JenS

There are a whole lot of dogs being represented as McNabs which really are not. The McNab label has a bit of mystic about it but can be very shady. I live just south of McNab country ( McNab country is Mendicino County in California) The dogs called Mc Nab are incredibly variable. Not so much a breed as wishful thinking. The cattle ranchers near me have given up on them. Too many folks using the name, but no proof of a good working dog. Shows how the old notion of a "papered" dog got the reputation it did. I would be very suspicious of anyone selling McNab dogs. Show me the work.

So many variables here. Feed before slaughter, stress levels before slaughter, time meat aged, the exact cuts etc. I had one processor cut up a hot carcass for a customer of mine. Needless to say, lost that customer. I raise Katahdins. The word is they taste better because they are a hair sheep. I don't know if that is true, or if it because of other factors like feed and stress. I do have very happy lamb customers. I have several stories of folks who "don't like lamb" who loved my lamb. Raved about it, even. I have butchered a 2.5 year old breeding ram. Gave some meat to a chef friend of mine. His critique when asked was that visually, the raw meat was darker, and the cuts were much larger, but other than that, tasted the same as lamb. I butchered and ground a seven year old ewe. Delicious! I had many folks wanting to buy some, but since it was not USDA slaughter, they couldn't. Some of these folks "don't like lamb" I tell that is ok, this is mutton! They are very surprised. Mutton has such a bad name but it really can be good. Again, what it was fed, how the meat was handled is very important. Also, much of the flavor ( good or bad) comes from the fat. An older, fat sheep is likely where the reputation of nasty mutton comes from. How the breed carries fat is, I think, important when dealing with older sheep. I think this is where the good reputation of hair sheep comes in. Well, at least Katahdins, St Croix and barbs. Dropper maybe not so much. ( as mutton)

This it what I lost my first dog too. He was older, almost 14. In the morning he was fine, then had a short bout of a very strange obsessive eating, picking at grass and leave and whatever was on the ground, like he couldn't control himself. I managed to distract him enough that he got over it. It only lasted a few minutes and I was present the whole time. Rest of the day he was fine, even helping to persuade some sheep to move into the right field. That night as we were watching TV, he started acting odd. I'll omit details but he went from " is the dog acting weird?" To unconscience and seizures in less than an hour ( emergency clinic is an hour away) by the time we got him in it was obvious he was unlikely to wake up or if he did, there wouldn't be much left. He was euthanized, but his brain was already gone. Oddly, his littermate brother had died the previous year under similar circumstance. He was out working ( lightly, was was older) loaded in the truck for the short ride home and when his owner went to unload him he was dead. Just like that. Losing so suddenly is always such a shock.

You might also consider saving yourself so expense and labor and using electronet for fencing. For only three acres, it might not be worth putting in permanent fence. Also consider you will be doing them a favor by cleaning up and monitoring their unused land. Many folks would pay to have someone clean up their land, you are offering it for free! As mentioned above, you will likely be improving it as well. Their win. My neighbors BEG me to move sheep in for free clean up. Often the forage is past it's prime, so I'm really doing them a favor, not the other way around. Don't underestimate the value of a well tended pasture. You could well be increasing their property value, reducing fire danger, offering care taking ( neighborhood watch) and improving aesthetics on your dime and time.

I'm in California, and it is pretty common for folks to think my smooth dogs are McNabs. I also have a smooth white factor dog with prick ears who has on occasion been mistaken for a Caanan Dog. Rough coated dogs, as much as I like them, are simply not an option out here in the land of foxtails, awns and burrs. Even the LGDs need to be smooth. All the stockdogs on the ranches around here are smooth, though many of those dogs are crossbred. Crossing in Kelpie is pretty common. I get as many folk question the breed due to being tricolor as I do due to being smooth. Quick answer is "Border Collies are not ( or should not ) bred to look any certain way. They are bred as stock dogs" if folks care to chat more about that, it is a good starting point. If folks don't care to chat, well I've quickly summed things up and we go on our way.

It has been ten years now since I was a vet tech, and the clinic I worked for did not stock this "vaccine" ( urban area) so what I recall may no longer be accurate. I cannot give any references as I'm working on memory here, but this is what I recall. The vaccine was developed at UC Davis utilizing Pacific Diamondback Rattlesnake venom. It's effectiveness on other species of rattlesnake may be questionable. It is not effective on other venomous species snake bites. It effectiveness on Pacific Diamondbacks is not proven. By this, I mean the testing done was not conclusive that is actually helped, but the testing was sufficient to prove it did no harm. I would guess the possibility of injection site reactions deemed within normal limits. If a person has a dog get bitten, and that dog recovers, they praise the vaccine ( if given) for that. Most folks don't realize that not all rattlesnake bites are the same and many times snake will bite with little venom, causing far less damage. Or the bite doesn't quite hit its target, or many other possibilities. Also, not all dogs are the same and some will be less affected by bites. The vaccine was placed in the category of "won't hurt, might help". I will not speculate on why any individual veterinarian may or may not recommend the vaccine, but the actual proof that the vaccine is helping is lacking. Rather, it was years ago when I last looked. Perhaps that has changed since then. It would be great if someone had more up to date information, or better proof of its effectiveness. Perhaps someone has. I haven't looked it up in a while. What I have seen did not impress me. I live in a area with a very high snake population. I do not give my dogs this vaccine.

Ooky, If your company is looking for dogs, I might have one that would work. He is three years old, neutered, mostly Border Collie ( with some Kelpie, possibly a bit of Heeler) I'm in Napa County and would bring him in for evaluation if there is interest. PM or email if there is interest. Email ( take out spaces) neff @ dzm . com

I have Indian Runners and have worked my dogs on them. I agree with all comments above. I would never put a pup on ducks. Ducks can be a messy pain to keep. Ducks also tend to try to hide when worked in an area that allows them to do so. They will take cover in bushes, crawl under decks, or smash themselves into corners. They require the dog to work in very close, which, depending on the dog, might not be a good thing. Sometimes they will decide to not move for the dog. This puts the dog in the position of either "losing" to the ducks, or getting more assertive ( which means biting) Dog bites to ducks may render the duck " single use". On the other hand. When I had to travel to work sheep, I found having ducks to work at home invaluable. Now the dog was more than started when I purchased the ducks, and the dog was a damn good dog so that helped . When I lost my small duck flock unexpectedly I initially thought it was for the best. I then went to a trial and realized duck work not only helped my dog, but it helped me keep well practiced in handling. (I was still working sheep at least weekly) Now I still have duck even though I have sheep. A great training aid is to pen ducks in a vari kennel. Quite an exercise. Ducks don't get dog broke. Female Indian runners can fly when stressed. I have had them reach altitudes of about 30 feet with a distance of about 100 yards. As mentioned the balance point on ducks is very small and rapidly changes. This can be good if your dog needs this kind of work. I had a young dog, just starting, who would get crazy when with the sheep. Crazy dog makes crazy sheep so dog can't settle down. Unintended circumstance put the crazy young dog in with the ducks. Since the ducks ( runners) can't move very fast ( compared to panicked sheep) the young dog slowed down and got its' brain together. After a couple of duck sessions, we were ready to begin real training on sheep. I wouldn't have thought of that, but it worked. So my take is don't get ducks for a young dog, until you have a pretty good handle on it. Depending on the dog, if you don't have sheep at home, ducks can help fill in the gaps. Ducks are never a subsitute for sheep ( or goat or cattle) work. Think of them as more as a supplement. You should like keeping ducks if you are going to have them. In other words, get ducks for YOU, and the dog, not the other way around.

While that is disappointing, Heather, I can't object because Hypnotoad will not allow it. Sigh. I love Hypnotoad. Best. Avatar. Ever.

I'm so bad at getting my entries in in time, but I have missed this trial too many times to leave it off this time. By golly, I will be there this year! See you there!

I too, have an Arnold. Love it. Thought I lost it once and was in a panic! Luckily, it was only misplaced. It is stainless steel. I can't use the plastic ones. I have a Montana light, but don't really like it much. I prefer a whistle with some substance, but no flavor. I like stainless because of feel, sturdiness, and I know I can clean it well. I heard somewhere that one shouldn't put brass into your mouth, as there is concern for some bad chemical mojo. Don't recall exactly what the caution was, though. Not sure of the source for that information, either. One of these days I will buy a new whistle, but I will probably always favor my Arnold!

The N. Cal litter on the OSDS website is all sold now. Lucky me, I got one!

Here is a twenty minute radio interview that captures many points in this thread, including the source of many pit bull statistics. http://www.radio.pblnn.com/shows/interviews/320-paul-tullis-time-magazine-s-softer-side-of-pit-bulls

Here is an article showing that many, many, folks WANT to spay and neuter, but cannot afford too. Something to think about when one is suggestion legislation. ( hope the link works) http://beyondbreed.com/the-cronuts-and-spayneuter-craze/

Words fail. I have her blog bookmarked and though she hadn't updated in 18 months or so, I would still check periodically. I loved her writing. I was a vet tech for many years, and would have had a blast working with her. Anything she wrote was informative AND entertaining, and that is a very hard combination to achieve. The world is a poorer place without her. Damn. Totally sucks.