any drugstore. Make sure you clean the wound out well first and let it dry completely before applying the New Skin, because the New Skin seals it shut, and forms a waterproof layer, so you don't want anything trapped underneath. It does sting when you apply it for a few seconds, so it may help to have someone restrain the dog while you apply it, especially on a rear paw. I've had dogs go from three-legged to sound in a matter of minutes with the stuff.

i agree - Lori, that's one the most amusing sheep-tales I've heard! It reminds me of some of the close encounters I'VE had with horses(and lived to tell about...) Why is there always someone inadvertantly watching when these "insane" moments happen? I think it's to keep us humble...

Hi Mark - well- speaking of cars, that's why I wasn't at the ABC Mag trial - what a bummer, I was really looking forward to it. The fuel pump went out on my van friday- had to have it towed in - the rental car was a brand new cloth seat Grand Prix - so I decided they probably wouldn't like me throwing 4 muddy BC's loose in the back seat. Some friends of mine got sued for $300 damages from a car rental in Texas after a sloppy agility trial week. The good news from the weekend is that I found a house to buy on 5 acres in Bunker Hill - so I'll finally be out of this townhouse and somewhere we can actually have a few sheep to practice with on a regular basis!

This is not specifically BC related, but I have a friend in Manhatten who needs a recommendation for a good vet for his 10 year old dog who is having some physical/neurologic/hind-end lameness problems. He recently moved to NYC from Chicago - so doesn't have a clue where to take the dog. Any suggestions? Thanks!!

Anybody know the running order for Sunday at the ABC Mag trial? I didn't see it on the Sheepdog-L . thanks, Laurie