virg

Melanie......... i'm only agreeing with what "you" said in you post 12/23/03 @1:11PM. the las paragraph...virg Denice... i don't have any facts on that statement about more sport people vs. herding...it's just that everywhere you go you see people doing flyball and other sports with thier bc. seems like every weekend there is a sporting event going on for border collies, and for me to go to a herding trial, i have to drive 6 to 8 hours. virg

Melanie... you are correct, people do react very quickly about things that they are passionate about as i have seen it both ways here. your last post was perfectly clear to me, i don't know if it was what you said more than the way that you sait it, but it does make sence. there are alot more people doing doggie sports than herding with border collies, so having a seperate breed seems to be the best way to handle it. Merry Christmas. virg

MARIA........... very well said... exactly my thoughts on this subject.. nice website also..virg

eileen..... you should go back and read melanie's post on 12/20/03@9:59pm.. she states that "show dogs and sport dogs are not borders".. and yes, she says that she doesn't disapprove of dogs doing these things, but you should not call them border collies.. if you go back and re-read her post, it just mite be helpfull to you also. virg

eileen........... i have read these post over and over.. and every time i read them melanie says the same thing: unless your bc herds, it is not a border collie.. that just simply makes no sence.. if the parents herd and the puppies don't, then they are still border collies and it makes no difference if you approve or not, you can't change the fact.. i raised beagles for many years and just because one would not hunt, it was still a beagle.. i would not ever breed that dog but it was a beagle even if i didn't like it.. i would spay the dog and sell it as a pet.. i do understand you wanting to preserve the natural instinct of the bc, but you can't change the facts.. virg

melanie....... i agree with some of the things that you stated, such as border collies should be bred to herd, but, to say **showdogs and sport dogs are not border collies** just blows my mind. no matter how much you disapprove of border collies being used for things other than herding, they ARE still border collies.. every bc can't herd but that should not be a reason to put people down for using them to do sports or anything else that benefits the dog. i would think that you would be pleased with people for giving non herding border collies a chance to live a great alternative lifestyle. after all, it sure beats shooting them just because they don't have what it takes to work stock..but i do agree with you on the part about not breeding them.

thanks kevin, this is the type of comparison that i'm looking for. how bout their personalities? my acd is like velcro,always beside me both in the pasture and in the house.

i have a small farm (25acres). i only have cattle at this time. i will be getting sheep when i redo my fence. i have 10- 2 yr.old heifers, 1 very nasty young bull,and one 5 yr.old cow with 4 mo. calf. they are all charlios. i don't "need" another dog to help me with the cattle, but i love watching them work. i have a little red female a.c.d. (8yr.old & 29lb) that is doing great. i got her from a shelter in naples, fl. about a year ago. it was to be her last day before they put her down. i saw her and just could not leave there without taking her with me. she is very prey driven and will go head to head with my bull. she is pure acd, just alittle small for the breed. very hard headed. she will not stop until the cattle are where "she" thinks they should be. i would like to have a bc, everybody says that they are so much more trainable. will a border collie get face to face with cattle or are they more into staying back and hope'n that the cows will move? will a bc want to be at my side all the time that he is not working or do they go lie under a tree. i don't know much about their personality. thanks for any info that you can give me... virg

hey guys, i didn't intend to start a war. i did not take kim's reply to be negative toward the group. i think she was only trying to be helpful by refering me to a group that might talk "herding" in more depth. please don't be so hard on other people. i just removed myself from a cattle dog group that always wanted to interpet other peoples' post their own way. this always leads to fussing and fighting instead of helping people with their dog problems and concerns. i'm looking foward to learning alot about the b.c. from this group, so lets all be positive..virgil

i'm a new member and just want to say hello to everyone. i'm a die-hard australian cattle dog person searching for another breed to work cattle on my farm in n.alabama. i'm very happy with my 2 acds but they are very hard headed at times, so just maybe yall can convert me to border collies. i'm still in the research stage so any advice you can give me as to how the b.c. does with big stubborn cattle will help. thanks, virgil