Lana

Very much agree. Then they like to come on here and say they cant find anybody who will sell them a pup that has seen a large man in a snowsuit and been dumped in a kids pool full of plastic bottles...while having prick ears and a smooth coat. BUT they are going to breed some nice red pups and to hell with all of you!

I can not speak to the hubby not on board part. Before we got married i had three dogs. I also owned sheep and had just purchased my own farm with no fences or buildings, and was living there in a 19 foot travel trailer. When we first started to date i told Martin i had three dogs. Most men say 'THREE DOGS!!" Martin said "ohh really what kind?" ooo mommy i knew i had a possible future mate in that one and he builds a great fence and did not think it was nuts to be a single women and buy a farm with nothing on it, so yea i marrried him. I can speak to the having kids and keeping your dream alive. Our son was born 10 months after we got married. At 37 i had to get moving if i wanted two. I have a pic some where of me working dogs at 6 days post c-sect and James in a front pack on my chest. His first trial he was 1 month old. When he was 4 months old we drove across the country to the cattle finals. Women will fight to hold your baby at dog trials and they sleep so well in the truck with the diesel engine on. Our daughter was born 21 months later and things did get much tougher. I would bring trucks for the boy and pack my daughter with me in a pack. I joked that both my kids knew my whistles better than the dogs did. It was a struggle to run 2 dogs and 2 kids, and even more so when you add farm work. I never got that hour zen before a run that i had before and I was always so tired i slept in the truck with the kids at trials. You do not get the social beers with the group after the trial as bed time is 730 and you keep that no matter what. You dont sit and study dogs and BS much in the tent unless the kids are asleep, or the weather is nice and they are playing in the stock water tank. That stock water tank is a wonderful thing on hot day. You nurse, get snacks, chase kids and then somebody says " hey Rolwey you are up next!" You get to be a master at working training time and nap time around each other, and you find out who your friends are when you need somebody to keep an eye on the screaming 6 month old, while the toddler runs off to the sheep pen. Some of my best friends were made during this time and many dont have kids of their own. When Katy was 5 months old i flew alone with her and 2 dogs to Texas for the cattle finals. She was nursing and i was not going to miss a finals. It is amazing how helpful people are when you have a cute kid in a front pack and are struggling with 2 crates. At the trial, once again, the grandmas had a fight over who would watch the baby while i ran. When the kids were 4 and 2 we drove across country for the cattle finals in WY. The weather was very windy and we spent a lot of time in the trailer with the kids. It was a little hellish, but when i went out to run Kell in the finals my son ran up as i went to the field and gave me a good "wuck" kiss. That is a memory i cherish as much as the fact my family was all there the year that Kell won. Now our kids are almost 8 and 10 and we ranch full time. We have been here 6 years and it has been tough to trial as the ranch is so busy and the kids are now into every sport known to man as well as horses. I have trialed much less the past 6 years, but still make it to many. The kids have still gone with me to many trials and this last sheep finals the kids helped set up for a week and my daughter helped in the hospitality tent, while my son helped set sheep the whole trial. Most handlers know my kids and the kids some times sell food at trials as well as help set sheep. The kids just think it is normal to hang out at sheep trials and i am proud of the fact they are willing and able to help. I still struggle with juggling it all and feel guilty if think the dogs are getting too much of my time. I hate to miss any game my kids are in and for the most part i dont. It is a ton of work i wont lie. Packing kids all over IMHO can be very good for the kids. It is very distracting and takes more work, but if you love it you can do it. We are lucky we live in a rural area and when you say the kids are being taken out of school for a trip with mom to a sheep trial the principal says " ohh what a great adventure have fun!" I know some schools try and guilt trip parents, but for us real life is a better teacher some days than school is. I agree a lot of women give up their passion when they have kids, and we are all not in the same place as to money,work and supportive husbands. I try not to judge. Surrond yourself with positive people who will cheer for you, be they dog friends, or not. Dont feel like you have to explain yourself to family and friends who think you are nuts. This is your life not theirs. Smile sweetly and nod your head when they give advice, then go train dogs.

My then 5 year old daughter was in the truck with the very pricked eared dog in my avatar pic shown here . She said " mommy i like Mints spiky ears" I said " they are called prick ears babe" she did a double take and said " but mommy I heard you call somebody a prick on the phone was that about their ears ?"

How do they mark sheep to know whom they belong to? In the US on the range land it is not un common for cattle or sheep to mix a little bit. Great care is taken to ID sheep and cattle for the reason of theft as well. Cattle are branded and ear tagged and many have ear notch markings that have been passed down on ranches like brands are. Sheep have ear tags and paint brands.

Thanks i am curious to know. I read that the country is roughly the size of the state of Kentucky.

All of Iceland

How many sheep are released on average year ?

The first time i flew adult dogs( 2 of them) was to Texas for a cow finals. I also flew with my then 5 month old as she was nursing and i did not want to miss a finals. I was more nuts then. Neither dog is sound sensitive but when i picked them up Kell was sound asleep on his back and Blue was panting, eyes rolled back and very stressed. As soon as i let the dogs out of the crate Blue was fine, and fine for the rest of the trip. I flew Blue again to a sheep finals and he was again very stressed when we got there, and then fine as soon as i let him out of the crate. I would not fly a nervous/sensitive dog but other wise not that big of a deal. I would add there is always a risk when you fly( or drive of course) any animal. There are horror stories out there.

I have found it easy to sell a good started dog, and the other people i know and respect seem to have the same expercience. There are always many people who want one and you can pick the right fit for dog and person. The auctions around here often have alcohol which makes prices go higher. There is also a fair bit of ego involved in saying you sold a dog for x or bought a dog for x. It is often a big social event in the west and is in conjunction with the sale of livestock. Just not my cup of tea, but again i am fine with others who sell dogs that way.

I would not sell a dog at an auction, but i do not judge those who do. In the west it is a good way for working dogs to get into the hands of the people who need them. That is important to me, i am just to soft hearted to sell a dog to somebody i do not have any info on. No hats at our place but Blue wore a Barbie once.......................................................................................................

My Blue dog was x rayed at 3 and we were told he had the "worst hips" the vet had ever seen. I took their advice and kept him fit and lean and used metacam for pain. He went on to be a grand ranch dog able to work pairs on the range until 8-9 and trial to 11. You can no messure the heart of a working dog. It can not be seen or predicted. Blue just wanted to keep working and so he did. He is 13 and thou stiff he is happy and active. A HD rx is heartbreaking but all dogs are so different that it does not have to be the end.

I agree there Julie and there is a divide. I also take with a grain of salt when people who have never trialed, or not trialed at a high level, start to talk about what trial dogs are and are not. Especially when it is mostly about what weak, mechanical bastards they are. I am not speaking to anybody's post in this thread, this topic has been beat like a dead horse on many a forum. Same for people who have not raised commercial livestock who talk about how any old dog can do "ranch work." Any old dog can move stock that wants to go. When you are talking large numbers of relatively undogged stock, hours of work( esp with young at their side) and taking them to places they do no wish to go...that is a different story. Best to just judge the individual dog and deal with people you trust, who also have the same goals that you do as to what they wish to do with the pups.

I guess i don't think there is a " prejudice against purchasing dogs from 'farm' lines' or breeding to/from such dogs because of difficulties of selling pups." Unless you are producing too many puppies, or one of the parents is purported to be proven but the other is clearly not. If somebody has trouble selling the pups they should not have breed the dogs, or better yet would have known the wanting of a pup from such a breeding prior to making the breeding. I look around the net a fair amount and of course know a fair number of ranch and trial people. I think there is a high demand as to pups from a true well breed ranch dog/bitch. If you add dogs in that dog/bitch line that also trial( at a high level) then you can sell those pups any day. Of course most those folks dont mass produce.

I agree with Mark i hear farm/ranch dog I never know if that means a few chores on broke livestock or real work on large numbers of un dogged stock. Sorry to be cynical but you look around the net and there are so many breeders claiming ranch dogs and then showing video of dogs working what are obviously not commercial level livestock. Even worse they are usually harassing stock...ie letting puppes maul young lambs allegedly to show they will grow up and be working dogs or moving dead broke stock around a small pen. Many dog handlers are interested in ranch dogs if the work is there and the pedigree is solid, as in filled with well respected trial and ranch dogs. Just like in most cases saying a dog won such and such a trial often means nothing, so does adding the tag "ranch dog" to a dog. Sadly both are often gimmicks of self promotion and used to sell puppies, especially in the age of the computer.

It might be like people and depend on the female. I know women who ran 10 miles up the last month of pregnancy....ooooooooooo not for me I would say know the bitch and if she is showing discomfort then stop. I worked Mint up to a few weeks before she whelped. I was loading a trailer and she got trampled so that made me re think using her the last few weeks. I took her for some basic chores but no real work the last 2 weeks.

Just the ones i don't want run over and killed.

Yes the "shelter is full" of "big hats" etc etc card..it must be played i guess. Thou i thought it obvious i was not speaking of those people. Who sadly do exisist. I should have said good breeders, but i thought that was evident from my post. The world is full of back yard breeders claiming to breed "working dogs." A handful of dog broke cows/sheep and a dog with some "working lines" in the pedigree, is all it takes to sell dogs on the internet. Trial dogs have their issues, rancher dogs have their issues. No "group" is immune to that and to claim other wise is disengenous and not good for the dogs. Some people breed too many dogs, for many bad reasons. Some claim to be working breeders, i submit they are ALL not GOOD breeders.Period. I don't justify bad breeding because working dogs/lines or big hats are invoved. I love, respect and need the working Border Collie. They are my passion and are second only to our children and our ranch. I admire and respect people who rescue dogs. I know many and consider them angels. I am out of this topic, militant rescue folks...pass I do hope the og poster finds a nice dog. I am always happy to have a pm to steer people to a good dog if i can.

While i agree with most of your post, and some very good points too, i do not know many of these people of which you speak. All i really know are working breeders, and most all do not fit the "isolated working dog." I think it is an urban myth from those that breed for other reasons than to work livestock.

Thank you Alchemist for the kind words. We breed our first litter 2.5 years ago, and Mint is breed now with the second litter. I feel i should say we have no pups for sale, least people think i am looking for buyers. Tacky. We only breed when we want a pup( we will keep at least 2) and we are breeding dogs that we hope will suit our needs on the ranch. I love to trial and of course I want dogs suited for that as well. As a mediocre handler i think i will have to settle for dogs that do well on very tough sheep, where the dog has to handle most of the job, and maybe no so well on other sheep. This being our second litter i know we have a lot to learn. I am always on the look out for old time doggers to hash with about dogs and sheep. Nothing better. I admit i would not sell to a sport/pet only home, but my friends do and i am fine with that. I do not agree with breeding for anything but working ability. I am not interested in breeding dogs for the masses. I wont ever breed enough dogs to make a big difference in the breed. I am just to soft on where my pups go to produce very many of them, and i suspect my pups wont appeal to the the majority anyway. I do want them tested in ranch and trial homes so i can gauge what i am breeding, and that is also my reason for keeping at least 2. As to selling to a beginer, i am not against that( we all started there for God sake) if they are already working with a good trainer and have paid some dues on the way to handling a dog. Motivated and passionate beginers( ranch and trial) are wonderful and necessary to the breed. How cool it must be to breed a dog that a beginer takes and does well with. Very satisfying i bet. I also steer these people to dog lines i know are easy to start and easy to handle. Most people want that. I usually know of a good litter i can tell people about when i get a call/email. I would much rather sell started dogs than pups to ranchers or trialers. I know what the dog is and feel i can find the best fit for dog and person that way. I also talk up rescue whenever i can,so many nice dogs need a home. I do know that most people i know are VERY happy that our pups are inside and handled by children. I get that and find it resonable. I am really not up on the all the "needs of puppy buyers" it seems to have worked ok with the first litter to just have the kids love on them.....a lot.

Most excellent quote, thank you Eileen.

wow. Here i am just hoping this up coming litter is full of good, useful stockdogs. Next time i hear that working breeders wont sell to new people etc, i shall refer them here.

Yes she is

That little cowgirl from Oregon was amazing..... Thanks Diane for all the work you were tireless and thou I had no part in the web cast I respect all that went into it. Feedback is good we need that, it just needs to be constructive or people tune it out.

When my kids were little, and had toys on the ground, dogs would come into my camp to pee on their toys I can see toys left out, but dogs in others camp is the worst kind of rude. I ended up leaving my Kell dog out when we were around the trailer. No dog enters when Kell is on on duty. I still have a vivid memory of a young intact male that i watched walking into all camp sites to pee on chairs and such. He bee bopped into our camp only to have Kell meet him. The dog never missed a step as he said" ohh excuse me sir" did a 180...and got the hell outa dodge.

Kell and i are very honored to be sponsored. Thanks you so much....Ruth, Gloria, Nancy, Marla and Cindy.