jimahall

Could be mange (a small mite). Get a bottle of dip mix from your vet supply or feed store. Cost about $8-$10. Mix accorcing to directions with water and dip the dog in a tub of the mix. Discard the dip afterwards. I use this to control ticks and fles. Last about a month or so. We have not had mange but my neighbor did this summer. The dip solved the problem. Hope this helps.

I know this is an old thread, but discussion on a yahoo group brought up the question: Are beardies Border Collies? or a different breed altogether?

The discussion on non-breeding contacts and retricting contracts has started a new thread. the link is: Topic: why have breeding restrictions

With so many using computers today, why can?t we sale a pup on a spay/neuter contract with non-breeding agreement and register the dog in the name of the breeder. Then supply a ?pedigree? certificate to the ?pet? buyer that we make from our own computer. Would work if the registries had not ?educated? folks that registration was value. I still do not see how most can enforce a spay/neuter contract. Just like many restrict registering their ABCA pup in the other registry. But who actually has the money to sue the buyer if they violate the contract. I sold a pup for $500. Health guarantee included. Yet at age 2year 11 months it test CEA ?affected?. Will they spend $2500 in attorney retainer, $1000+ in travel expenses, then motel cost and more. As a breeder, can I afford to sue a buyer because they failed to spay/neuter? Will the court actually uphold the contract? I guess the question should be, has anyoner had to enforce, in court, one of these type of contracts?

CONTRACT FOR NON-BREEDING STATUS American Border Collie Association ABCA REGISTERED DOG I, __________, as breeder of a dog whelped on _______, 2005, out of the Sire _______ ABC# _______ and Dam _______ ABC# _________, request that a Non-Breeding status be placed on this dog, a (male/female) to be registered to John Doe, owner of record with the American Border Collie Association, Inc. This Non-Breeding status will not allow any offspring of the above mentioned dog to be registered (with any registry). It is understood that the breeder can remove the Non-Breeding status in the future, but that it requires the signature of the breeder and original owner of the above mentioned dog. Name of dog: ____________ ABCA No. Assigned: _______ Signed this ___________________ day of ______________, 20____. _________________________________ John Doe, Breeder I agree to the above mentioned breeding restrictions on the above referenced dog. _________________________________ Jane Doe, Original owner of dog.

You have both parties sign the non-breeding contract, then mail themw ith the litter registration. Place a notaion on the restricted pup. Perhasp in the name block. The idea was not mine but someone at the ABCA. We have wonderful folks at ABCA office.

I was "told" that this was available. so I emailed the ABCA and asked for a copy. Two days later it was in my inbox. I have placed a copy on my website and provide a copy with every sale. It is difficult to sell under this contract. So the advise I was given is to have two prices. I priced my current litter at $300 each, $200 with signed non-breeding contract. It worked well. each breeder must work out the details for themselves. But anyone can take what I posted and use it. Co-ownership is also something some use. Not sure i would want that. What if the dog bit someone due to poor handling. Both owner's of dog could be sued. I would rather restrict with the non-breeding contract than to co-own a dog.

The ABCA emailed this non-breeding contract to me, upon request. It is simple and easy to edit in "Word" and place names, numbers etc to the contract. The pups that I sold under this contract will never be permitted to have a litter registered, without my written consent. Sorry if it looked like I bailed out on this thread. Lots happening in my personal life. But I have logged on every few days and read the thread. As a teenager, I bred all sorts of animals. Mostly poultry, cattle and goats. But these were livestock. Dogs are a bit different. Until about 10 years ago we never bred Border Collies. We acquired ours from working homes and spayed/neutered them. Dad did raise some in the late 1960's. But Jill was from two imported Scottish parents and was an excellent worker. But after Jill died we did not raise any more litters. We replaced Jill with her granddaughter and had Priss spayed. I have raised two litters with Jess. But Jess is an excellent worker and a daughter of IMP Jim, "The Black Bomber". Due to a family issue I have sold Jess to a working farm in Louisiana. They are not at this time interested in breeding. Not sure if I will keep a pup from her or not. I have one male left and priced him not to sell ($700). Guess I really do want to keep him. I would have to greatly consider the thought before getting a breeding female again. There are so many great working dogs in Oklahoma. If I wanted/needed a BC from excellent working parents, I would only need to drive an hour in any direction and take my pick. You can learn all you need to know about "breeding" dogs from a book. It takes experience in the pasture with working BCs to learn the Border Collie. I am 41, have had BCs since 1965, but I am no expert. Would not claim to be. I can train a BC to do my work, but not a trial. Guess what I am trying to say is, perhaps teenagers should not be breeding BCs. It is not a project. A local rancher came to me for a pup because his dog died July 4. It was 15 years old. That is nearly the age of BrillantDawn. It is hard to believe that a teenager is mature enough to breed quality working Border Collies. I think that is the issue: should a teenager be breeding dogs? Katelynn obviously has some great mentors. Plus a zeal for the working abilities of the breed. You have to admire her for this. BrillantDawn is ?planning? on getting some sheep and start working her dogs. Big difference. I now have a Great Pyrenees intact female. She is AKC registered and out of working parents. After all health checks are done, I may breed her. But she has already started her guard work. She howls at the coyotes at night and parades around the pasture during the day. I shipped my other LGDs to a friend last week. Though Paprika is not mature, at age 7 months she is working. Still have a lot to go until I decide to breed or spay her. She should be near two years or two before I decide. Her breeder is mentoring me on LGDs. I also have several friends that are ?teaching? me. It takes years of experience to be a good breeder. A teenager just does not have that many years. Now if they started out in 4-H at 9 with working Border Collies, then perhaps they are. I have friend that is in his 20?s. He has bred working BCs since he was 14. But his grandfather died and left him with excellent dogs. He worked daily with his grandfather and the BCs. He will still raise a litter every few years. BrillantDawn just does not sound like she has the experience or maturity to be raising so many pups.

CONTRACT FOR NON-BREEDING STATUS American Border Collie Association ABCA REGISTERED DOG I, __________, as breeder of a dog whelped on _______, 2005, out of the Sire _______ ABC# _______ and Dam _______ ABC# _________, request that a Non-Breeding status be placed on this dog, a (male/female) to be registered to John Doe, owner of record with the American Border Collie Association, Inc. This Non-Breeding status will not allow any offspring of the above mentioned dog to be registered (with any registry). It is understood that the breeder can remove the Non-Breeding status in the future, but that it requires the signature of the breeder and original owner of the above mentioned dog. Name of dog: ____________ ABCA No. Assigned: _______ Signed this ___________________ day of ______________, 20____. _________________________________ John Doe, Breeder I agree to the above mentioned breeding restrictions on the above referenced dog. _________________________________ Jane Doe, Original owner of dog.

Thanks for the laugh Bill. I really needed it. A "vegetation management company". Really great. Will have to remember that.

We raise Icelandics. They are registered with the Canadian Livestock Registry Corporation. wea re requuired to place a tattoo in each ear. Animal # in one ear, flock # in the other. Then either the madatory scrapies or SFCP tag. Now a premise tag #. How are our small eared Icelandics goinbg to walk with all that in their ears? In Oklahoma you can register for the premise ID on line. It was easy and simple. Bill, have you located a place to sale your flock? Sad to see you having to liquidate so many. Wished I was closer. Would love to try some "modern" ewes with my new AI Icelandic ram. Should make excellent market lambs. Good luck on your sales.

With Icelandic sheep it is highly recommended to give BoSe (Vit E/selenium) shots at laest two weeks prior to lambing time. But it is not just prolapse. Lambs can be born with white muscle disease and more. If you are not sure about the selenium and other mineral content in your area go to the USGS link below. It list the lower 48 states county by county. I have the highest Se of my county. Not good but better than some. USGS County Mineral Map

Welcome back Eileen! It is interesting that when Maria deleted the other thread and started this one the conformation folks left. Many of them joined and posted only on that thread. But Maria took care of the problem by starting the discussion on this thread. Seems it was not important enough for them to stay around.

Yea, you are sort of preaching to the choir!

If you will start the personal attack of their "friend" I am sure they will all return. Most of them had just joined to support her anyway. (This is not intended as an attack). Anyway, at least this thread is interesting. Probably not resolve anything, but interesting.

Any responsible breeder will already be volunteering in rescue. I have a resuce page on my website. Not very many stockdogs needing rescue in my area, but the local rescue folks know to contact me if they find any. We have successfully placed several stockdog rescues this past year. One was within two hours of death in a kill shelter. He is now at a local farm being the best friend to a retired farmer. Will not work but was only needed to be a companion. We should all do our part to rescue stockdogs. But the first thing is to be a responsible breeder. If all we breed are working stockdogs there will be fewer dogs in rescues.

What does the Viszlas have to do with WORKING Border Collies? The best hunting dog we ever owned was a Border Collie. Grab a gun and head for the woods and she was ready to hunt. Squirrel, coon, rabbits or anything. They truly are the most intelligent breed. Yet, we never had any arguments out of our cattle. We did have a stray bull :mad: from across the river decide to disagree with Priss once. The discussion took about 2 seconds and the bull lost. What would we do if the working ability was bred out of the Border Collie? This was a 2000# polled hereford bull. Sure glad it was not a "barbie" :cool: border collie we had with us. Otherwise it would have been me having the "disagreement" :confused: with the bull. So lets keep the working insticts in the Border Collie. The only way to do this is to only breed from livestock working parents. If they don't work, spay/neture them and get them out of the gene pool.

What are sheepdogs? Here is a link to some history on this wonderful breed. This tells what a true Border Collie is. Any other is just not the same. Just like a sandwich is not a sandwich without Miracle Whip! History of the Border Collie (ISDS)

Actually I believe the name suggested would be Working Border Collies and Barbie Border Collies. But then a trademark battle may happen with barbie and Ken.

Why not just go with what the ISDS calls them: Sheepdogs. Nothing else, nothing more. Of corse then the cattle dog folks may get offended. I still like the idea of copyrighting "Border Collie". Or how about the phrase "Working Border Collie"?

What about "Border Shepherd" or "Border Sheepdog" or perhaps 'Scottish Collie".

So why doesn't the ABCA change the name of "our" Border Collie, copyright it and only those registered with the ABCA can be called by that name. Just a thought.

This thread can be interesting, IF, names are withheld from direct attack. I heard an interesting storyu once about a fisherman (Christian). Will not go into it here, but the moral was is a fisherman a fisherman if he does not fish. Is a Border Collie a Border Collie if it does not herd? Hall Farms has had Border Collies since 1965. We would have disposed of any dog that would not herd stock. Though we did not breed BCs until the 90's, we only acquired pups from working stock. I will never acquire a BC from anyone but working (herding) parents. Yes, not all will herd, but when we breed from non-herding dogs we start to lose what makes a Border Collie a Border Collie. Do you recall the last time a "Lassie" collie herded anything? Do we want the Border Collie to become the same? That is the question and the answer is NO! Is a Border Collie a Border Collie if it does not herd? Definitly NO!

That is the best idea I have heard. Sell her as "Non-breeding" to a BC person needing sheep to just herd. But, whatever you do, please tell the buyer that she prolapsed. That is only fair. Best of luck with your decision. Glad I do not have to make it. It is difficult whenever a "pet" must be sold.