Firm Fair Fun Consistent

working backwards in reply to the recent posts: Tuck's Buddy: Yup. I mentioned reading and gaining help from the pamphlet in my opening post. From that and a number of posts here it looks like I could handle a BC (in general aside from issues re this particular one). OTOH from other things I found--like on a British Columbia BC rescue website which suggests going to a sheepherding trial and if one can't give that kind of exercise and stimulation to a BC, then don't get one, it makes me think not. So, therein much unsureness. Clearly a BC is not an ordinary dog. I mean, heck, I heard the "news" report about the BC that knew the names of 200 different toys, and I started thinking, "ball, bone, frisbee, ..." I think I only got up to about 60 different likely dog toys that I knew names for. And I have a magna cum laude college degree too! Deanna in Oregon: Yes. Similar situation though I use separate outdoor kennels (a 10' x 10' and a 5' x 15') and dogs don't get free access in and out. Mostly my dogs have been with me wherever I am, in or out, though. And I have access to land that is fenced well enough to give offleash romping time daily --just not well enough to leave a group of unsupervised dogs alone in. That what you describe is enough for your dogs is another thing that makes it seem like this adoption might be possible. Also I was thrilled that you say the dogs can learn to "turn it off". Some of what I was reading made it seem like that would be totally impossible with this breed. I think I tried to PM you to ask if you knew of any sheepherding training places available in your (which is also my) area? If there was anything nearby and if I got the dog and it would make the difference between a happy adjusted dog and a nutsy one, I'd be willing to try it out and see if it's something I could get into. (Probably would turn out addictive.) AK Dog Doc: What you said makes sense in looking at dog and seeing what she is telling me about herself. I won't make a final decision on whether to adopt her or not unless she has spent time --at least a couple of days and preferably a week--actually with me. I read how you did it with Ali and that sounded like a good way. My sympathy on the death of your older dog, and my congratulations on the adoption of the new one. Ali is very cute. I like the short hair which would do great here where there are muddy creeks and burrs and not so much cold winters. Your description of Ali as a wallaby on uppers sounds like it also fits the dog I am now considering. I hope she is a dog that can learn to turn it off like Deanna in OR's dog.

Not a problem. and it would almost never be 5 hours all together anyway. Also it doesn't get either all that hot or cold where I am usually (Pacific Northwest) so outdoor kennel can be utilized if several hours without breaks is needed. The newest news is that the dog will be staying across the street from me for three days in about a week on a property still owned by the dog's owners but occupied by renters (who will dog-sit). Sounds like I'll be able to spend some more time meeting and evaluating the dog--without my own house subject to destruction for the moment. Any ideas on what to look for to try to determine whether the problem is likely a "fit" problem or not? I talked to someone who knows the family and sees more of them and the dog than I do who thinks part of problem may be that the household is very very active (5 kids and hub of an extended social network) leading to a high state of excitement and arousal in a dog who tends to be that way. Okay, wait for me! I'll get there eventually.

A bunch of good ideas, and pretty inspiring! Sounds like you have a great dog there! I will let you know what happens. Whatever happens with this particular dog, I have certainly developed an interest in this intriguing breed.

Thanks for the replies thus far. AK Dog Doc: I think the idea of trying the dog for a week or so if this gets serious would be a great idea for all concerned. Maybe I can "babysit" her if they go on a vacation this summer and get a better idea as a preliminary toe in the water. 3 BC dogs may not be as much experience as some have, but it is 3 more than I have. And so very helpful. I assume if you are a dog doc that you have to work too and so the dogs are not getting 100 percent of your attention all the time. (And maybe ther is some non BC personal life as well) What do you do with them when you are working, or are they all well enough behaved that free run of house or yard is not an issue? This dog IS an escape artist--hence why she would have to be kennelled if outside alone, and i also gather the dog cannot be trusted indoors unsupervised or will chew destructively etc. I think she would have to be crated or kennelled for about 5 hours per day to allow time for the work I have to do, showering etc. But she does seem smart, and my guess is I could get her into a mat stay for a lot of that time pretty quickly. And maybe with other outlets she will start to improve in the chewing area and be able to earn more freedom in house priviledges if I got her. I am concerned that the dog may not be showing her "true colors" around me , since in the three times I met her she seemed fine to me. While I know that the owners (whose last dog was an Australian shepherd, and not an especially easy dog) are having major trouble with her. I also know that they left the dog for a day with a professional trainer (who I go to too) to evaluate the dog and he thought the dog was fine. But the current owners seem to be being driven nuts. So what is really going on is a bit confusing to try to get a grasp of. Incidentally i've got 4 polydactyls-some 6 toed some 7! I keep wanting to visit Alaska and have never gotten there. And the more critters I get the harder it gets to leave. Sigh. Caelin Tess: I could live with what you describe of your Tess just fine. The never nap type is what worries me--and is that because the dog has not learned to relax and settle down, or because the dog honestly has that much energy that it cannot nap, I wonder. I like the idea of asking for a description of a typical day in the life of the dog and asking if the dog ever naps during the day. I realize now that you write that that except for the specifics like food bowl problem, I have just been hearing general sense of the dog being overwhelmingly active, but don't know for this particular family exactly what that means. i have myself seen the BC get tired playing with other dogs to the want to rest point...but also noted that she recovered and was ready to go again faster than the other dogs. Lunar: Rescues can be tough! My rottie boy was a tough rescue who was himself bouncing off the walls (quite literally) when I first got him. But I also knew that it was not particularly normal for his breed and that with training and guidance and appropriate outlets, he would learn to calm down a lot, which he did. He is still more active and with higher drive than the last rottie I had. So I think there is a combination of both the importance of assessing the individual dog, but also importance in understanding the breed. If I had thought that the behaviour I saw in my rottie when I first saw him was him permanently I would have concluded that it was an impossible situation. I don't know whether your GSD is worse, but if so you have one of the most difficult of dogs imaginable and my empathy to you. In any case it seems to me to be important to have some sense in ones mind of what is likely to be the result of the dog by hardwiring both individual and by breed and what is likely to be just from a lack of outlet for exercise, or a dog that is smart enough to wrap its owners around its little finger and get away with it. When I read things like "high energy" that does not tell me anywhere near as much as specifics like that a typical dog might need 2 hours per day of hard exercise/mental stimulation vs. 5 hours per day vs. all day non-stop. Or whatever. 2 hours I would consider easy. 5 hard. all day non-stop, impossible in my circumstances. Stacysbc: Okay. The comparison to terriers and boxers is also a helpful one that helps me to understand. Actually the current owners are trying to train the dog. She has been in training since puppy class and is now in beginner. They are having trouble with her though. She was a rebound puppy after the death of a previous dog--and unfortunately also came into their lives at the same time as they moved from rural situation to town (and from 5 acres to only a very small yard for off leash exercise)--which could be much of the problem at its root. Anyway, I am trying to make as sure as i can that I don't get her unless it has a very good chance of working with me. The question of ideas for evaluating a dog like spend a week with it if possible, get a description of a typical whole day etc. would have been wise for me to have asked, but thank you all for answering it even though I didn't ask it!

Hello, this is my first post. Friends of mine have an adolescent female border collie who may not work out for them. I am considering offering to take it as a rehome if necessary and am trying to do my homework to decide if this would be good idea. I have read a bunch on this website including the pamphlet link and other links. I found the information I read very helpful. Does anyone know of a place where I could find the sort of information on BC's it looks like is being gathered for the thesis survey in a thread currently up near the top? My main question that I am having trouble answering is: A book I had on dog breeds described the BC as (as best I recall--this may be a slight misquote) "a coiled spring of concentrated energy constantly in motion"--is that an exaggeration or is that true? Can border collies settle down and be calm or are they on the go all the time? I live in the country with room for dogs to run, but I work at home at a desk for quite a few hours a day. A dog would have to be able to be either on a downstay on a mat, in a crate, or in an outside kennel during this time (not bouncing off the walls) for this to work out. The dog cannot be given free run outside because she is already having escape artist and related problems in her present home. (Her other main "problem" seems simply to be that she is too much dog for her present family. Plus she is testing limits and getting growly around her food dish. Jumps up. And so forth. Most of this would probably not be as much a problem with me, since she seems to be smart enough to know what she can pull with whom. So aside from the energy level question, for me she would probably not be "too much dog".) Secondary question, I already know that I get along with the border collie in question and that she will be okay with other dogs in my life(rottweiler and German Shepherd). What would I be likely to face in regard to cats and chickens? (Neither the cats or chickens would really appreciate being herded, but might put up with mild herding if no teeth are used on them, and the chickens would appreciate having a dog to scare off rats and coons.) Our main dog activity is obedience, so she would have a good bit of mental stimulation if she were with me. Protection and agility are also available in my area. Rarely there is enough interest to get a tracking group together, but I do some tracking work just for fun here at home, and with teenage dogsof other breeds have found that it helps calm and tire them to do obedience and tracking practice as much or more than to go on a long run. I am concerned though that while a rottie and gsd have "real jobs" in my life as assistance dogs, and watchdogs, cart pullers, and general companions, that the BC might not have a real job, only made up ones to keep her busy. I believe that dogs are happiest with real jobs to do. If I take on the BC do I have to get a herd of sheep too (only slightly kidding)? Any thoughts, leads to more info, personal experience to share, would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.